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Israel at war

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I wouldn't say there isn't any provocation. I mean it is a 75 year conflict after all.

But, it is true that there was no military objective and this was just an indiscriminate revenge attack to kill as many Israelis as possible. I know the Hamas' stated objectives were to get prisoners released, establish a state and end Israeli violations. But this was a ridiculously idiotic way to go about those things.
That's not what Hamas said.
You should do some basic research first.
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
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Well, what did Mohammed Deif say was behind the attack?
Here is Aljazeera's answer to my questions, so I'm sure they are putting the best possible spin on it:


Yet, even they do not report ANY claim by HAMAS that the civilian deaths were collateral to a legitimate mililtary objective, nor is there any claim of any PROXIMATE provocation. In other words, the VERY BEST spin of Hamas fails to satisfy any CIVILIZED preconditions for the deaths of civlians in war. I'll spare you any analysis of the tortured logic of differentiating between "settlers" and "civilians" because there isn't a logical difference, or any analysis of the cognitive dissonance to claim you weren't attacking civilians when your OWN videos show you taking them hostage, at the very least. For groups like Hamas, lying is all you have left when the facts CANNOT fit your narrative.

There, now that you are getting it from a source you no doubt trust, maybe you can finally be as informed as you claim!
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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Yes, the urban areas of Gaza may have to be flattened if Hamas does not surrender unconditionally.
They are underground, What has happened in history with this approach. Stalingrad, Montecasino. You just create a fortress of ruins.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Just a thought. In the close to 50 years or whatever it is that the PLO/ Hamas has controlled Gaza, considering the billions of dollars that have been donated to them, you'd think that their game plan of waging an endless war against their landlords, Israel, at some point wouldn't they consider building air raid shelters, bunkers, etc. for their citizens?
If you are launching constant attacks on your well armed overlords mightn't it be prudent to make sure you are prepared somewhat for the inevitable retaliation? Hospitals with no electricity or water. Civilians with no food or water or electricity. No shelter. People being bombed out of their apartments. Fuck all in the way of dealing with the destruction to the civilian population. Makes you wonder who's in charge of planning.
I doubt Hamas operatives are above ground while this is going on. They are in tunnels somewhere raping and torturing hostages they rounded up while they sit this one out.
Read this.
 

Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
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Here is Aljazeera's answer to my questions, so I'm sure they are putting the best possible spin on it:


Yet, even they do not report ANY claim by HAMAS that the civilian deaths were collateral to a legitimate mililtary objective, nor is there any claim of any PROXIMATE provocation. In other words, the VERY BEST spin of Hamas fails to satisfy any CIVILIZED preconditions for the deaths of civlians in war. I'll spare you any analysis of the tortured logic of differentiating between "settlers" and "civilians" because there isn't a logical difference, or any analysis of the cognitive dissonance to claim you weren't attacking civilians when your OWN videos show you taking them hostage, at the very least. For groups like Hamas, lying is all you have left when the facts CANNOT fit your narrative.

There, now that you are getting it from a source you no doubt trust, maybe you can finally be as informed as you claim!
What did Muhammad Deif say the reasons for the attack were? I prefer primary sources when available. And not snippets like the article. His full statement.
Why are you so afraid of finding out?
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I think each and every Hamas person should be neutralized. Leadership to foot soldier. That would actually help the Palestinian cause. Name me 3 good things the Hamas has done for the Palestinians in the last 16 years? Yeah, there is none.
Name me 3 good things the Israeli government has done in the same time.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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"Powerful"??!?!?!?!?!

A couple hundred hippies at a music festival?!?!?!

Let's see what happens. Your "expertise" in Ukraine has been pretty sad and off base. The HAMAS "army" is untrained, undisciplined militia. Probably with limited heavy weapons and tech and primitive tactics. I'm betting they're going to get massacred like your Russians are currently getting outside Avdiivka.

I said the war in Ukraine would be decided in Russias favor in the East. That is what's happening. The counter offensive was a disaster for Ukraine.
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
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They are underground, What has happened in history with this approach. Stalingrad, Montecasino. You just create a fortress of ruins.
Bunkerbusting weaponry is much more effective in 2023. Further, the tunnel network will be cut off from supplies with an previously unseen level of determination by the IDF. If the bunkers aren't essentially destroyed, their supply chain will be. Unlike the fickle west, I sense no lack of resolve in the Israelis.
 
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nottyboi

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Dutch Oven

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What did Muhammad Deif say the reasons for the attack were? I prefer primary sources when available. And not snippets like the article. His full statement.
Why are you so afraid of finding out?
You're not satisfied with Al Jazeera setting out the Hamas position? Then stop being so daft, and provide whatever statement you wish to rely on.
 
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Klatuu

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Dec 31, 2022
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You're not satisfied with Al Jazeera setting out the Hamas position? Then stop being so daft, and provide whatever statement you wish to rely on.
What did Mohamed Deif say? I don’t think you even know who he is.

My own observations of military objectives is that Hamas destroyed their surveillance system, communications system, border wall and forced the IDF thugs to flee en masse. They left their own citizens to fend for themselves. The entire world saw what a pathetic bunch they are. That in itself is the enormous military objective achieved.

Israel will now try to murder as many Palestinians as they can to feel better about themselves.
 
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Leimonis

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Feb 28, 2020
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Nobody was told to flee from these buildings.

On what basis you claim that? My impression was that there were warnings each time. And even hamas picked it up and gave warning to ashkelon civilians (which seemed like trolling to me)
 
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