My opinionated opinion of the garbage strike

[Rockslinger]

we now are in a system called "State Capitalism" where the state provides grants, subsities and bailouts to the companies so there is no risk for the big boys, did somebody say AIG?

The cause of this problem are the American SOCIALISTS who felt that every single American is entitled to home ownership and FORCED U.S. financial institutions to lend money in the form of sub-prime mortgages to non-credit worthy borrowers to buy overpriced houses.

The other cause are the greedy UNIONS (UAW and CAW) who forced GM and Chrysler to pay wages and pensions that they could not afford which is exactly what the CUPE is doing to force Toronto to pay unaffordable wages and benefits by using goon tactics.

 

[Mrbig1949]

tearing up

The cause of this problem are the American SOCIALISTS who felt that every single American is entitled to home ownership and FORCED U.S. financial institutions to lend money in the form of sub-prime mortgages to non-credit worthy borrowers to buy overpriced houses.

The other cause are the greedy UNIONS (UAW and CAW) who forced GM and Chrysler to pay wages and pensions that they could not afford which is exactly what the CUPE is doing to force Toronto to pay unaffordable wages and benefits by using goon tactics.

Somebody got a tissue? I for one am tearing up,

 

[JohnLarue]

Of course Larue's spin is a complete crock since we now are in a system called "State Capitalism" where the state provides grants, subsities and bailouts to the companies so there is no risk for the big boys, did somebody say AIG?

Another example of your poor understanding of what drives an economy.

The risks taken by AIG traders were inappropriate & not controlled.
The Fed decided to AIG was too big to fail. Right or Wrong.

AIG could have fucked up the credit markets for years, but they are not going to drive the recovery.

The true driver of economic growth will be the numerous small companies looking to grow from $5MM to $50 MM in sales.
They will be the ones to provide the job growth & many of those jobs will be of a higher compensation

For them to grow they will require investment & that will come from the rich whom you look to tax.

Your socialist policies would kill this recovery by
a) Reducing the return these investors demand (higher taxes) for the risk they are taking. Therefore they do not invest. Therefore no jobs
b) Unionizing growing companies & taking a disproportionate share of the cashflow required for growth investment

One of GMs biggest problems was poor innovation & product design
Had the unions not burdened the company with excessive benefit payment, who knows how things might have turned out

 

[Mrbig1949]

Some forger signed those contracts for GM

Another example of your poor understanding of what drives an economy.

The risks taken by AIG traders were inappropriate & not controlled.
The Fed decided to AIG was too big to fail. Right or Wrong.

AIG could have fucked up the credit markets for years, but they are not going to drive the recovery.

The true driver of economic growth will be the numerous small companies looking to grow from $5MM to $50 MM in sales.
They will be the ones to provide the job growth & many of those jobs will be of a higher compensation

For them to grow they will require investment & that will come from the rich whom you look to tax.

Your socialist policies would kill this recovery by
a) Reducing the return these investors demand (higher taxes) for the risk they are taking. Therefore they do not invest. Therefore no jobs
b) Unionizing growing companies & taking a disproportionate share of the cashflow required for growth investment

One of GMs biggest problems was poor innovation & product design
Had the unions not burdened the company with excessive benefit payment, who knows how things might have turned out

yea the union the union OMFG let it go you guys, they are here to stay, we are facing a serious labour shortage as the boomers retire and they will be the driver's seat. Get over yourselves.

 

[JohnLarue]

yea the union the union OMFG let it go you guys, they are here to stay, we are facing a serious labour shortage as the boomers retire and they will be the driver's seat. Get over yourselves.

Give your head a rub.
Unions are becoming less relevant as each day goes by

Here are some facts.

In the early eighties close to 41% of Canada's workforce was unionized. That figure is now in the mid twenties.

Corporate Canada has
1) changed in its nature (less bending of metal & more technical &service oriented)
2) Had enough of the union hindrance to competitiveness

The new jobs in the market place will be much more demanding in terms of technical skills.
These jobs will be filled by guys who want to bank 21 sick days a year???? I DO NOT THINK SO

While I would not advocate the complete disappearance of unions, the trend should settle somewhere in and around 10-15%
That should be sufficient to apply some pressure on business to maintain safe workplaces and wage / benefits aligned with the value of the service provided.

My concern is th hold they have on the public sector & the tremendous waste that results.

Hopefully there will be more contracting by the governments to obtain better value for the taxpayers dollar

 

[Mrbig1949]

Keep dreamin'

Give your head a rub.
Unions are becoming less relevant as each day goes by

Here are some facts.

In the early eighties close to 41% of Canada's workforce was unionized. That figure is now in the mid twenties.

Corporate Canada has
1) changed in its nature (less bending of metal & more technical &service oriented)
2) Had enough of the union hindrance to competitiveness

The new jobs in the market place will be much more demanding in terms of technical skills.
These jobs will be filled by guys who want to bank 21 sick days a year???? I DO NOT THINK SO

While I would not advocate the complete disappearance of unions, the trend should settle somewhere in and around 10-15%
That should be sufficient to apply some pressure on business to maintain safe workplaces and wage / benefits aligned with the value of the service provided.

My concern is th hold they have on the public sector & the tremendous waste that results.

Hopefully there will be more contracting by the governments to obtain better value for the taxpayers dollar

Keep dreamin' my friend. Contracting out doesn't save anything. The quality goes down the drain. Look at charter schools and voucher schools in the USA, Thier testing results are running BEHIND the local public schools. Reason, well it is because they don't know what they are doing according to Stanford U. study.

 

[JohnLarue]

Keep dreamin' my friend. Contracting out doesn't save anything. The quality goes down the drain. Look at charter schools and voucher schools in the USA, Thier testing results are running BEHIND the local public schools. Reason, well it is because they don't know what they are doing according to Stanford U. study.

Your the one dreaming pal
Contracting out the garbage collection would save an immdediate 10% as it would eliminate the banked sick days.


There is no quality if the workers are on strike.
Part of quality is dependability of service
The last garbage strike is still in recent memory
Yoor quality arguement is a self-seving joke

 

[Mao Tse Tongue]

yea the union the union OMFG let it go you guys, they are here to stay, we are facing a serious labour shortage as the boomers retire and they will be the driver's seat. Get over yourselves.

That takes the cake as one of the dumbest comments in this thread.

 

[Mao Tse Tongue]

The cause of this problem are the American SOCIALISTS who felt that every single American is entitled to home ownership and FORCED U.S. financial institutions to lend money in the form of sub-prime mortgages to non-credit worthy borrowers to buy overpriced houses.

The other cause are the greedy UNIONS (UAW and CAW) who forced GM and Chrysler to pay wages and pensions that they could not afford which is exactly what the CUPE is doing to force Toronto to pay unaffordable wages and benefits by using goon tactics.

That is certainly an interesting spin, lol.

The cause of the problem is greed and irresponsibility at ALL levels. A culture of entitlement and easy money. As true on Main Street as Wall Street. The sub-prime mess was greased at every level and by everyone. The dissenters were silenced. That's our system. Unreality became the norm.

Certainly unions have had their day and it's only the cranks and fossils that are arguing for unions in this thread.

 

[JohnLarue]

Mr. Big1949 (just like like WoodPeker, what a role model???? Yikes ) will grab a headline & try to stuff into a rational for their one-side view of the world. Things like facts, accuracy and relevance do not seem to apply if the headlines appear to support the union position.
No matter, I have confidence that most rational intelligent people, know when they are being feed a line of bullshit.

e.g.
Quality of service for garbage collection. That was funny
Collective bargaining is just like buying a house. That was so ridiculous
Quality of schools. Again, the fingers were moving faster than the brain
Union guys will replace all the retiring baby boomers The trend is moving in the opposite direction

The sad part is he thinks we buy into this crapola

 

[Mrbig1949]

Who needs you?

Mr. Big1949 (just like like WoodPeker, what a role model???? Yikes ) will grab a headline & try to stuff into a rational for their one-side view of the world. Things like facts, accuracy and relevance do not seem to apply if the headlines appear to support the union position.
No matter, I have confidence that most rational intelligent people, know when they are being feed a line of bullshit.

e.g.
Quality of service for garbage collection. That was funny
Collective bargaining is just like buying a house. That was so ridiculous
Quality of schools. Again, the fingers were moving faster than the brain
Union guys will replace all the retiring baby boomers The trend is moving in the opposite direction

The sad part is he thinks we buy into this crapola

Things will be resolved one way or the other, your extreme opinions simply do not matter and have no bearing in the greater sceme of things. You are too far right even for the old Reform Party let alone the Tories.

 

[JohnLarue]

Who needs me?

It would appear that CUPE employees do, as it is my tax dollars which pay their bloated salaries & benefits.

If even the slightest consideration was given to this very important fact, the hostility & opposition to unions would be more moderate
Nobody likes to be taken for granted.

As for my opinions not mattering, again I suggest you take a look at the poll showing in excess of 80% do not support this bullshit strike.

Perhaps I am more vocal and hard-lined when it comes to this subject, but its an undeniable fact that in excess of 80% do not support the excesses the union demands
I also feel compelled to point out ridiculous statements such as "Negotiating a contract is just like buying a house or car" as inaccurate.
I am still laughing at that fantasy

The economic climate has changed significantly.
If the unions do not adjust to these changes, they will become a footnote in history such as the Woolly Mammoth, the typewriter & disco music

 

[Mrbig1949]

Buying a house

Who needs me?

It would appear that CUPE employees do, as it is my tax dollars which pay their bloated salaries & benefits.

If even the slightest consideration was given to this very important fact, the hostility & opposition to unions would be more moderate
Nobody likes to be taken for granted.

As for my opinions not mattering, again I suggest you take a look at the poll showing in excess of 80% do not support this bullshit strike.

Perhaps I am more vocal and hard-lined when it comes to this subject, but its an undeniable fact that in excess of 80% do not support the excesses the union demands
I also feel compelled to point out ridiculous statements such as "Negotiating a contract is just like buying a house or car" as inaccurate.
I am still laughing at that fantasy

The economic climate has changed significantly.
If the unions do not adjust to these changes, they will become a footnote in history such as the Woolly Mammoth, the typewriter & disco music

I've negotiated the contracts LaRue. IT IS EXACTLY LIKE BUYING A HOUSE.

 

[blackrock13]

LR;Watch what you say about disco.

MB brings up issues,sometimes out of the blue, sometimes out of the ether sometimes out of some orifice somewhere. He talks about capitalism with great enthusiasm, crapping all over it,and very quickly ignoring that shoot him out of the water.

I know I'm may be going out on a limb here and with almost 1000 posts on the strike and unions, this point may have slipped by me, but I'm guessing he's a member of a union and quite possibly one of the major ones.

His knowledge about capitalism seems to be boundless and almost with equals, but I'll bet he's never read a paragraph with or spoke the terms ROA, ROE, or EBITDA in his life. Although his higher-ups, who take care of his unions stock and bond portfolios, know what they are and how they work.

Unions and their members wail about the evil and greed of capitalism, yet are quite happy to suck at the teat of the same for their pensions, perks and bonuses. That's a pure definition of hypocrisy.

Haven't heard much from OJ and BW lately. They must have a life or are out on the line with their brothers and sisters.

 

[blackrock13]

I've negotiated the contracts LaRue. IT IS EXACTLY LIKE BUYING A HOUSE.

So, how much rent are you paying these days?

 

[Rockslinger]

Who needs me?
It would appear that CUPE employees do, as it is my tax dollars which pay their bloated salaries & benefits.

JL, you are so right. Unfortunately, some CUPE members forget who is the parasite and who is the host. The host can survive without parasites, but not vice versa.

Anyway, read in the weekend papers that some CUPE members feel bad about forcing 75 year old ladies to wait in the hot sun and then forcing them to walk their garbage bags 100 yards to the dump. It seems that even CUPE members have mothers and grandmothers too and not all of them were raised by wolves (sorry for insulting wolves).

 

[fuji]

The cause of this problem are the American SOCIALISTS who felt that every single American is entitled to home ownership and FORCED U.S. financial institutions to lend money in the form of sub-prime mortgages to non-credit worthy borrowers to buy overpriced houses.

I call bullshit. Banks were not forced to make those loans. They were not forced to create SPV's so that they could evade regulations that would have prevented this mess. They did that on their own and it is proof of why they need to be much better regulated.

You are likely talking about that CRA programme but note that it accounts for only a fraction of a percent of the bad mortgages that were made and does not explain away all the shenanigans that were played to get around regulations.

...

I agree with you that it was stupid unions that in part brought down GM and Chrysler. Equally it was bad management at those companies that permitted those unions to exist. Management gets the union it deserves, and bad managers wind up with a bad union. If GM had had good management it would have broken that union 30 years ago before it caused this much damage to the company.

 

[blackrock13]

Again in one of the threads the comment was made that unions meant quality, or to be more precise, 'unions = quality'. My comment was look at GM and Chrysler then think of Toyota and Nissan (are any NA Honda plants union shop?), then see if that statement stands up. I was not surprised when no comment was forthcoming from BW, OJ, or MB. They tend to ignore statements they've made in error or arguments they can't back up.

 

[JohnLarue]

I've negotiated the contracts LaRue. IT IS EXACTLY LIKE BUYING A HOUSE.

OK Mrbig1946
Your going to buy my house
The market value of homes in my neighborhood is approximately $675,000
The asking price for my particular house is $925,000 & there is nothing that sets my house apart from any other in the neighborhood. In addition, I will need to store some art in the garage until my retirement. You will be required to make periodic donations to this collection & you will bear the market risk similar to a defined benefits pension plan.

You are welcome to submit a counter offer, but realistically I will not agree to anything less than $900,000. & I suugest you do not even thnk about changes to the art collection benefits

You are not however permitted to consider the purchase of another house. You must negociate for this house and this house alone

You have until late December (notice the choice of month) to meet my demands. If a deal can not worked out by then, me and my team will form a picket line around your current home & prevent you & your family access.
Health issues are not my concern
We will maintain this action until you agree to my terms

Oh one last thing, I have a sentimental attachment to this house & it makes me feel better when I am not well. I will need you to vacate the premises whenever I am sick. I am entitled to 21 sick days each year & any not used are bankable for the future.
Upon my retirement I am entitled to cash out my banked sick days payable by you at the pro-rata rate of whatever my latest house sale was valued at.

Oh yeah, labor contracts are exactly like buying a house????
If your buying from Tony Saprano

 

[SirLickheralot]

United Fruit Company led a CIA backed coup of a elected democracy - which killed many thousands - or was it millions ? - of peasants - in Nicaragua because Nicaragua was going to confiscate their banana fields and give them back to the farmers (Nicaragua was willing to pay United for the fields)

The populace of "Banana republics" live in poverty so we can eat bananas

Confiscating the means of production from the rich and giving it to the poor doesn't necessarily benefit the poor in the long run and can actually have the opposite effect and make them worse off. A large company like United Fruit benefits from economies of scale and has the technology and knowledge to maximize production.

Look what happened with land confiscation in Zimbabwe. The took large farms from rich white farmers and broke them up and redistributed them to poor blacks. The country went from being called the breadbasket of southern Africa and a net exported of food to being a country that can't even feed its own people and a country where 45% of the population is now malnourished. The wealth has been distributed to a larger number of people but production has decreased dramatically, leading to less supply of food and higher prices for what is remaining. This has hurt more poor people than it helped.