Israel at war

[squeezer]

Until and unless a solution is created for the Israel Palestine conflict which essentially involves giving statehood to the Palestinians, and not more of the status quo, this conflict will continue to exact a huge human cost, that will only get worse. Which means and I am telling you right now in 2023, a future terror attack worse than October 7, is coming, unless a resolution is worked on. And it wont be an isolated attack. It will be in response to Israel's current response, and any other oppressive measures that they have planned for Gaza going forward, which am very sure of.

BTW anybody can edit a wikipedia article. I actually linked some very good documentaries earlier, watch them.

Any government or state can be evil. But most of the evil shit is always done by the most powerful (at any point in time). That has been the west for the last 300 years or so. So as a consequence a majority of evil shit we see today originated in the West.

Think about the majority of the most recent evil things that have happened in the last 300 years:

- Colonialism
- Slavery
- Segregation
- The Holocaust and other genocides such as the Armenian genocide etc.,
- Communism.
- WW 1 and 2
- Weapons of Mass Destruction
- Invasions of sovereign nations in the name of war on terror.
- Economic aggressions.

Where did those originate from? The east? No, it is the west. Now am not saying nothing evil came out of other parts of the world, including India. Of course they did. But the majority of evil shit came out of the west because of the actions of the most powerful people, who happen to be in the west.

I will also say simultaneously good things have also come from the west namely, democracy, scientific development and so on. But you cannot just see the good and ignore the bad. You have to unequivocally call it out.



Kudos to Piers for bringing Finkelstein on. Piers has learned by being unbiased he can actually rake up more views!

Finkelstein is going in circles and is full of shit. Ah, so grabbing the righties mantra about Wiki being fake information, interesting. So we are supposed to go by the biased links you posted and Hamas's version of history?? I see!

Your angst against the West is incredible and when I refer to the West I mainly mean the US but you want to lump Germany and every country now under NATO into the pot, whatever makes you happy. I would also venture to guess you are against Nato and its evil ways.

Go to the 52.00 mark and get a bit of facts for the soul.

 

[Frankfooter]

I don’t recall Ukrainians shooting up music festivals and taking children and elderly hostages

but it’s telling that you attempt to equal the two

Tell me how you justify this killing.
This was in the West Bank, not Gaza and not Hamas.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1727801681918730665

 

[squeezer]

I haven't yet watched Finkelstein's interview, so cannot comment on it. But watch his other interviews even before this conflict. It is also fact that anyone can edit Wikipedia. I can right now go and edit the page you linked. And I said I linked documentaries that were made by the History channel. Not by Hamas, unless you are claiming Hamas owns the History channel.

When you refer to the West - the west is not just the US, but all of Europe the Americas, Australia and New Zealand (even though Australia and New Zealand are geographically in the east). But sure, even with the US, plenty of those things I laid out applies. The point is not which western countries you are willing to consider but is what I called evil and having originated in the west, actually untrue? BTW I should have included Zionism as well. I forgot to. I edited my post just now. How could I leave that out in an Israel thread?!

You do realize that any and all edits must be approved. You cannot just go in and edit at will and it's in print, you know that right??

Here you go, facts before fiction or spins is the name of the game.

Wikipedia:Edit Approval - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Who wants to be the first to put Kautilya (aka Frankfooter) on ignore??

Should I do the honors??

 

[richaceg]

Are you that clueless?
Or are you going to try to justify war crimes by saying you hate Palestinians and Hamas so they deserved the war crimes and collective punishment?

I don't hate palestinians...i don't like Hamas...their terrorists...do you like Hamas?

 

[richaceg]

They are killing as many as they thought they could get away with.
Same as they do every time.
Israel kills until the US stops them.

They'd be killing a lot more if what you say is true...but keep going with your fantasy....

 

[richaceg]

Who wants to be the first to put Kautilya (aka Frankfooter) on ignore??

Should I do the honors??

Nah...this room will be boring with nobody to play with....

 

[richaceg]

Do you think Palestinians have the legal right to violently resist an occupation the UN has labelled 'illegal'?
The same right you give Ukrainians against a Russian occupation?

Palestinians don't violently resist...they protest....Hamas on the other hand violently murder people...you think that's legal?

 

[shack]

I've done it so many times I have link. Hamas, like Israel, should be investigated and charged for all war crimes including targeting civilians.

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/the-dark-side-of-roger-waters.829457/post-8127425

No mention of Oct. 7.

You have never condemned it.

What war crimes should Hamas be investigated for?

Talk about cowardly? That's a joke.

 

[basketcase]

Good luck and dream on that a one-state solution will happen but hey, you be you and whatever makes you sleep better at night. As for your version, I'd rather rely on a unclouded version of events which you can find here

History of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also, you always seem to have an angst against the Western world. They are always the evil ones in your eyes yet, here you are.

I love how these guys keep claiming to support Palestinian rights while demanding that Palestinians be forced into a One State peace they detest.

https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf

 

[shack]

That's not cancel culture.

Just like Oct. 7 was not a terror attack.

 

[basketcase]

... the atrocities committed by the Israelis, the motivations of the state of Israel etc.,...

Do you intentionally ignore the context of the atrocities committed by Arab and Palestinians in the same time? Do you intentionally ignore that more than half of Israeli Jews are in Israel because they were chased from their Arab homes due to violent antisemitism and no other country was willing to take them?

 

[basketcase]

Palestinians don't violently resist...they protest....Hamas on the other hand violently murder people...you think that's legal?

Franky keeps pretending that violent attacks are peaceful protest.

 

[shack]

Instead, if Hamas in the first week gave back all of the hostages and surrendered. Yes, unfortunately, the leaders would have to give up all their riches and lavish lifestyle but imagine how many babies and women would have been spared all this hell

TERB's KKK, don't really care about the women and children. They are using them to push their narrative the exact same way that Hamas is using them for shielding.

To these people, the Palestinians are nothing more than a renewable commodity.

 

[basketcase]

That must make you feel proud.
Arresting the head of a hospital.
Imagine the nerve of that guy treating Palestinians.

WHO on Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital: 'We only saw civilians'

A senior WHO official said staff had only seen civilians at the beleaguered Al-Shifa Hospital, while former Israeli PM Ehud Barak said that Israel - not Hamas - had constructed tunnels underneath it decades ago.

www.newarab.com

Anyone who believes that there was no Hamas military presence in, around, or under the hospital is either afraid of Hamas, need Hamas approval to be there (like the WHO), or is intentionally pushing a hateful agenda.

And damn right the hospital head should be questioned. I know you think all the Israeli videos are just Jewish lies but there is absolutely zero doubt that that Hamas was using the hospital. https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bytriajvt

 

[basketcase]

You know what else they detest? Being oppressed, and being violently dispossessed.

So you think they should be opressed in a different way? Nice.

Okay fine, a 2 state solution then. Oops that is not possible either!

Yes, that's not possible until Palestinian leadership accept the idea that the Jews there aren't going anywhere because they have nowhere else to be.

Then what is the solution?

How about what I've been saying forever; push BOTH sides into negotiating something that they can live with. Think about the Indian context. You've condemned the British presence and their decision to Partition India so why do you so desperately want to force your outside, elitist intentions on the people in Israel/Palestine?

No I don't ignore them. But the atrocities committed on the Arab side, are because of Israel's policies. ...

Holy shit you are desperate and completely avoiding history. It also shows a massive elitism refusing to believe Arab leaders and Palestinians can't be held accountable for their choices. And once more, the Arab and Palestinian leadership rejected the possibility of a Palestinian state repeatedly because they hated the idea of having Jewish neighbours more than they wanted their own state (to be more accurate, Arab and Palestinian leadership saw rejection as a great way to expand their own power base as can be seen with Jordan's invasion and annexation of the West bank)

BTW. The first major outbreak of violence was in 1919 when Arab leaders incited mobs to attack the long standing Jewish communities in Jerusalem and Hebron, communities that were established many centuries before any European Jews considered the concept of zionism. Was that because of Israeli policies?

 

[richaceg]

BTW. The first major outbreak of violence was in 1919 when Arab leaders incited mobs to attack the long standing Jewish communities in Jerusalem and Hebron, communities that were established many centuries before any European Jews considered the concept of zionism. Was that because of Israeli policies?

No...Kautliya, franky and their ilks only count the violence of 1948 and not about the attack by the arabs...just about after that when Israel won the war....that to them is where the violence started....

 

[mitchell76]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1727834074947940509

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1727834074947940509

Why isnt Trudeau freezing their bank accounts??

 

[Butler1000]

In what way will they be oppressed in a one state solution? With full citizenship? This statement of yours doesnt make sense.



Well, they did earlier, and Israel did not do anything to create a 2 state solution. So Israel has not behaved in good faith either. Heck didn't the Oslo Accords result in Israel's PM getting assassinated?



What elitism am I imposing? I am saying either, create a 2 state solution, or a 1 state solution. Like those are the 2 options! Both the Palestinians and the Israelis exist. So they can exist together in peace than apart, with all this violence. Now given Israel has taken so much of land already, I do not see a 2 state solution possible. I also see Israel, as the only viable state, as they have the structural, economic and military institutions. So in my opinion it is easier to give the Palestinians citizenship.



Well if we are going to talk about before 1948, then I disagree with UK's actions to even issue the Balfour declaration. The formation of Israel was done through colonial politics - those things are bound to cause sectarian violence. It isn't true that this sectarian violence had a precise starting point in 1919 either, but rather a culmination of events that involved Zionist movements and militias, colonial politics, Arab Nationalism, WW 1 etc.,

Now it is also true that the Arab and Palestinian leadership has been unreasonable, and that it led to the 1948 war, but 1967 was solely Israel's aggression. They created a narrative of self-defence and pre-emptive attacks, but the goal was to always steal Gaza and the West Bank. I think 1967 was the turning point in this conflict, that led to settlements, apartheid and the current oppression we see. So this is why I see it as Israel's fault regardless of Palestinian leadership's unreasonableness.

You continue to assume that peace is wanted. Now what is the solution if both sides don't want it, refuse to compromise, and continue to want to make war?