Israel at war
- Thread starter Butler1000
- Start date
So if this isn't a long standing USA policy then you are stating Joe Biden is solely responsible for starting it, delivering the arms that are being used, and his Genocide Joe moniker is correct.
Well no wonder the Dem base is up in arms.
1- Pro Israel vote is tiny, both here and in the US. Even amongst Jews support for zionism is fading.
2 - The infighting with dems is between progressives and those funded by AIPAC now.
There is no dilemma.
Don't vote for genocide, don't vote for rapist conmen.
Voting for Biden also won't change the system, so why should I choose that?
Genocide is a red line, as is rape and fraud. I personally won't vote for anyone who is a rapist, conman or genocidal.
AIPAC is the next target, they are like the NRA but worse, a lobbying group representing a few genocidal billionaires acting on behalf of a foreign, terrorist state.
Is that what you tell Maple Leaf and Blue Jays fans?
Your argument is to give up hoping for change and just back genocide because the rapist/conman is coming.
That winning is the only thing that matters even if you win with a genocidal maniac.
I'm saying that months ago 57% of those who voted for Biden last time said Israel is committing genocide. Aiding genocide is a red line for me. I wouldn't vote for Pol Pot, I wouldn't vote for Hitler and I wouldn't vote for Netanyahu or Biden. You argue that you have to vote for them because they are the only ones that can win.
Right, so you'd vote for Hitler because he'd promise better university funding and because it wouldn't reflect on your morality.
Telling people they are stupid for not voting the way you want them to vote isn't pointing out reality. All that's doing is pointing out your own ivory tower belief in the supremacy of your own views. Arguing that people should vote for genocide based on your own supremacist belief in your own intellect works only to taint your own argument. Trying to argue that its counter productive to not 'reward' genocide while arguing that your own understanding of history and politics is itself supremacist is an automatic failing grade in reality.
Your argument is that you must vote dishonestly to fix the system?
How do you think that works?
Please explain how this will fix the system.
Your superior understanding argues you must vote 'dishonestly' to fix a system by 'rewarding' someone you admit is aiding genocide.
This is supposed to convince other people on the board to change their views?
Netanyahu wants war with Iran but wants the US to fight it on their behalf.
He tried by bombing that Iranian embassy in Syria but nobody bit.
Lebanon is a war he thinks he can win but hopefully thinks just the threat of it is enough.
His generals don't want it but Netanyahu doesn't listen to anyone.
AIPAC needs to go the way of the NRA.
Save the children.
GAZA'S MISSING CHILDREN: OVER 20,000 CHILDREN ESTIMATED TO BE LOST, DISAPPEARED, DETAINED, BURIED UNDER THE RUBBLE OR IN MASS GRAVES
But don't hold this against Biden, its still more rational and pragmatic to vote for him we've been told.
120,000 wounded or killed, with tens of thousands more buried in rubble.
Gaza’s death toll rises
Gaza’s Health Ministry says Israeli attacks have killed at least 37,658 people and wounded 86,237 others since the start of the war.
It added that 32 people were killed and 139 wounded during the latest 24-hour reporting period.
GAZA'S MISSING CHILDREN: OVER 20,000 CHILDREN ESTIMATED TO BE LOST, DISAPPEARED, DETAINED, BURIED UNDER THE RUBBLE OR IN MASS GRAVES
But don't hold this against Biden, its still more rational and pragmatic to vote for him we've been told.
120,000 wounded or killed, with tens of thousands more buried in rubble.
Gaza’s death toll rises
Gaza’s Health Ministry says Israeli attacks have killed at least 37,658 people and wounded 86,237 others since the start of the war.
It added that 32 people were killed and 139 wounded during the latest 24-hour reporting period.
So explain it. Is it more genocide of an ongoing genocide? So more people will die, which they already are. Yes we know. Things can always be much worse. But that is like saying the Holocaust could have been much worse. It doesn't make much sense.
That is an outright lie. We are talking about Biden and Trump and the differences between them. Where did I say the US does not have any influence on Israeli policy? My criticism is precisely that, despite having the influence, they don't do anything except enable Israel.
I am extremely interested and I see no tangible impact that works for the Palestinian cause. What I see is unwavering American support for Israel on both sides of the aisle. What do you have to show, that proves I am wrong and you are right? Specifically, what?
No people dont disagree with me. Who is it that is disagreeing with me completely? The moniker "Genocide Joe" exists for a reason. Would Trump have cut off all aid if he was in power? How do we know what he would have done?
If it is their primary concern, then yes. They should.
Okay so what are the others? Specifically what?
I get it! So you admit there is no difference between Biden and Trump as it regards policy towards Palestine and anyone arguing that there is, is a fool. You've made your point.
You can tell yourself that tall tale all you want. But you are not the authority to determine what is an idiotic vote, and what is a smart vote. Voters vote their conscience. You vote your conscience when you vote. By your own definition that would make you an idiotic voter.
Tell me how a pro-Palestinian would "win" voting for Biden. Say something specific, not some lengthy mumbo jumbo.
Even that counts as voting their conscience. Some people like you want to get the best result they can. Some people vote based on what is most important to them. Some people choose to not vote at all. All of that counts as "per conscience". No vote is cast, that is not per one's conscience.
I dont know where you studied math, but a vote for a 3rd party is +1 vote for the candidate you are voting for. And it is a vote that other contesting candidates are not getting.
Sorry, it isn't.
If you had any idea of how the system worked, you'd realize that very vote is a vote per the voters conscience. Even yours, where you think you are voting to ensure the lesser of the two evils is in power.
That is either an outright lie or you have problems with reading comprehension. I said the candidate is expressing political opinions. Where did I say the vote is an expression of your opinions?
Right and for some people, the Israel Palestine issue will sway the vote more than others and they will end up voting for a 3rd party.
This entire post of yours was rambling nonsense, with absolutely ZERO substance. And I mean ZERO. You brought nothing to the table via this discussion! You did 3 things:
a) I see you have a tendency to try to twist people's words, misinterpreting them, and gaslighting them in the process. That does not make for productive debate. Stick to what is being said, not your own misinterpretations.
b) You NEVER give any information in your posts that is SPECIFIC to what is being discussed, that can actually support the points you are trying to make. If you say there is a difference between Trump and Biden, then you need to lay out specific policies, UN resolutions they have supported, and what kind of actual impact it has had on Palestinians. You have nothing to show for in your posts.
c) When you lack information that can bolster your argument, you have resorted to "Oh, you don't know blah blah". If you think someone does not know, present evidence. Just pretending to be wise and knowledgeable, while having nothing to show by way of evidence, for claimed wisdom is just a whole lot of hot air.
You are not even pretending to debate at this point. You are just wasting my time making me respond to lengthy posts with no substance. Disappointing to say the least as I was actually looking for productive debate.
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By his definitions people in clearly Red or Blue states shouldn't vote for the opposing party either because they have no chance.So explain it. Is it more genocide of an ongoing genocide? So more people will die, which they already are. Yes we know. Things can always be much worse. But that is like saying the Holocaust could have been much worse. It doesn't make much sense.
That is an outright lie. We are talking about Biden and Trump and the differences between them. Where did I say the US does not have any influence on Israeli policy? My criticism is precisely that, despite having the influence, they don't do anything except enable Israel.
I am extremely interested and I see no tangible impact that works for the Palestinian cause. What I see is unwavering American support for Israel on both sides of the aisle. What do you have to show, that proves I am wrong and you are right? Specifically, what?
No people dont disagree with me. Who is it that is disagreeing with me completely? The moniker "Genocide Joe" exists for a reason. Would Trump have cut off all aid if he was in power? How do we know what he would have done?
If it is their primary concern, then yes. They should.
Okay so what are the others? Specifically what?
I get it! So you admit there is no difference between Biden and Trump as it regards policy towards Palestine and anyone arguing that there is, is a fool. You've made your point.
You can tell yourself that tall tale all you want. But you are not the authority to determine what is an idiotic vote, and what is a smart vote. Voters vote their conscience. You vote your conscience when you vote. By your own definition that would make you an idiotic voter.
Tell me how a pro-Palestinian would "win" voting for Biden. Say something specific, not some lengthy mumbo jumbo.
Even that counts as voting their conscience. Some people like you want to get the best result they can. Some people vote based on what is most important to them. Some people choose to not vote at all. All of that counts as "per conscience". No vote is cast, that is not per one's conscience.
I dont know where you studied math, but a vote for a 3rd party is +1 vote for the candidate you are voting for. And it is a vote that other contesting candidates are not getting.
Sorry, it isn't.
If you had any idea of how the system worked, you'd realize that very vote is a vote per the voters conscience. Even yours, where you think you are voting to ensure the lesser of the two evils is in power.
That is either an outright lie or you have problems with reading comprehension. I said the candidate is expressing political opinions. Where did I say the vote is an expression of your opinions?
Right and for some people, the Israel Palestine issue will sway the vote more than others and they will end up voting for a 3rd party.
This entire post of yours was rambling nonsense, with absolutely ZERO substance. And I mean ZERO. You brought nothing to the table via this discussion! You did 3 things:
a) I see you have a tendency to try to twist people's words, misinterpreting them, and gaslighting them in the process. That does not make for productive debate. Stick to what is being said, not your own misinterpretations.
b) You NEVER give any information in your posts that is SPECIFIC to what is being discussed, that can actually support the points you are trying to make. If you say there is a difference between Trump and Biden, then you need to lay out specific policies, UN resolutions they have supported, and what kind of actual impact it has had on Palestinians. You have nothing to show for in your posts.
c) When you lack information that can bolster your argument, you have resorted to "Oh, you don't know blah blah". If you think someone does not know, present evidence. Just pretending to be wise and knowledgeable, while having nothing to show by way of evidence, for claimed wisdom is just a whole lot of hot air.
You are not even pretending to debate at this point. You are just wasting my time making me respond to lengthy posts with no substance. Disappointing to say the least as I was actually looking for productive debate.
BOB PAPE IS PROF OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AT CHICAGO & an old hand at modern assymetrical warfare, insurgencies, counterinsurgencies etc.
The starvation of Gaza is a perverse repudiation of Judaism’s values | John Oakes
Hunger’s role in Jewish philosophy and history makes it all the more horrifying that civilians in Gaza are eating garbage
www.theguardian.com
Yea, by shooting their own Palestinian kids.BOB PAPE IS PROF OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AT CHICAGO & an old hand at modern assymetrical warfare, insurgencies, counterinsurgencies etc.
Hamas Open Fire on Gazan Youngsters for Stealing | theYNC
A video from Gaza shows Hamas gunmen opening fire on Gazan civilians for stealing.
theync.com
You said Israel should show no quarter.
Yes, you claimed later that it was because Hamas has declared no quarter (or that both sides have) .
You also claimed it is impossible to commit war crimes against Hamas and also at some point that Hamas doesn't value their own lives so no quarter is appropriate.
The fact that you now are saying war crimes don't exist is just you tripling down.
