Israel at war

[Frankfooter]

The way it is presented IS misinformation, taking results and combining them to present a point is misleading.
You said"That poll is not surprising either as 48% of Canadians think Israel is apartheid."
Your chart shows me:
38% of all Canadians believe Israel is a state with segregation similar to apartheid.
20% see it as a state with restricted minority rights.
31% see it as a flawed democracy.
11% see it as a vibrant democracy.
So I could make a chart saying that 89% of Canadians said that Israel is an apartheid state, a state with restricted minority rights or a flawed democracy.
You see how this is misleading? It leads you to believe that 89% of the respondents believed all 3.
Before you say misleading and misinformation are different, the definition of misinformation is "incorrect or misleading information".

My only mistake was a typo, using 48% instead of 58%.
Apartheid = restricted minority rights.

Trying to argue whether its 38% or 58% of Canadians who say Israel is apartheid is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
The combo of apartheid and genocide charges will sink Israel. Hamas never could. but Israeli policy will do it for them.

The NDP already call Israel apartheid. Trudeau's stance is killing the liberals almost as much as Biden is doing in the dems.

Biden will eventually stop Netanyahu, then Netanyahu will be done and the political battle to fix Israel will begin for real.

https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3/ys/r/T1oMBrgJQCd.png

 

[Frankfooter]

Once again you attempt to justify the Oct. 7 attack which initiated this current conflict.

OK. Let's just say that they were justified, so you don't have to post any videos or history blah, blah, blah.

With what's happening in Gaza now, was Oct. 7 worth it? In retrospect do you think that it was a good move?

Yes or no or are going to:
View attachment 274952

Has zionism been worth it?
Do you think the Jewish people are now safer?

 

[PeteOsborne]

Just to clarify this poll EKOS did the research and Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East posted the chart below.

The above chart notes it excludes respondents who answered "I don't know" and is based on the research below which includes the 29% or 315 of 1089 people polled.
Percentages drop from 38 to 27,20 to 14,31 to 22 and 11 to 8 when 29% of responses are added .
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/cj...with_residuals__n_1089_(Aug10).pdf?1693425097

 

[PeteOsborne]

My only mistake was a typo, using 48% instead of 58%.
Apartheid = restricted minority rights.

Trying to argue whether its 38% or 58% of Canadians who say Israel is apartheid is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
The combo of apartheid and genocide charges will sink Israel. Hamas never could. but Israeli policy will do it for them.

The NDP already call Israel apartheid. Trudeau's stance is killing the liberals almost as much as Biden is doing in the dems.

Biden will eventually stop Netanyahu, then Netanyahu will be done and the political battle to fix Israel will begin for real.

https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3/ys/r/T1oMBrgJQCd.png

No, you got the 48% right, I forgot to add that when I first hit submit but I realized I forgot to include it after I had posted so I fixed it a while ago, most likely after you had first read it, sorry my bad.
As fo the NDP stance it goes along with the resuls of the poll you posted.
Remember?" A significant majority (64%) of NDP supporters view Israel as a state with segregation similar to apartheid, as do a majority (53%) of BQ supporters. Meanwhile, 33% of Liberal supporters view Israel in this way."
I wonder why the Conservative responses were not included in this statement on the report by Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East .

 

[shack]

Has zionism been worth it?

Coward.

Answer the question I already asked you and then with a yes or no and I'll answer your question.

With what's happening in Gaza since Oct. 7, do you think that the attack was a good move?

 

[Frankfooter]

No, you got the 48% right, I forgot to add that when I first hit submit but I realized I forgot to include it after I had posted so I fixed it a while ago, most likely after you had first read it, sorry my bad.

I appreciate you taking the time to check sources, but really, its not the issue.
The issue is that Canadians see Israel increasingly as apartheid and its costing politicians support to say otherwise.
There is no chance those numbers will do anything but increase.

Once American and Canadian politicians realize they can no longer support Israel then international sanctions will start.
Its coming.

 

[Frankfooter]

Coward.
Answer the question I already asked you and then with a yes or no and I'll answer your question.

With what's happening in Gaza since Oct. 7, do you think that the attack was a good move?

I don't respond to your anger, threats and racism, shack.

Your taunts are pathetic, you're not even man enough to take your views to a Palestine protest and say them out loud.
You are now afraid of Canadians.

So, just like we know you support killing babies and genocide through your refusal to deny them, you also understand that zionism has been a total failure. It has not made Jews any safer and only increased antisemitism. I'd comment on what genocide and the occupation is doing to the Palestinians but since you're such a racist I know it would only make you feel satisfied.

Zionism will be the last settler colonial movement.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1724951937538527456

 

[PeteOsborne]

I appreciate you taking the time to check sources, but really, its not the issue.
The issue is that Canadians see Israel increasingly as apartheid and its costing politicians support to say otherwise.
There is no chance those numbers will do anything but increase.

Once American and Canadian politicians realize they can no longer support Israel then international sanctions will start.
Its coming.

The issue is credibility, when you post incorrect or misleading items, your credibility decreases.
Therefore your input on the matter is taken with less regard.
From the poll you posted about earlier.
https://files.constantcontact.com/3ffcf3a6301/7140687e-e4a8-453f-8827-9efbb6e6df4b.pdf
The interesting thing I noticed was that when asked " Would a politician calling for a ceasefire increase, decrease or have no impact on your favourability of them? (all voters)".
53% said it would have no impact on thier favourability of that politician.

So it doesn't seem to matter to half of Canadians polled what stance a politcian takes on a ceasefire.

 

[Frankfooter]

The issue is credibility, when you post incorrect or misleading items, your credibility decreases.
Therefore your input on the matter is taken with less regard.
From the poll you posted about earlier.
https://files.constantcontact.com/3ffcf3a6301/7140687e-e4a8-453f-8827-9efbb6e6df4b.pdf
The interesting thing I noticed was that when asked " Would a politician calling for a ceasefire increase, decrease or have no impact on your favourability of them? (all voters)".
53% said it would have no impact on thier favourability of that politician.
View attachment 274987
So it doesn't seem to matter to half of Canadians polled what stance a politcian takes on a ceasefire.

I post the links to the sources, Pete, and you haven't found anything I've said to be wrong, only that you favour different interpretations like this:
You think that 53% is more important than the 33% who said it would impact their favourablity?
If I was a politician I'd be way more worried that 1/3 of your supporters might change their vote based on this stance.

That's all it would take to turf a party.
But your interpretation would have it look like there are no repercussions.
So which looks more relevant less like misinformation here?

 

[PeteOsborne]

I have no doubt he is qualified. He must be given his credentials. But I am talking about neutrality. He comes from a pro-Israel partisan country writing for pro-Israel partisan media. I will instead take a neutral UN observer or wait for the ICC investigation to conclude. I am pretty sure they will find evidence of war crimes by Israel.



When you think that travelling to the middle east somehow gives you more knowledge about the conflict than actual scholars on the subject. That's akin to conducting your own COVID research and refusing the vaccine.

Just doing some background reading and came across this article in which he is critical of the coaliton forces handling of urban warfare in Mosul, Iraq and he calls for revamping of eight rules of urban warfare and why they should be changed to protect civilians.
In Mosul, a force of over one hundred thousand attacked somewhere between five and twelve thousand enemy fighters defending the city. The nine-month battle is reported to have killed over ten thousand civilians, caused an estimated two billion dollars in damage to the city, created ten million tons of debris, and displaced over 1.8 million of the city’s residents.
These rules still exist and reading through, it is what is going on in Gaza down to the use of subterranean infrastructure.
https://mwi.usma.edu/the-eight-rules-of-urban-warfare-and-why-we-must-work-to-change-them/
He doesn't appear to take sides.
In his conclusion:
"Since modern militaries do not sufficiently understand the city attack as terrain-based positional warfare, they apply the principles, tools, and methods of enemy-based maneuver warfare that rely on maneuver and firepower. Ultimately, this fundamental misunderstanding leads to the destruction of entire cities, building by building.

If militaries fail to address these rules, the city attack will remain one of the missions with the most tactical, accidental, and political risk. It will continue to drive combat into urban areas where weaker combatants can use the advantages they gain for short-term political wins."

 

[Klatuu]

The political reality is already changing

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1725213300689158633

 

[richaceg]

The political reality is already changing

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1725213300689158633

LoL...isn't that what UN proposed 1948? which the palestinians turned down? If the palestinians finally agree to a Palestinian State...what took them this long?

 

[kyleb899]

FREE PALESTINE

 

[mandrill]

No Pete, you are wrong and your accusation of misinformation is ungrounded.

The statement on the image is correct, it states 77% of Canadians support a diplomatic solution OR taking no action.
That is backed up by the numbers you posted. This image was posted in response to Trudeau's government taking an active role by backing the Israeli position.

That poll is not surprising either as 48% of Canadians think Israel is apartheid.

Survey: Canadians view Israel as apartheid, not a vibrant democracy

A recent survey finds that when Canadians are presented with possible descriptions of Israel, the most popular opinion is that Israel is “a state with segregation similar to apartheid.” Only a small minority view Israel as a “vibrant democracy.” The findings provide a profound challenge to...

www.cjpme.org

The poll speaks for itself. Only 35% support Canada diplomatically pressuring for a ceasefire.

14% support unconditional support for Israel.

 

[mandrill]

No, toguy.

None of the violence is acceptable.
But in order to stop it you need to address the root problems.
The occupation and colonization of Palestine.

And since Palestine has been wiped off the maps the only peaceful solution is to end apartheid and give Palestinians full citizenship, human rights and the vote.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1713551569096986677

Frankie, the sane interpretation of that image is that Israel is attempting to avoid unnecessary civilians deaths by warning people to evacuate a war zone. Nothing supports the position that Israel wants to inflict large civilian casualties.

 

[shack]

I don't respond to your anger, threats and racism, shack.

You've been responding up until now. What changed?

I calmly asked this:
With what's happening in Gaza since Oct. 7, do you think that the attack was a good move?

Where is the anger, threats and racism?

I am simply asking a reasonable question as I am interested in hearing your opinion.

But for someone who loves to tell us all what he thinks, all of a sudden you are afraid to tell us your opinion. How strange.

I asked above, what changed? This:

You are cornered and now you are simply lashing out. You are unhinged (but not unfringed) and showing your frustration when you can't gaslight at will and the flaws, inconsistencies and hypocrisy of your statements are exposed using fact, logic and best of all, using your own words against you. You are cornered.

It's ok Fringie. You don't have to answer for me to prove what a phony you are and how much hate you have. But just for old time sake and tradition:

With what's happening in Gaza since Oct. 7, do you think that the attack was a good move? I hope you have a Smurfy day.

 

[mandrill]

Mandrill also supports full ethnic cleansing and collective punishment.

Sure. Post a link to whatever post I said that. I'll wait.

 

[shack]

Has zionism been worth it?

Is this a rhetorical question?

Clearly it has. The goal was the creation of Israel. Look on a map.

Do you think the Jewish people are now safer?

Compared to during the Holocaust? Who could deny that they are? Another rhetorical question. LOL.

By the way. that's a pretty ominous sounding question. Almost like there should be a little more to it. It almost sounds like a threat.

So tell us, what does that question mean? Safer from whom? Safer from what?

 

[Klatuu]

More changes to the political reality

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1725228692132282873

 

[Butler1000]

Everyone here already knows where you stand, Slobodan. You should be happy I'm trying to find supporters for your plan of ethnic cleansing and collective punishment for Palestinian civilians.

Its less about support really and more about indifference. After 75 years the Palestinians are the bad cousin you no longer invite to family functions, just shake you head at, and know you will some day have to attend their funeral, pay respects, but really aren't too worried about it.