Can't really complain about our pitching to-day considering the starter is like the number 6th pitcher in the rotation.
Blue Jays 2009
- Thread starter salsamarc
- Start date
) losing 1 run games and stranding baserunners.One statistic that partly explains the Jays improved performance is 1 run games. This time last year their record was 2 - 8. Today it's 6 - 2. Obviously the result of improved offence.
The true test of this team will begin with the Yankees series. By then they should have Janssen and Romero back. The Yankees will have A-Rod back as well. Boston of course will be happy seeing these two teams playing each other as one will always be bound to lose.
The true test of this team will begin with the Yankees series. By then they should have Janssen and Romero back. The Yankees will have A-Rod back as well. Boston of course will be happy seeing these two teams playing each other as one will always be bound to lose.
can't believe how much League fuk it up in the 9th...
CL Kerry Wood made a fool out Wells on the 9th....Wells owes Bautista a beer for sure
CL Kerry Wood made a fool out Wells on the 9th....Wells owes Bautista a beer for sure
O
OnTheWayOut
slurp said:
well at least he can use that as an excuse but think about the Jays past No. 4 clean up hitters, Joe Carter & Carlos Delgado (just to name the 2 most recent ones) and tell me that you guys include V Wells in the same category
salsamarc said:
Joe Carter was nothing mroe then an average corner outfielder ..... the most overrated player (and I say that with no hesitancy) by Blue Jay fans ever.
He drove in more runs because he was not patient and teams were not scared of him. Give him great OBP's in front of him, a free swinger who does not walk, a guy that pitchers are not afraid to pitch to, and your going to get 100 RBI's pretty easily. It doesn't make you a great offensive player.
Using a fairly basic offensive stat, that at least more meaningful then a simple counting numver, lets look at OPS+ for the last six years for Vernon Wells which averages to 113, and for the first six years of Joe Carter it was 108 (first four years it was 117). There's not that much difference between the two offensively.
His awful OBP was a huge black hole at the four spot, significantly reducting RBI opportunities for those batting behind him..... add in the facts that he usually led the league in outs and this further made it harder for those behind him to succeed.
Don't give me the 100 RBI's bullshit. If you do you simply do not understand how offence works, and how other batters numbers could be severly negatively impacted by black holes in front of them,
From 1991-1994, Joe Carter was merely the fourth best outfielder playing in Canada. Larry Walker, Moises Alou, and Marquis Grissom of the Motnreal Expos were the three best outfielders playing on Canadain teams at the time.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090504&content_id=4559334&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Get this man some pinstripes, fast!!!! Or at least tackle him!!
I knew he was good but this guy is pitching like... I won't even bother to compare him to anyone. Congrats Royals, I guess we'll see you in the play-offs.
Get this man some pinstripes, fast!!!! Or at least tackle him!!
I knew he was good but this guy is pitching like... I won't even bother to compare him to anyone. Congrats Royals, I guess we'll see you in the play-offs.
a few numbers to ponder (is good to do the math before you bash a player)
VW in
2008 = 20 hr & 78 rbi
2007 = 16 & 80
2006 = 32 & 106
2005 = 28 & 97
2004 = 23 & 67
2003 = 33 & 117
2002 = 23 & 100
average = 25 & 92
Joe Carter (his time with Toronto)
1991 = 33 & 108
1992 = 34 & 119
1993 = 33 & 121
1994 = 27 & 103 (with approx 200 AB fewer due to baseball strike)
1995 = 25 & 76
1996 = 30 & 107
1997 = 21 & 102
average = 29 & 105
granted Carter was never the fielder that Wells is but Carter stole 78 bases to Wells 61 and while we are talking of OBP VW has been .332 for the above seasons while Carter was .308 and that to me is not a significant difference - now I have a confession to make - I was never a Joe Carter fan myself but the man delivered an average of 30hr & over 100 RBIS for Toronto while he was here and if you don't think that is consistency then you simply don't understand how offense works...at this time Wells is a laughable clean up hitter...
at this time there are 3 Jays with more hr than Rios (one a rookie,a guy who joined the jays as an utility player and a player who is comming back from a season ending injury last year)
2 players right now have more RBIs than Wells and 8 Jays have a better OBP than he does (6 of the 8 are regular every day players)
I say it again VW is NOT a clean up hitter and at this point bases on THESE number I am starting to miss Carter (not to mention Delgado)
VW in
2008 = 20 hr & 78 rbi
2007 = 16 & 80
2006 = 32 & 106
2005 = 28 & 97
2004 = 23 & 67
2003 = 33 & 117
2002 = 23 & 100
average = 25 & 92
Joe Carter (his time with Toronto)
1991 = 33 & 108
1992 = 34 & 119
1993 = 33 & 121
1994 = 27 & 103 (with approx 200 AB fewer due to baseball strike)
1995 = 25 & 76
1996 = 30 & 107
1997 = 21 & 102
average = 29 & 105
granted Carter was never the fielder that Wells is but Carter stole 78 bases to Wells 61 and while we are talking of OBP VW has been .332 for the above seasons while Carter was .308 and that to me is not a significant difference - now I have a confession to make - I was never a Joe Carter fan myself but the man delivered an average of 30hr & over 100 RBIS for Toronto while he was here and if you don't think that is consistency then you simply don't understand how offense works...at this time Wells is a laughable clean up hitter...
at this time there are 3 Jays with more hr than Rios (one a rookie,a guy who joined the jays as an utility player and a player who is comming back from a season ending injury last year)
2 players right now have more RBIs than Wells and 8 Jays have a better OBP than he does (6 of the 8 are regular every day players)
I say it again VW is NOT a clean up hitter and at this point bases on THESE number I am starting to miss Carter (not to mention Delgado)
salsamarc said:
VW's lack of production and being injury prone in 2007, 2008 and so far in 2009 is worrisome. Are his 30 plus HR and 100 plus RBI years behind him? Even a .290 or higher batting average is eluding him.
Cito Gaston is a joke !
How many games did he slip away so far this season ?
Brandon League like to show off his tattoos more than he win the game !
Shawn Camp pitched a baseball like a disable handicapped !
Where is Jeremy Accardo ?
Blue Jays is very very very lucky to win a wild card this season !
Lyle Overbay and Travis Snider were very very struggling !
They need a offensive 1st baseman and left-fielder now !!!!!
How many games did he slip away so far this season ?
Brandon League like to show off his tattoos more than he win the game !
Shawn Camp pitched a baseball like a disable handicapped !
Where is Jeremy Accardo ?
Blue Jays is very very very lucky to win a wild card this season !
Lyle Overbay and Travis Snider were very very struggling !
They need a offensive 1st baseman and left-fielder now !!!!!
Was a mistake to let Tallet continue pitching in the 7th after he started to get hit (4 hits in total in that innings). Was also a mistake by Gaston to let League pitch the 9th. He is not a closer.
He had few options other than to let Camp pitch the 12th.
The loss is down this time to the manager.
Batting was excellent for the most part.
He had few options other than to let Camp pitch the 12th.
The loss is down this time to the manager.
Batting was excellent for the most part.
Western Asset Management Corporation or White, Alomar, Molitor, Carter and Olerud?salsamarc said:
Perry
Carter hit 3rd in 1991 and 1992.
White-Alomar-Carter-Gruber (also Winfield 4th in 1992)
Carter hit 4th in 1993 and 1994 (possibly beyond, those are the only seasons I checked).
White-Alomar-Molitor-Carter-Olerud (also Henderson-White-Alomar-Carter)
White-Alomar-Carter-Gruber (also Winfield 4th in 1992)
Carter hit 4th in 1993 and 1994 (possibly beyond, those are the only seasons I checked).
White-Alomar-Molitor-Carter-Olerud (also Henderson-White-Alomar-Carter)
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