Israel at war

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I mean exactly what I said I mean.
So minorities, youth and progressives. Even if you won't name them.



You yourself have admitted that voting Trump in doesn't stop the genocide or affect it in any way.
Therefore, obviously, by your own calculation - this isn't a vote between "Trump or Genocide".
If that is what you truly believe, then the only reason to not vote Biden (if you think the Genocide is the only issue anyone should vote on) is to punish Biden for being president during the genocide.
Since you yourself admit nothing changes by doing this, then you are stating - quite clearly - that punishing Biden is more important than anything Trump will do as President.
Yet the possibility of Biden losing over aiding genocide might pressure him to stop before the election. Netanyahu is done and soon to be just a war criminal facing fraud charges at home. Zionism as a movement is now as loved as the KKK. The genocide continues but is down to starving children and bombing families living in tents as the move from one 'safe zone' to the next. I would wonder if even rump can support it now.

You did, for a while, try to pitch the "We don't know the future so maybe Trump will be better about Israel/Palestine" argument.
You seem to have abandoned that, though.

My question to you, again and again, has been what helping Trump win gains you - even if the only issue in the world you care about is the Israel-Palestine situation.
My answer to that is "nothing" - it gains you absolutely nothing outside of an emotional satisfaction in "not supporting genocide" or the emotional satisfaction of "making Biden lose".
This is about the long game, letting rump win will force change in the dems. This is Biden's last election and watching the AIPAC/Bowman fight is a preview of how that money will look during November.

Zionism as a movement must be ended, the leaders taken to court and the occupation ended. That won't happen ever under Biden. He needs to go.


That would only apply if Trump was offering a better deal on Israel Palestine.
Then my choice would be "Do I support genocide to keep Trump out of power or not".
But since Trump isn't offering to do better - in fact he is saying the US isn't supporting Israel enough (and his past history involves cutting off humanitarian aid and no longer classifying settlements as illegal and other actions showing he is likely to follow through on the "we should do more to help the Israeli right wing's ambitions"). So therefore there is no "It is pragmatic to support genocide because of fear of what a Trump administration will do". The genocide is completely off the table in the election.

So again, even if the ONLY ISSUE I CARE ABOUT is the genocide, there is no reason to help Trump win.
Your sole argument is that you think rump might be worse for the genocide.
its a genocide, it really can't get much worse.

I have repeatedly said his policy is wrong, in fact it is indefensible.
What I have said is that voting third party and putting Trump into power will not change it.
I get that it really upsets you that things don't work that way, but you pouting doesn't
Long term it may change that policy. In 2028 its a different discussion.

Another reason you support making sure Biden loses and putting Trump in charge, I suppose, since he has promised to crack down on people dong this in the US.


View attachment 337052

“If you get me elected, and you should really be doing this … we’re going to set that movement back 25 or 30 years,” Trump said
rump couldn't enact a Muslim ban and won't be able to enact this, even if its still going on in Nov.
He's senile and more worried about pardoning himself, a nice piece of chocolate cake and cheating at golf.

You think he'll be worse than this?
 

Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,882
11,790
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Toronto
What I do know is that you need to stop projecting your failures after having embarrassed yourself for 900+ pages, on me.
I will let our posts speak for themselves.

Your problem is that your debates with other people say the same thing. You get in over your head.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,882
11,790
113
Toronto
Degree of support, etc are either inconsequential and minor, or are purely rhetoric and talking points that do not result in changes to the status quo that is very much needed.

I didn't realize you thought the US has no power to affect the Israel situation at all.
Interesting.
.

You slept through Trump's administration concerning Israel, didn't you?
Exactly.
So voting as if that isn't true would be stupid, wouldn't it?
And they are not claiming anything. That is what they are actually doing. They did not give their vote to either Trump or Biden. They took 1 vote away from both parties and gave it to someone else whether or not they had any chance of winning.

Yes.
And that has an effect on the result.
I don't know why you have such a problem understanding that.
This was an excellent post.

Kautilya, the way Valcazar mocks you is so sublime. How can any logical person understand the way your brain works? LOL.

Please keep debating him.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,882
11,790
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Toronto
Yes and if we let our posts speak for themselves, it becomes quite clear that your posts amount to nothing more than unintelligent, childish, lazy quips, where in an attempt to satisfy your need to win debates that are beyond your capacity to debate, at any cost, you inevitably end up repeatedly pretzeling and embarrassing yourself in the process. As such your comments on other people's posts are irrelevant.
At this moment I am simply an observer and I am observing your utter lack of ability to engage Valcazar with any logic or consistent train of thought to prevent him from making a mockery of your arguments. He keeps using your words and arguments against you until he says, "I don't understand why you can't comprehend this". LOL

Please keep debating him.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,882
11,790
113
Toronto
Just quoting some random posts, out of context, to troll. I told you, your posts were lazy and unintelligent.

I can literally feel your anger, frustration and teeth grinding, after having not just lost so many exchanges with me but thoroughly embarrassing yourself by admitting to dubious things about yourself in the process. 🐸
Keep debating Valcazar, pleeaase.
 

The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
29,577
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
Oh that he outright promotes because anti-Palestinian attitudes by characterizing all of them as terrorists, is one of the most acceptable in the west. Never mind that 70% of them are women and children. So he derives vicarious pleasure from their suffering. There are all kinds of people amongst us man! SMH.

LOL...I see a future parking lot attendant here.
 

Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
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