What is your take on the TTC situation??

[tboy]

Fab, again I can sympathize with you but you're beginning to sound like one of those parents whose child can do no wrong. At no point in this thread have you acknowledged that the whole thing could have been avoided if your child hadn't fucked up.

As for being in school being mandatory. Yup, yer certainly right on that one. And how many kids have dropped out of school, skipped school, been expelled etc? More than 1 I tell you. That's why hey, what a novel idea, they have STUDENT ID and the only way to get it is to, gasp, BE IN SCHOOL.

"I can assure you that harassing our youth on the ttc (PUBLIC TRANSPORT) or trying to kick them off for such a minor infraction as "not presenting a student card", especially when they are visibly young, can only lead to something bad. "

You're over dramatizing the situation. You make it sound like there are child molesters in the thousands just waiting to pounce on your princess. Now if this was NYC and she was in harlem or Jane/Finch, I'd say you have a point. But face it dude, Toronto is a pretty safe place to live....

 

[Fabulous]

And how is anyone supposed to know that this or any child is indeed 14 and attending school? They could be 17 or 18 based on looks alone. The card prevents guesswork. I know of people in their late teens who can pass for pre-pubescent at need. And many early teens can get by as being of legal drinking age.



Enforcing the rules is not harassment. Not paying proper fare or providing proper identification is not a minor infraction.



Local merchants are one option that is low risk. Pay phones (no coin necessary to call the operator) are another. I know of children much younger than 14 who travel the TTC and are well-versed in options should they be stranded.

Ok if it's not a minor infraction what is it than? should we fingerprint them? mugshots? lock them up????

ttc is public transport, our tax dollars pay for it, ttc was the one trying to STRAND HER, that's my point. IN CASE OF EMERGENCY - TTC SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTING TO STRAND THE YOUTH NO MATTER WHAT AGE!!!

 

[Southern_Knight]

Ok if it's not a minor infraction what is it than? should we fingerprint them? mugshots? lock them up????

ttc is public transport, our tax dollars pay for it, ttc was the one trying to STRAND HER, that's my point. IN CASE OF EMERGENCY - TTC SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTING TO STRAND THE YOUTH NO MATTER WHAT AGE!!!

No, denial of service is sufficient.

Our tax dollars pay for PART of the TTC. Fee for service pays for the rest.

 

[Fabulous]

Fab, again I can sympathize with you but you're beginning to sound like one of those parents whose child can do no wrong. At no point in this thread have you acknowledged that the whole thing could have been avoided if your child hadn't fucked up.

As for being in school being mandatory. Yup, yer certainly right on that one. And how many kids have dropped out of school, skipped school, been expelled etc? More than 1 I tell you. That's why hey, what a novel idea, they have STUDENT ID and the only way to get it is to, gasp, BE IN SCHOOL.

"I can assure you that harassing our youth on the ttc (PUBLIC TRANSPORT) or trying to kick them off for such a minor infraction as "not presenting a student card", especially when they are visibly young, can only lead to something bad. "

You're over dramatizing the situation. You make it sound like there are child molesters in the thousands just waiting to pounce on your princess. Now if this was NYC and she was in harlem or Jane/Finch, I'd say you have a point. But face it dude, Toronto is a pretty safe place to live....

FINALLY you are getting it right, my child does NO wrong!!!! None of this was HER fault! Why - cause it was MY FAULT. You know in life, life happens, we got up late that day and we were rushing to get ready. I said let's go, let's go I am driving you to school, hurry up we gotta go. I rushed her, (crucify me, I sinned) She grabbed her backpack and off we went. Dropped her off at school and went about my daily tasks, the whole day not realizing that she forgot her purse. (wanna sententce me to life?)

I am not over dramatizing - it's clear you have NO ONE PRECIOUS IN YOUR LIFE, and obviously never given birth - yes you can stop calling me dude, now. I've told you long time ago I have no dick!

You don't have to be at Jane and Finch to run into criminals or people with bad intentions, seems they are everywhere, even in the least expected places. Go figure.

 

[tboy]

Dudette

1) how was the TTC driver trying to STRAND her?
2) How did he know it was an emergency? Was she bleeding? Did someone in your family die? Did she have to catch a plane?
3) I am sure she is the FIRST person to ever try that (paying a lesser fare) so I can see your point, he should have let her slide because hey, no one every tried that before....
4) Lock them up, you're being dramatic again. Did you take drama classes in college? Why is not paying the correct fare not a minor infraction? I will tell you why, that is the main business the TTC is in: providing transportation for a fee. THat is their only real revenue source (other than subsidies). Did you know that if you try to get on the TTC without paying and get caught you'd probably be charged with theft or trespassing? This is no different than trying to steal a candy bar from a variety store.

Here's another example for you: You go grocery shopping for say, coke that is on sale for $2.00 for a 12 pack but you need a coupon. I bet if you forgot your coupon the cashier wouldn't give you the discount...face it: student fares are discounted to give students a cheap way to get to school and as an incentive to stay in school. Without proper ID you don't get the discount. END OF STORY

According to you, if the person using student tickets doesn't have ID, he should let everyone on who uses the discounted ticket? If, according to you, he should do that then why bother with the time and expense of having to issue student ID?

 

[xdog]

Another over-protective parent.

This is the type of person we deal with on a daily basis. As for the Bay's customer service, will they let you leave the store without paying? Possibly in an emergency? Let's all be happy that the poor defenceless girl wasn't raped by one of Toronto's pedophiles. Why would you let your child travel without adult supervision in such a dangerous and violent city?
What you need isn't a dick, but some balls. Grow up honey.

X

 

[booboobear]

. Also, just because someone is 14 does not entitle them to a student fare.
By the way, if you went to the Bay to purchase a TV, but forgot to bring your Bay card; would you tell the cashier not to worry because you have one at home.

Before criticizing someone, walk in their shoes for a day.

As for people who want drivers to use their discretion, our union has asked the TTC to write out our job description and what it entails. Are we supposed to enfore fares or not? What if the driver lets somebody on without paying and someone who previously paid is now upset with the driver because he now feels that he shouldn't have to pay.

I guess all girls who look 14 are really not students they are working mothers trying to cheat the TTC . Your attitude is exactly why people only take the ttc WHEN THEY HAVE TO . You ask us to walk in your shoes how about walking in the shoes of the thousands you inconvienced. Next you go on to list your grievances , you know what, we all work and we all have complaints why do you think we should care about yours you don't care about ours or the trouble you cause.

 

[Svend]

As for making public transit free, sorry dude, we don't live in a communist country. Here's we have to pay for what services or goods we use. Already the public transit system costs the various governments millions and there is no way they can foot the entire bill.

Why not - they foot the bill for most highways, public schools, libraries, hospitals, airports, bikepaths, canals, docks etc. This isn't a communist idea, do you pay a toll when you use the 401? You pay a portion in your gas tax, but not nearly enough so non drivers subsidize the rest. As a society, there are many costs that we agree to share because it makes them more efficient.

 

[red]

Dudette

1) how was the TTC driver trying to STRAND her?
2) How did he know it was an emergency? Was she bleeding? Did someone in your family die? Did she have to catch a plane?
3) I am sure she is the FIRST person to ever try that (paying a lesser fare) so I can see your point, he should have let her slide because hey, no one every tried that before....
4) Lock them up, you're being dramatic again. Did you take drama classes in college? Why is not paying the correct fare not a minor infraction? I will tell you why, that is the main business the TTC is in: providing transportation for a fee. THat is their only real revenue source (other than subsidies). Did you know that if you try to get on the TTC without paying and get caught you'd probably be charged with theft or trespassing? This is no different than trying to steal a candy bar from a variety store.

Here's another example for you: You go grocery shopping for say, coke that is on sale for $2.00 for a 12 pack but you need a coupon. I bet if you forgot your coupon the cashier wouldn't give you the discount...face it: student fares are discounted to give students a cheap way to get to school and as an incentive to stay in school. Without proper ID you don't get the discount. END OF STORY

According to you, if the person using student tickets doesn't have ID, he should let everyone on who uses the discounted ticket? If, according to you, he should do that then why bother with the time and expense of having to issue student ID?

She was actually paying the correct fare. she forgot her student card, and paid the student fare.

 

[slowandeasy]

And how is anyone supposed to know that this or any child is indeed 14 and attending school? They could be 17 or 18 based on looks alone. The card prevents guesswork. I know of people in their late teens who can pass for pre-pubescent at need. And many early teens can get by as being of legal drinking age.

Enforcing the rules is not harassment. Not paying proper fare or providing proper identification is not a minor infraction.

Local merchants are one option that is low risk. Pay phones (no coin necessary to call the operator) are another. I know of children much younger than 14 who travel the TTC and are well-versed in options should they be stranded.

Obviously you did not read all the replies to this thread..... Perhaps you should go back and peruse them...

While the TTC drivers are supposed to enforce the rules, I would hope that they are not devoid of common sense.... Booting a young girl off a bus/streetcar when she has told you she has not wallet, money or ID is idiotic
I don't know what the difference is between the student fare and the regular fare, but it is probably not more than $1. Putting a young girl in danger by making her walk home for $1 is not in the best interest of the TTC or society.

As far as the pay phones etc..... most young people face similar problems when going to store/business owners when they ask for things...

More importantly why should we download the problem to the independent business owners...we pay taxes that fund the TTC, should we not look to them first??

Finally, as far as Fabulous is concerned he obviously has an axe to grind with the TTC and is making this out to be more than it is... In fairness to TTC workers, most of my experiences have been very positive.. the Drivers face the most difficult jobs....they are always being pestered by school children and often become jaded as they hear so many sob stories from kids that they don't believe any of them...

People like Fabulous just make their jobs more difficult... If everything that Fabulous says is true, then this driver made a poor decision... however, the lesson that Fabulous is teaching his child is pretty crappy..... but unfortunately, it's standard for what people believe these days...

 

[Svend]

As far as the janitors, the union should get smacked for this nonsense. Their shift should be at night when they can clean more efficiently.

 

[slowandeasy]

Ok if it's not a minor infraction what is it than? should we fingerprint them? mugshots? lock them up????

ttc is public transport, our tax dollars pay for it, ttc was the one trying to STRAND HER, that's my point. IN CASE OF EMERGENCY - TTC SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTING TO STRAND THE YOUTH NO MATTER WHAT AGE!!!

How do they know that this is an emergency situation??? How do they know that they are not getting conned??? Do you know how many times/day a TTC driver hears similar stories???

Obviously you do not get it... this was not a personal attack on you or your child... the TTC driver does not know you or your child, and he/she does not have you or the school on speed dial so that they can confirm the childs story...... on a regular basis, the TTC drivers hear the same type of story and probably get sick of it...

When we were kids, we did the same things.....

Is is right that your daughter went thru this??? No..... but stop making a crime out of this..

 

[slowandeasy]

Dudette

1) 4) Lock them up, you're being dramatic again. Did you take drama classes in college?

Nope she was born with it....

 

[tboy]

Why not - they foot the bill for most highways, public schools, libraries, hospitals, airports, bikepaths, canals, docks etc. This isn't a communist idea, do you pay a toll when you use the 401? You pay a portion in your gas tax, but not nearly enough so non drivers subsidize the rest. As a society, there are many costs that we agree to share because it makes them more efficient.

Sorry Svend, have you not been reading the news lately? The Ontario and Federal governments have an enormous surplus of tax money from the collection of the triple taxing on automotive fuels. That was one of the big beefs with the Fiberals is that they were collecting all this money yet not spending it on the services it is intended for ie: roads, bridges, etc.

BTW: just an head's up, I'm all for expansion of public transit but certainly NOT in it's present form. I seriously think all motorized (fuel powered) vehicles should be banned from the downtown core. I believe a boundary of the DVP in the east, bathurst or spadina in the west, and Eg or St Clair in the north should be the boundary. I also believe there should be no exits/on ramps off the gardiner to the core. The whole area should be accessed through monorails, subway, street cars and els. This is NOT a new concept either. Just think of the underground access one has now. From union station you can already travel to the eaton centre without going outside. Nothing wrong with expanding that concept.

I think our dependency on POVs has to change else we're fuct.

 

[Fabulous]

Dudette

1) how was the TTC driver trying to STRAND her?
2) How did he know it was an emergency? Was she bleeding? Did someone in your family die? Did she have to catch a plane?
3) I am sure she is the FIRST person to ever try that (paying a lesser fare) so I can see your point, he should have let her slide because hey, no one every tried that before....
4) Lock them up, you're being dramatic again. Did you take drama classes in college? Why is not paying the correct fare not a minor infraction? I will tell you why, that is the main business the TTC is in: providing transportation for a fee. THat is their only real revenue source (other than subsidies). Did you know that if you try to get on the TTC without paying and get caught you'd probably be charged with theft or trespassing? This is no different than trying to steal a candy bar from a variety store.

Here's another example for you: You go grocery shopping for say, coke that is on sale for $2.00 for a 12 pack but you need a coupon. I bet if you forgot your coupon the cashier wouldn't give you the discount...face it: student fares are discounted to give students a cheap way to get to school and as an incentive to stay in school. Without proper ID you don't get the discount. END OF STORY

According to you, if the person using student tickets doesn't have ID, he should let everyone on who uses the discounted ticket? If, according to you, he should do that then why bother with the time and expense of having to issue student ID?

She had a student ticket (MAJORITY OF THE FARE), she was getting on in the vacinity of the school, she looks like a child (it's not my fault the ttc driver could not use his best judgement to distiguish between a child and an adult, if they can't maybe ttc should provide them training for it), She already deposited, PAYED her fare, now the ttc driver was trying to kick her off without REFUND, even after she clearly explained her situation (forgetting her purse etc, in a polite manner, and pleaded with the driver for compassion) If the driver succeeded in kicking her off she would have been STRANDED. The ttc is sepposed to be "the better way" not "the worst way".

your coke annology doesn't make any sense, again one is a NEED, your comparison is a WANT. The store owner is not a public servant.

She wasn't trying to steal anything! so chill! She didn't have the extra dollar and obviously that was the emergency. She did the right thing by staying on, as a child she should not have to be put in the position by the ttc driver, of begging strangers for the dollar, yes the ttc should excuse that or find a better way to deal with the situation. Because these are our children and it takes a village to raise a child. You are obviously not part of that village and you are failing to understand or even open your mind to the possibilty of the danger children now days face, whether it be on the ttc or elsewhere. With adult bullies such as yourself, this place would degenarate to a city full of selfish, money hungry, full of hate people.


Oh and the other thing is if the ttc wants to be all law abiding and follow the rules and laws to the tee, than they should be the first once to live BY EXAMPLE. Yesterday they committed a crime, by having an illegal strike that caused chaos throughout Toronto. Maybe somebody should kick them off.

 

[slowandeasy]

As far as the janitors, the union should get smacked for this nonsense. Their shift should be at night when they can clean more efficiently.

Can you blame the Janitors/maintenance people?? Would you like it if your company changed your work hours to midnights?? On top of that alot of work is not done in the day times as it is difficult when people are rushing around in the stations... So you don't do as much work.....

Of course it makes more sense from the managment's perspective.

But if Management of the TTC really wants to trim the fat and become more efficient, it should not start with front line maintenance workers... it should start with management!!!!

 

[xdog]

ttc fares

Just because someone is 14 does not entitle them to a student discount. I would never bother someone about this. In fact, I don't bother anyone over fares. I also don't generalize about all customers like some people who generalize about TTC workers. Who did I inconvenience? I posted because I thought that some people would appreciate a response from a TTC employee. I explained that the union asked for job description to be written down in order to avoid situations like this. In this case, the driver did as he was required to do, but still a bunch of people are criticising him. Wouldn't it be better if everyone knew what was to be expected in this situation?
Hey BooBOO, I do care about complaints and that is why I responded. Don't let your hate of the TTC override your common sense. By the way, what trouble did I cause. Would it be fair for me to come to your workplace and abuse you because I didn't like how one of your co-workers treated me last week?
By the way FAB, what village to you live in? Idiotopia? Quit watching Dr.Phil and pick your kid up at school. As for the illegal strike, you should be more understanding. Maybe those workers forgot their employee passes at home and weren't allowed to enter the workplace. lol


X

 

[slowandeasy]

By the way FAB, what village to you live in? Idiotopia? Quit watching Dr.Phil and pick your kid up at school. As for the illegal strike, you should be more understanding. Maybe those workers forgot their employee passes at home and weren't allowed to enter the workplace. lol


X

Now that's funny!!!!! Do you mind if I use the "what village do you live in? Idiotopia?"... you might want to edit that "to" and make it a "do"...

Xdog..good insight from the TTC side......

 

[revolver]

FINALLY you are getting it right, my child does NO wrong!!!! None of this was HER fault! Why - cause it was MY FAULT.

So then you are blaming the driver and TTC in general for your mistake.

The driver was not at fault here. He was following the rules which state that in order to use a student fare the appropriate ID must be presented. His job is to collect the proper fare and ensure that rule is followed. In all liklihood this driver is familiar with your daughter or at least the crowd she rides with. Perhaps he's heard that story many times before and no longer believes it. Perhaps your daughter isn't the angel she is at home when she is out with her peer group and has tried this before. Kids do this sometimes to look cool in front of their friends or just for the thrill of getting away with something. Drivers get this situation all the time.

Denying her a ride in daytime Toronto is not an emergency situation. He doesn't know she is stranded, doesn't know she is an angel and probably thinks she's just trying to pull a fast one on him. Different story if this had happened at 2 am and she was travelling alone.

So how did this situation get resolved. Did she get her ride? Did someone pay a fare for her? She was travelling with friends, no? Were they all pennyless or couldn't they have come up with one fare between them. The difference is only a little over a dollar.

 

[xdog]

Go ahead Slow

I haven't trademaked yet.

x