My opinionated opinion of the garbage strike

[Mrbig1949]

Civilized legal strikes or goon squads and axe handles.

OK Mrbig1946
Your going to buy my house
The market value of homes in my neighborhood is approximately $675,000
The asking price for my particular house is $925,000 & there is nothing that sets my house apart from any other in the neighborhood. In addition, I will need to store some art in the garage until my retirement. You will be required to make periodic donations to this collection & you will bear the market risk similar to a defined benefits pension plan.

You are welcome to submit a counter offer, but realistically I will not agree to anything less than $900,000. & I suugest you do not even thnk about changes to the art collection benefits

You are not however permitted to consider the purchase of another house. You must negociate for this house and this house alone

You have until late December (notice the choice of month) to meet my demands. If a deal can not worked out by then, me and my team will form a picket line around your current home & prevent you & your family access.
Health issues are not my concern
We will maintain this action until you agree to my terms

Oh one last thing, I have a sentimental attachment to this house & it makes me feel better when I am not well. I will need you to vacate the premises whenever I am sick. I am entitled to 21 sick days each year & any not used are bankable for the future.
Upon my retirement I am entitled to cash out my banked sick days payable by you at the pro-rata rate of whatever my latest house sale was valued at.

Oh yeah, labor contracts are exactly like buying a house????
If your buying from Tony Saprano

That is Soprano not Saprano.

Your mixed metaphors are hard to follow my good man. The relationship is totally balanced as anyone with a real familiarity with the Labour Movement would know. The strikers do without wages (the buyer does not yet get the house). The city does without a major service (you can bet the Mayor's and the councillor's phones are ringing off the hook with the message, "I don't care how you get them back in there but do it soon, If you have to give in give in.") The one that can't take it any longer at some point makes a major move in the other's direction, exactly like buying a house. A price is arrived at and the deal is done. If not, both sides continue unhappily onwards.

EXACTLY LIKE BUYING A HOUSE ONLY YOU ARE PURCHASING LABOUR AT AN AGREED PRICE. We went through the goon squad period when there were no rules. If you don't follow today's rules it is back to axe handles and Louisville sluggers. Take your choice.

 

[JohnLarue]

That is Soprano not Saprano.

Your mixed metaphors are hard to follow my good man. The relationship is totally balanced as anyone with a real familiarity with the Labour Movement would know. The strikers do without wages (the buyer does not yet get the house). The city does without a major service (you can bet the Mayor's and the councillor's phones are ringing off the hook with the message, "I don't care how you get them back in there but do it soon, If you have to give in give in.") The one that can't take it any longer at some point makes a major move in the other's direction, exactly like buying a house. A price is arrived at and the deal is done. If not, both sides continue unhappily onwards.

EXACTLY LIKE BUYING A HOUSE ONLY YOU ARE PURCHASING LABOUR AT AN AGREED PRICE. We went through the goon squad period when there were no rules. If you don't follow today's rules it is back to axe handles and Louisville sluggers. Take your choice.

Hard to follow??
OK I will type slow, just for you

Problems
1. is it is not an agreed price (meet the unions demands or it is a strike) & it is never close to market value
2. the purchaser is not permitted to explore alternatives (what kind of housing market is that?)
3. your relying on a third party (the public) to intervene and apply pressure on the purchaser. It would be one thing if the third party was impartial, but your group has unconvinced / disrupted this third party in order to apply pressure on the buyer.

OK then, we will have the Hells Angels open up a clubhouse right next door to your current house, that should motivate you to meet my excessive demands

Oh bye the way, you will need to do another house purchase 4 years from the closing as thats when my contact will expire.

Axe handle and Louisville's??
Please
From your side maybe
Todays management is far more enlightened.
You would be pleasantly surprised if your approach was one of co-operation and partnership rather than us vs. them
But you will never know as you will never go down that road & continue to fight for excess because it is the principle (gotta get one over on the man)rather than what is fair or appropriate

 

[Mrbig1949]

Not up to you

Hard to follow??
OK I will type slow, just for you

Problems
1. is it is not an agreed price (meet the unions demands or it is a strike) & it is never close to market value
2. the purchaser is not permitted to explore alternatives (what kind of housing market is that?)
3. your relying on a third party (the public) to intervene and apply pressure on the purchaser. It would be one thing if the third party was impartial, but your group has unconvinced / disrupted this third party in order to apply pressure on the buyer.

OK then, we will have the Hells Angels open up a clubhouse right next door to your current house, that should motivate you to meet my excessive demands

Oh bye the way, you will need to do another house purchase 4 years from the closing as thats when my contact will expire.

Axe handle and Louisville's??
Please
From your side maybe
Todays management is far more enlightened.
You would be pleasantly surprised if your approach was one of co-operation and partnership rather than us vs. them
But you will never know as you will never go down that road & continue to fight for excess because it is the principle (gotta get one over on the man)rather than what is fair or appropriate

The joke is who decides what is fair or appropriate, surely you are not suggesting that management decide that on its own? This is a LEGAL strike. It is the product of our western system that we brought in after the 30s and 40s and involves mediation, arbitration and a very complex system of rules developed by government and the parties (labour and management) over decades of experience and tweeking. Like democracy, it is the worst system except for all the other ones. Strikes are rare and usually short. Sometimes not so much. All the rules were arrived at painstakingly and democratically over a protracted period of time. Would you have us decide these things some other way. Me you ask? I'll stick with democracy.

 

[blackrock13]

The joke is who decides what is fair or appropriate, surely you are not suggesting that management decide that on its own? This is a LEGAL strike. It is the product of our western system that we brought in after the 30s and 40s and involves mediation, arbitration and a very complex system of rules developed by government and the parties (labour and management) over decades of experience and tweeking. Like democracy, it is the worst system except for all the other ones. Strikes are rare and usually short. Sometimes not so much. All the rules were arrived at painstakingly and democratically over a protracted period of time. Would you have us decide these things some other way. Me you ask? I'll stick with democracy.

An often quoted comment in many discussion flies in the face of your argument. Just because it's legal, doesn't means it's right,

 

[Mrbig1949]

Just Because it is legal doen't mean it is wrong either

An often quoted comment in many discussion flies in the face of your argument. Just because it's legal, doesn't means it's right,

Our system of labour relations has been decided over the years in a democratic fashion. Hitler, Mussolini Franco and the other Fascists got rid of unions really quick but that seems to be the only way. Funny they all came back. Only totaliterian nations supress union activity. The United Nations says they are a human right and we have the ILO.

I ask again, would you have us decide the rights of unions in some other fashion than democratically? I don't think so. You are just blowing smoke.

 

[blackrock13]

Our system of labour relations has been decided over the years in a democratic fashion. Hitler, Mussolini Franco and the other Fascists got rid of unions really quick but that seems to be the only way. Funny they all came back. Only totaliterian nations supress union activity. The United Nations says they are a human right and we have the ILO.

I ask again, would you have us decide the rights of unions in some other fashion than democratically? I don't think so. You are just blowing smoke.

Please tell me what the ILO is and please give some source of the UN saying that unions were a human right.

I've never said union couldn't set up if majority of the workforce wanted it.

As far as getting rid of unions I've said I don't how many times in these threads, never. We need unions to remind us how bad things can get. Don't try to connect me with those bad bad men. It won't work.

Democracy in unions. Does it take 50% +1 to certify a union at work? Doe it also take 50%+ 1 to decertify that same union.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Certify some jurisdictions 60% others more

Please tell me what the ILO is and please give some source of the UN saying that unions were a human right.

I've never said union couldn't set up if majority of the workforce wanted it.

As far as getting rid of unions I've said I don't how many times in these threads, never. We need unions to remind us how bad things can get. Don't try to connect me with those bad bad men. It won't work.

Democracy in unions. Does it take 50% +1 to certify a union at work? Doe it also take 50%+ 1 to decertify that same union.

Usually

 

[Mrbig1949]

Google International Labour Organization

Please tell me what the ILO is and please give some source of the UN saying that unions were a human right.

I've never said union couldn't set up if majority of the workforce wanted it.

As far as getting rid of unions I've said I don't how many times in these threads, never. We need unions to remind us how bad things can get. Don't try to connect me with those bad bad men. It won't work.

Democracy in unions. Does it take 50% +1 to certify a union at work? Doe it also take 50%+ 1 to decertify that same union.

You will find it right under your nose.

Being anti-Labour is the same as being racist, sexist or homophobic. It is based on an antagonism to equality.

 

[blackrock13]

Usually

What?

 

[Mao Tse Tongue]

Well it looks like the cracks are appearing.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/664791

"Cracks are beginning to appear in the solidarity of striking civic workers, even as the union insists "a fairly big gap" in bargaining positions is keeping the two sides apart.

As Toronto enters Day 21 of a strike that has stopped garbage collection, curbed municipal services and shut down scores of daycare centres, more than 520 striking city employees have decided to cross their own picket lines and go back to work, city officials say."

 

[blackrock13]

You will find it right under your nose.

Being anti-Labour is the same as being racist, sexist or homophobic. It is based on an antagonism to equality.

Again, what?

That's your source.

Wrong 4 times in one statement. It's got to be a record.

The short answer is I'm not anti-labour. A lot of people work for me and with me in harmony.

But I am anti-duffus.

 

[blackrock13]

Well it looks like the cracks are appearing.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/664791

"Cracks are beginning to appear in the solidarity of striking civic workers, even as the union insists "a fairly big gap" in bargaining positions is keeping the two sides apart.

As Toronto enters Day 21 of a strike that has stopped garbage collection, curbed municipal services and shut down scores of daycare centres, more than 520 striking city employees have decided to cross their own picket lines and go back to work, city officials say."

Ooops!

Now, only 14,481 to go.

 

[Rockslinger]

"Cracks are beginning to appear in the solidarity of striking civic workers, even as the union insists "a fairly big gap" in bargaining positions is keeping the two sides apart.

It's a good thing that the City made their offer public because now everybody knows that the Union is crying with two loafs of bread in its hands. The re-balancing of monopoly public sector union wages and benefits will take several years to accomplish. The looming issue out there are pensions. A CUPE City of Toronto employee is entitled to an indexed pension based on 70% of best 5 years pay. This is simply not affordable (just like the GM pension was never affordable).

 

[JohnLarue]

You will find it right under your nose.

Being anti-Labour is the same as being racist, sexist or homophobic. It is based on an antagonism to equality.

What a pile of horse shit
You have posted some extreme things but this takes the cake
It is foolish, has no logical basis and its irresponsible

A logical comparison would be the statement
"Being Pro-labor is the same as being a communist, unwilling to put in an honest days work or automatically linked to organized crime"

But I would never make that statement as it would be irresponsible.

What I will say is when ever the pro-unionists are confronted with logical, well articulated arguments based upon facts , they tend to resort to rhetoric, personal insults and make wild unsubstantiated statements.
Just read some of WoodPekers drivel, you will see what I mean

Please stick to the facts
Oh yeah, I forgot, you have none, just union hall slogans from the 1930s
Time to move into the 21 century

 

[blackrock13]

Well it looks like the cracks are appearing.

Originating from the Financial Post.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/664791

"Cracks are beginning to appear in the solidarity of striking civic workers, even as the union insists "a fairly big gap" in bargaining positions is keeping the two sides apart.

As Toronto enters Day 21 of a strike that has stopped garbage collection, curbed municipal services and shut down scores of daycare centres, more than 520 striking city employees have decided to cross their own picket lines and go back to work, city officials say."

It would also seem that the support for unions is waning as well, contrary to some previous comments.

http://www.nanosresearch.com/news/in_the_news/Canadacom August 29 2008.pdf

To summarize a portion;

From 2003 to 2008;

8% more canadians with jobs don't think unions are needed.

the number of unionized or former unionized workers who still preferred to be unionized dropped 17% from 83% to 64%.

Quebec was a saw off.

77% of non union workers said they have no interest in being unionized.

unionized workers have fallen steadily since 1991 to 30%.

92% of all workers are happy with their managers. Sounds oppressed to me don't it.

Mr Ken Georgetti, president of Canadian Labour Congress said 20% of non unionized are interested or kind of interested in being unionized. That means 80% aren't interested, 4 times as many.

In 2003 44% of CLC unionized workers say that unions aren't needed for them to be treated well by their bosses. of interest is that an updated poll has not been done. Veeerrry Innnteresssting.

 

[oldjones]

An often quoted comment in many discussion flies in the face of your argument. Just because it's legal, doesn't means it's right,

And just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

 

[blackrock13]

And just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

Never hear that one before. My comment still stands.

Old trick, if you can't slag the message, slag the messenger.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Face it man!

Never hear that one before. My comment still stands.

Old trick, if you can't slag the message, slag the messenger.

Your anti-union point of view is not only out of fashion, the only organized groups that oppose the present laws with a tweek here and there are totaliterian groups. Go join the skin heads, you might get a good hearing there.

 

[blackrock13]

Your anti-union point of view is not only out of fashion, the only organized groups that oppose the present laws with a tweek here and there are totaliterian groups. Go join the skin heads, you might get a good hearing there.

How many times do I have to say it. Slowly now;

I'm not anti union, I want unions around for reasons I have stated many times in the various threads.

My opinion on various union stances is clearly supported by other workers as reflected in polls in other threads. I not even close to being out of fashion.

Listening to comments made by Messrs. Lawenza, Moist and Georgetti reminds me of a conversation overheard in 1812;

Hey! Mon General, are we retreating from Moscow?

Non, stupide, we're advancing on Paris.

I'll try to explain it to those who don't quite get it, if you ask nicely.

 

[Rockslinger]

I'm not anti union,

We all know you are not anti-union. Your accusers are simply using an old union tactic to try to put you on the defensive. Sort of like accusing someone of beating his wife.

It is clear to any rational person that the union already have a very sweet deal and have no valid reason to strike.