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The Dark Side of Roger Waters

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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where were you when this was happening Grandpa?
...
I don't know. Maybe at work?

It's pretty amazing that you are upset about Israel trying to arrest violent suspects while celebrating Hamas slaughtering concert-goers.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Attrocities?
...
Yes. Butchering 260 concert-goers is an atrocity. Kidnapping women and children, often stripping the women is an atrocity. Starting a war that you know do nothing other than kill mainly civilians on both sides is an atrocity. Launching thousands of unguided rockets towards civilian population centres is an atrocity. All your rights groups agree with me on this. So does the government of most of the Western, democratic world.

I know you have posted that you think all Jews are by definition legitimate targets but that's not sane.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Yes. Butchering 260 concert-goers is an atrocity. Kidnapping women and children, often stripping the women is an atrocity. Starting a war that you know do nothing other than kill mainly civilians on both sides is an atrocity. Launching thousands of unguided rockets towards civilian population centres is an atrocity. All your rights groups agree with me on this. So does the government of most of the Western, democratic world.

I know you have posted that you think all Jews are by definition legitimate targets but that's not sane.
All of those are in response to the 75 year apartheid occupation.
If you want the violence to end, then end apartheid and end the occupation.

That is the problem.

 

Adam_hadam

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Feb 26, 2008
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Wow that's a moronic stance. Do you really think it's strange that someone would criticize an attack that killed 600+ civilians in cold blood? And sorry but international pressure on both sides to negotiate peace is the only way forward.


p.s. Your post makes it seem like you want to join Hamas
Typing does nothing.
ps Your post makes it seem like you need to call this number 416 535-8501 , get the help you need
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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All of those are in response to the 75 year apartheid occupation.
...
You think butchering and beheading babies is a valid response? I know; you don't think Arabs are capable of morality and you just like watching the violence.

And keep on claiming that there's a 75 year occupation. All you are doing is proving you share Hamas' view that the only acceptable peace is a jew free one.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Typing does nothing.
ps Your post makes it seem like you need to call this number 416 535-8501 , get the help you need
You upset that I hate that Hamas launched a needless war just to butcher a few hundred Jewish civilians?

I know it's complicated but the purpose of a communication forum is to communicate. You must at least understand that a bit because you've taken time out of your day to complain that don't like Hamas terrorism.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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You think butchering and beheading babies is a valid response?
WTF is wrong with you that you would say such a thing.


And keep on claiming that there's a 75 year occupation. All you are doing is proving you share Hamas' view that the only acceptable peace is a jew free one.
You deny that Israel is occupying Palestine?
I guess that means you're admitting Palestine hasn't existed for a long time and there is only the one state, apartheid Israel.

End apartheid.
That is the only non violent way to peace left.

Your violence will not fix anything.
All you can offer is more death.

 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Frankfooter

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p.s. Israel has occupied the West Bank for 54 years.
Fine, I'll use those numbers.
Just read this Gideon Levy column for Haaretz.

Israel Can’t Imprison Two Million Gazans Without Paying a Cruel Price

Behind all this lies Israeli arrogance; the idea that we can do whatever we like, that we’ll never pay the price and be punished for it. We’ll carry on undisturbed.

We’ll arrest, kill, harass, dispossess and protect the settlers busy with their pogroms. We'll visit Joseph’s Tomb, Othniel’s Tomb and Joshua’s Altar in the Palestinian territories, and of course the Temple Mount – over 5,000 Jews on Sukkot alone.


We’ll fire at innocent people, take out people’s eyes and smash their faces, expel, confiscate, rob, grab people from their beds, carry out ethnic cleansing and of course continue with the unbelievable siege of the Gaza Strip, and everything will be all right.


We’ll build a terrifying obstacle around Gaza – the underground wall alone cost 3 billion shekels ($765 million) – and we’ll be safe. We’ll rely on the geniuses of the army's 8200 cyber-intelligence unit and on the Shin Bet security service agents who know everything. They’ll warn us in time.


We’ll transfer half an army from the Gaza border to the Hawara border in the West Bank, only to protect far-right lawmaker Zvi Sukkot and the settlers. And everything will be all right, both in Hawara and at the Erez crossing into Gaza.


It turns out that even the world's most sophisticated and expensive obstacle can be breached with a smoky old bulldozer when the motivation is great. This arrogant barrier can be crossed by bicycle and moped despite the billions poured into it and all the famous experts and fat-cat contractors.

We thought we’d continue to go down to Gaza, scatter a few crumbs in the form of tens of thousands of Israeli work permits – always contingent on good behavior – and still keep them in prison. We’ll make peace with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates and the Palestinians will be forgotten until they’re erased, as quite a few Israelis would like.


We’ll keep holding thousands of Palestinian prisoners, sometimes without trial, most of them political prisoners. And we won’t agree to discuss their release even after they've been in prison for decades.


We’ll tell them that only by force will their prisoners see freedom. We thought we would arrogantly keep rejecting any attempt at a diplomatic solution, only because we don’t want to deal with all that, and everything would continue that way forever.


Once again it was proved that this isn’t how it is. A few hundred armed Palestinians breached the barrier and invaded Israel in a way no Israeli imagined was possible. A few hundred people proved that it’s impossible to imprison 2 million people forever without paying a cruel price.

Just as the smoky old Palestinian bulldozer tore through the world’s smartest barrier Saturday, it tore away at Israel’s arrogance and complacency. And that’s also how it tore away at the idea that it’s enough to occasionally attack Gaza with suicide drones – and sell them to half the world – to maintain security.

On Saturday, Israel saw pictures it has never seen before. Palestinian vehicles patrolling its cities, bike riders entering through the Gaza gates. These pictures tear away at that arrogance. The Gaza Palestinians have decided they’re willing to pay any price for a moment of freedom. Is there any hope in that? No. Will Israel learn its lesson? No.

On Saturday they were already talking about wiping out entire neighborhoods in Gaza, about occupying the Strip and punishing Gaza “as it has never been punished before.” But Israel hasn’t stopped punishing Gaza since 1948, not for a moment.

After 75 years of abuse, the worse possible scenario awaits it once again. The threats of “flattening Gaza” prove only one thing: We haven’t learned a thing. The arrogance is here to stay, even though Israel is paying a high price once again.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu bears very great responsibility for what happened, and he must pay the price, but it didn’t start with him and it won’t end after he goes. We now have to cry bitterly for the Israeli victims, but we should also cry for Gaza.

Gaza, most of whose residents are refugees created by Israel. Gaza, which has never known a single day of freedom.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Do you think Hamas is justified in their chosen tactic of targeting civilians?
Neither side is justified in targeting or killing civilians.
Why do you keep claiming Israel has the right to kill civilians?

Israel dropped 6000 bombs on Gaza last night, in an area the size of Montreal.
Now they want 1 million people to flee. Israel wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

 

Adam_hadam

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2008
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You upset that I hate that Hamas launched a needless war just to butcher a few hundred Jewish civilians?

I know it's complicated but the purpose of a communication forum is to communicate. You must at least understand that a bit because you've taken time out of your day to complain that don't like Hamas terrorism.
No I'm not upset, I'm trying to give you the help you need. Did you call the number?
I can't believe how badly Israeli intel screwed up, lots of blood on the hands of Mossad.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
60,326
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No I'm not upset, I'm trying to give you the help you need. Did you call the number?
I can't believe how badly Israeli intel screwed up, lots of blood on the hands of Mossad.
I cant believe you're happy that Hamas was able to butcher a thousand civilians in cold blood.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,180
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Do you think Hamas is justified in their chosen tactic of targeting civilians?
I answer this question from you 2-3 times a day.
No, they are not justified in targeting civilians.

Then I ask you the same question.
Do you think Israel is justified in their chosen tactic of targeting civilians.

And you know what?
You never answer.
Because you do support targeting civilians.
You don't accept that Palestinians have basic human rights.
You don't accept that they have a right to live free lives.
You don't accept that international law applies to Israele.
You don't have a problem supporting apartheid.
 
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