Israel at war

[mellowjello]

Oh

This conflict and the current Israeli policies are square 1.

Sorry, read it wrong.
You think it would have gotten to this point if Israel was dealing in good faith? Israel was criticizing the Palestinians for not coming to the table to negotiate while they had military occupation in Gaza, and settlers were stealing land and forcibly removing Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank, under the protection of Israeli soldiers. The treatment of Palestinians by those zombie settlers was barbaric, spitting and cussing out women and children through prison fencing, with soldiers standing by to make sure the settlers were safe.
You think getting someone in to negotiate under these circumstances, is going to solve the problem?

 

[Frankfooter]

.and all Hamas did was justified by claims of apartheid...."open air prison"....

No, rich, there is no justification for targeting civilians.
Take Israel and Hamas to the Hague.

And now take Biden too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1714654574533886304

 

[Frankfooter]

Its sad, but inevitable. I believe I have been balanced. You on the other hand cannot even bring yourself to call terrorists, terrorists.

You have not been balanced at all.
You admit the root issues are the apartheid occupation and refuse to admit that must be addressed first before any other solution.
You call for death to Hamas and nothing for the Israeli government but to face an election.

That is very biased.

 

[Frankfooter]

So it may not be fair, as most things aren't, but it is them that needs to a) Acknowledge Israel as a state which will be a huge step forward, in nullifying Israel's claims of their intent to genocide Jews and b) Adopt peaceful resistance and dialogue. That would turn the world in their favour.

But for that to happen, the Hamas needs to go. Either by laying down their arms and surrendering (which I don't think they will do) or by being removed by the Israelis (or atleast leaving them severely crippled).

Of course you don't say Israel has to acknowledge that Palestine is a state or that Palestinians have human rights which must be respected.
And you claim to be balanced.

The NDP has called for a ceasefire and used the word 'genocide'.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1714346068282921037

 

[richaceg]

No, rich, there is no justification for targeting civilians.
Take Israel and Hamas to the Hague.

And now take Biden too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1714654574533886304

So the only peace for Palestine is if there's no Hamas and no Israel is that your solution?

 

[Frankfooter]

So the only peace for Palestine is if there's no Hamas and no Israel is that your solution?

No, rich.

For peace to happen we must change the existing one state apartheid solution into a one state solution with equal rights.
End apartheid, end the occupation and give all Palestinians living under Israeli rule equal rights.

All the Israeli supporters repeatedly point to how 'Israeli Arabs' have full rights and can live peacefully with Israeli Jews but refuse to take the next step and realize that it also proves both sides can live together if they have full human rights.

Equality is the answer.
Not violence.

That's the message of BDS

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1713551569096986677

 

[mellowjello]

If Hamas released the hostages and agreed to step down and never run for power again for the sake of the civilians it has placed in danger with its barbaric actions, do you not believe it would end the bombing and hopefully lead towards a long term resolution?

It might stop the bombing but I don't think it would be a long term solution. I believe the lopsided advantage Israel has and the conditions they would subject the Palestinians to and expect them to negotiate under would start the whole process again.
How about if Hamas is removed, and Israel ends military occupation in Gaza and settlers are removed from Palestinian land in the Bank, would you be ok with that. I think that would be a start.

 

[richaceg]

No, rich.

For peace to happen we must change the existing one state apartheid solution into a one state solution with equal rights.
End apartheid, end the occupation and give all Palestinians living under Israeli rule equal rights.

All the Israeli supporters repeatedly point to how 'Israeli Arabs' have full rights and can live peacefully with Israeli Jews but refuse to take the next step and realize that it also proves both sides can live together if they have full human rights.

Equality is the answer.
Not violence.

That's the message of BDS

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1713551569096986677

That's a lot of bullshit to take since History has proven palestinians don't want to live with jews....Voting Hamas solidifies this...
Jews can live with palestinians and arabs, there are about 19% living in Israel...but 0% jews are in Gaza...
you want the solution, root out the cause of the problem...you're looking in the wrong direction....

 

[Frankfooter]

No I did not say the root cause was apartheid and occupation. I did not ever point to root causes, because such things do not exist in this conflict. This conflict is very much a two way street. A lot of the apartheid, occupation, segregation, checkpoints and the like are also counter terrorism and law enforcement action - remember how the wall reduced suicide bombings? Yeah, it is a two way street.

This particular terror attack was entirely Hamas' doing. There is no other cause for this particular terror attack except for Hamas' ideology.

And yes, I call for Hamas to be neutralized because they need to go for something good to happen for the Palestinians.

So you argue that the occupation and apartheid is justified so therefore everything is the fault of the people being occupied resisting.

 

[Frankfooter]

Palestine is not YET a state though. It's legal status is disputed. Israel on the other hand is an established state, and for Hamas or anyone from Palestine to not recognize Israel as a state, means it plays into the narrative that they want to genocide the Jews.

Yet not a single Israel supporter on this board can tell you where the borders of Israel sit.
Because to do so is either admit the occupation is illegal or admit that they support apartheid.

So none can provide a map

Meanwhile you still argue the same anti Muslim schtick you post in the Modi threads. Here you argue that Muslim Palestinians do not deserve human rights.

 

[Frankfooter]

That's a lot of bullshit to take since History has proven palestinians don't want to live with jews....

No, Israeli Arabs are able to live with Israeli Jews inside the 1967 borders.
History, and modern history, shows they will live in peace with even just almost full human rights.

 

[richaceg]

No, Israeli Arabs are able to live with Israeli Jews inside the 1967 borders.
History, and modern history, shows they will live in peace with even just almost full human rights.

Yes why is that? Israeli can live alongside muslim arabs but somehow Jews are non existent in Gaza....

 

[PeteOsborne]

So none can provide a map

Here is the map you asked for.

 

[xmontrealer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1714405437980758464

So we still don't know who actually fired the rocket at the hospital in Gaza.

According to Israel it wasn't them, and according to Biden and US intelligence it was an Islamic Jihad missile that possibly misfired.

As I said before, Its hard to believe Israel would carry out such an attack on a hospital on the eve of Biden's coming to the Middle East in the hopes of some progress towards a diplomatic solution.

It is not that hard to believe that:

1. It was an Islamic Jihad missile intended for Israel that misfired.

or

2. It was an intentional ploy by Islamic Jihad to derail any peace talks that might arise from Biden's visit, and drive other Arab leaders from the talks.

If it was # 1 it was just another tragic consequence of the never-ending hostilities.

If it was # 2, I have to say that calling the Islamic Jihad perpetrators "animals", as somebody once said, is an insult to actual animals.

I was happy to see that Biden managed to get Israel to agree to opening up the supply lines of much needed necessities of life to Gaza. The condition being that none goes to Hamas , and all goes to the general population of Gaza. Not sure how they'll keep the supplies out of the hands of Hamas though. I would have thought that Biden could have forced the release of non-Israeli hostages at least, in return...

 

[richaceg]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1714696624331436507

Hands down GOAT POTUS according to the left....the left decays from within....

 

[richaceg]

So we still don't know who actually fired the rocket at the hospital in Gaza.

According to Israel it wasn't them, and according to Biden and US intelligence it was an Islamic Jihad missile that possibly misfired.

As I said before, Its hard to believe Israel would carry out such an attack on a hospital on the eve of Biden's coming to the Middle East in the hopes of some progress towards a diplomatic solution.

It is not that hard to believe that:

1. It was an Islamic Jihad missile intended for Israel that misfired.

or

2. It was an intentional ploy by Islamic Jihad to derail any peace talks that might arise from Biden's visit, and drive other Arab leaders from the talks.

If it was # 1 it was just another tragic consequence of the never-ending hostilities.

If it was # 2, I have to say that calling the Islamic Jihad perpetrators "animals", as somebody once said, is an insult to actual animals.

I was happy to see that Biden managed to get Israel to agree to opening up the supply lines of much needed necessities of life to Gaza. The condition being that none goes to Hamas , and all goes to the general population of Gaza. Not sure how they'll keep the supplies out of the hands of Hamas though. I would have thought that Biden could have forced the release of non-Israeli hostages at least, in return...

Israel agreeing shows you ceasefire is part of what they can consider....the question is, will Hamas consider ceasefire since, it would mean, Jews will live for another day....

 

[Butler1000]

Oh
Sorry, read it wrong.
You think it would have gotten to this point if Israel was dealing in good faith? Israel was criticizing the Palestinians for not coming to the table to negotiate while they had military occupation in Gaza, and settlers were stealing land and forcibly removing Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank, under the protection of Israeli soldiers. The treatment of Palestinians by t.ose zombie settlers was barbaric, spitting and cussing out women and children through prison fencing, with soldiers standing by to make sure the settlers were safe.
You think getting someone in to negotiate under these circumstances, is going to solve the problem?

Yes. Because Hamas and Hezbollah do not exist to negotiate. In fact they are there and funded to specifically disrupt negotiations, steal aid, create martyrs, and kill Jews. That's their job.

 

[Frankfooter]

Yes why is that? Israeli can live alongside muslim arabs but somehow Jews are non existent in Gaza....

I told you.
Give them equal rights and they will in peace with you.

 

[Frankfooter]

Lying and gaslighting again. No, I said, it was a two way street. And a terrorist attack is not resistance.



I do admit there is occupation.

And you are lying and gaslighting again.

I did not say that Palestinians do not deserve human rights.

I said, that to not recognize Israel, means, it plays into the genocide the Jews narrative, which automatically delegitimizes Palestinian statehood.

So considering they are in a disadvantageous position, the Palestinians should a) Recognize Israel and b) Engage in peaceful negotiations. Recognizing Israel will be a huge blow to Israeli propaganda about Palestinian intent to genocide them and will turn the world in their favour, unlike now, where Israel can use holocaust rhetoric to deny statehood. How can you not see this?

They recognized Israel years ago.
Fat lot of good it did.

They signed and abided by the Oslo Accords, 20 years of peace talks.
Fat lot of good it did.

Got any other ideas?

 

[Frankfooter]

Here is the map you asked for.
View attachment 267619

Palestine has been wiped from that map.
All that is left is apartheid Israel.

Which means this should change into a campaign for the end of apartheid and equal rights.

This radical act of return points to the post-Zionist future we should envision that will bring liberation to all.

Liberation for us means dismantling the structures of Zionist settler colonialism and apartheid and addressing the inequalities and injustices it has inflicted on us, the indigenous population of Palestine, over the past 100 years.

Liberation for us aims to transform the relationship between Palestinians and Israelis into one based on total equality and justice. The settler society is expected to abandon all colonial privileges and display real willingness to accept responsibility for past crimes and injustices. The compromise that indigenous Palestinians are expected to offer is to accept settlers as equal citizens in the new state between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

This is the path to peace and security, and the international community, which has long accepted Israel’s war crimes against the Palestinians and has even been complicit in them, will have to embrace it.

Having learned nothing from history, US President Joe Biden made it clear the day Palestinian fighters crossed through the barbed wire to Israel that he is fully behind Israel, giving its army the green light to commit more war crimes against the civilians of Gaza.