Toronto Passions

Israel at war

xmontrealer

Well-known member
May 23, 2005
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So we still don't know who actually fired the rocket at the hospital in Gaza.

According to Israel it wasn't them, and according to Biden and US intelligence it was an Islamic Jihad missile that possibly misfired.

As I said before, Its hard to believe Israel would carry out such an attack on a hospital on the eve of Biden's coming to the Middle East in the hopes of some progress towards a diplomatic solution.

It is not that hard to believe that:

1. It was an Islamic Jihad missile intended for Israel that misfired.

or

2. It was an intentional ploy by Islamic Jihad to derail any peace talks that might arise from Biden's visit, and drive other Arab leaders from the talks.

If it was # 1 it was just another tragic consequence of the never-ending hostilities.

If it was # 2, I have to say that calling the Islamic Jihad perpetrators "animals", as somebody once said, is an insult to actual animals.

I was happy to see that Biden managed to get Israel to agree to opening up the supply lines of much needed necessities of life to Gaza. The condition being that none goes to Hamas , and all goes to the general population of Gaza. Not sure how they'll keep the supplies out of the hands of Hamas though. I would have thought that Biden could have forced the release of non-Israeli hostages at least, in return...
 
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richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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So we still don't know who actually fired the rocket at the hospital in Gaza.

According to Israel it wasn't them, and according to Biden and US intelligence it was an Islamic Jihad missile that possibly misfired.

As I said before, Its hard to believe Israel would carry out such an attack on a hospital on the eve of Biden's coming to the Middle East in the hopes of some progress towards a diplomatic solution.

It is not that hard to believe that:

1. It was an Islamic Jihad missile intended for Israel that misfired.

or

2. It was an intentional ploy by Islamic Jihad to derail any peace talks that might arise from Biden's visit, and drive other Arab leaders from the talks.

If it was # 1 it was just another tragic consequence of the never-ending hostilities.

If it was # 2, I have to say that calling the Islamic Jihad perpetrators "animals", as somebody once said, is an insult to actual animals.

I was happy to see that Biden managed to get Israel to agree to opening up the supply lines of much needed necessities of life to Gaza. The condition being that none goes to Hamas , and all goes to the general population of Gaza. Not sure how they'll keep the supplies out of the hands of Hamas though. I would have thought that Biden could have forced the release of non-Israeli hostages at least, in return...
Israel agreeing shows you ceasefire is part of what they can consider....the question is, will Hamas consider ceasefire since, it would mean, Jews will live for another day....
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Oh
Sorry, read it wrong.
You think it would have gotten to this point if Israel was dealing in good faith? Israel was criticizing the Palestinians for not coming to the table to negotiate while they had military occupation in Gaza, and settlers were stealing land and forcibly removing Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank, under the protection of Israeli soldiers. The treatment of Palestinians by t.ose zombie settlers was barbaric, spitting and cussing out women and children through prison fencing, with soldiers standing by to make sure the settlers were safe.
You think getting someone in to negotiate under these circumstances, is going to solve the problem?
Yes. Because Hamas and Hezbollah do not exist to negotiate. In fact they are there and funded to specifically disrupt negotiations, steal aid, create martyrs, and kill Jews. That's their job.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Lying and gaslighting again. No, I said, it was a two way street. And a terrorist attack is not resistance.



I do admit there is occupation.

And you are lying and gaslighting again.

I did not say that Palestinians do not deserve human rights.

I said, that to not recognize Israel, means, it plays into the genocide the Jews narrative, which automatically delegitimizes Palestinian statehood.

So considering they are in a disadvantageous position, the Palestinians should a) Recognize Israel and b) Engage in peaceful negotiations. Recognizing Israel will be a huge blow to Israeli propaganda about Palestinian intent to genocide them and will turn the world in their favour, unlike now, where Israel can use holocaust rhetoric to deny statehood. How can you not see this?
They recognized Israel years ago.
Fat lot of good it did.

They signed and abided by the Oslo Accords, 20 years of peace talks.
Fat lot of good it did.

Got any other ideas?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Here is the map you asked for.
View attachment 267619
Palestine has been wiped from that map.
All that is left is apartheid Israel.

Which means this should change into a campaign for the end of apartheid and equal rights.

This radical act of return points to the post-Zionist future we should envision that will bring liberation to all.

Liberation for us means dismantling the structures of Zionist settler colonialism and apartheid and addressing the inequalities and injustices it has inflicted on us, the indigenous population of Palestine, over the past 100 years.

Liberation for us aims to transform the relationship between Palestinians and Israelis into one based on total equality and justice. The settler society is expected to abandon all colonial privileges and display real willingness to accept responsibility for past crimes and injustices. The compromise that indigenous Palestinians are expected to offer is to accept settlers as equal citizens in the new state between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

This is the path to peace and security, and the international community, which has long accepted Israel’s war crimes against the Palestinians and has even been complicit in them, will have to embrace it.

Having learned nothing from history, US President Joe Biden made it clear the day Palestinian fighters crossed through the barbed wire to Israel that he is fully behind Israel, giving its army the green light to commit more war crimes against the civilians of Gaza.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,516
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So we still don't know who actually fired the rocket at the hospital in Gaza.

According to Israel it wasn't them, and according to Biden and US intelligence it was an Islamic Jihad missile that possibly misfired.

As I said before, Its hard to believe Israel would carry out such an attack on a hospital on the eve of Biden's coming to the Middle East in the hopes of some progress towards a diplomatic solution.

It is not that hard to believe that:

1. It was an Islamic Jihad missile intended for Israel that misfired.

or

2. It was an intentional ploy by Islamic Jihad to derail any peace talks that might arise from Biden's visit, and drive other Arab leaders from the talks.

If it was # 1 it was just another tragic consequence of the never-ending hostilities.

If it was # 2, I have to say that calling the Islamic Jihad perpetrators "animals", as somebody once said, is an insult to actual animals.

I was happy to see that Biden managed to get Israel to agree to opening up the supply lines of much needed necessities of life to Gaza. The condition being that none goes to Hamas , and all goes to the general population of Gaza. Not sure how they'll keep the supplies out of the hands of Hamas though. I would have thought that Biden could have forced the release of non-Israeli hostages at least, in return...
These doctors held a press conference after the attack where they said there were two warning shells fired and they told the IDF they couldn't leave.

 

xmontrealer

Well-known member
May 23, 2005
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These doctors held a press conference after the attack where they said there were two warning shells fired and they told the IDF they couldn't leave.

Is it not possible that the IDF decided to not fire missiles at the hospital given what they were told by the doctors?

As I said before, I have no idea who did what. But I find it hard to believe the IDF would do it given Biden's impending visit. It makes no sense politically.

Maybe one day we'll find out the truth, but I really don't trust the media in general on either side, so probably not...
 
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squeezer

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Jan 8, 2010
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It might stop the bombing but I don't think it would be a long term solution. I believe the lopsided advantage Israel has and the conditions they would subject the Palestinians to and expect them to negotiate under would start the whole process again.
How about if Hamas is removed, and Israel ends military occupation in Gaza and settlers are removed from Palestinian land in the Bank, would you be ok with that. I think that would be a start.
The first step is Hamas removed and the hostages returned. If this isn't accomplished I don't see Israel agreeing to a ceasefire or anything at all.
 
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