Is there a Holocaust Industry?

[onthebottom]

This is the only thread I've ever read on TERB that would improve if it became a Bush bashing thread.

TOV, DQ - I think Bush is a military hero and genius



OTB

 

[LancsLad]

This is the only thread I've ever read on TERB that would improve if it became a Bush bashing thread.

TOV, DQ - I think Bush is a military hero and genius



OTB

Okay, since someone else started I'll join in to lighten the mood.

Must ask DATYDude what a tallis is?

I led a sheltered life, althogh you know the one about where the guy went to the moile (sp?) and said " Leave the sides long, just a little off the tip"

 

[sparty86]

Ok , would you mind for a moment read back my previous post just one more time and interpret what I have said, please do that then I will gladly follow up to your next point!

Here this is what I have said earlier

We don’t live alone in a Jungle; we live in circle and in various communities
As an individual we , will all die and our existence will fade from memory. However, as nations we will endure through history.

We will be judged as a nation of people and embraced for our communal goodness or cursed for our combined wickedness. .
. . . So how can I view a Jew only as an individual when Jews themselves pursue their commitment to their Jewish ness, political existence, and Jewish traditions collectively?

Then if you may please weight them up alongside the historical events of Ukrainian War of Liberation of 1648-1654
Which Dr. Robert S. Wistrich's elegantly summarized below

"All over Europe the Jews enjoyed the greatest tranquillity during the eighteenth century. In Poland alone they fared badly for having once lived too well. They had been prosperous there up to the middle of the seventeenth century. Rich, powerful, they had lived on an equal footing with the Christians, treated as though of the people amid whom they lived; but they could not help giving themselves up to their usual commerce, their vices, their passion for gold. Dominated by the Talmudists they succeeded in producing nothing beyond commentators of the Talmud. They were tax collectors, spirit-distillers, usurers, seigneurial stewards. They were the noblemen's allies in their abominable work of oppression, and when the Cossacks of Ukraina and Little Russia had risen, under Chmielnicki, against Polish tyranny, the Jews, as accomplices of the lords, were the first to be massacred. It is said that over 100,000 of them were killed in ten years, but just as many Catholics and especially Jesuits, were killed as well."

Get from here, Jew hater! The nazi boards will welcome you with open arms.

 

[DATYdude]

Sparty

Very subtle!

Llad - a tallis (talit) is a special fringed prayer shawl, can be worn by any Jewish male (some women too in the more liberal brances) who has had a bar matzvah, is mandatory for prayer by married men.

 

[LancsLad]

Very subtle!

Llad - a tallis (talit) is a special fringed prayer shawl, can be worn by any Jewish male (some women too in the more liberal brances) who has had a bar matzvah, is mandatory for prayer by married men.

Thank you.

 

[onthebottom]

Very subtle!

Llad - a tallis (talit) is a special fringed prayer shawl, can be worn by any Jewish male (some women too in the more liberal brances) who has had a bar matzvah, is mandatory for prayer by married men.

I've seen them, now I know what they're called. See boys and girls, even on a racist thread you can learn something.

Thanks

OTB

 

[cyrus]

The plain fact is that cyrus is not reformable, he has no powers of self-criticism or he might recognize that some of the criticisms of him are valid.

There is just no point.

"they could not help giving themselves up to their usual commerce, their vices, their passion for gold. Dominated by the Talmudists they succeeded in producing nothing beyond commentators of the Talmud. They were tax collectors, spirit-distillers, usurers, seigneurial stewards. They were the noblemen's allies in their abominable work of oppression"

-- are these the words of someone who is anything less than a fanatic?

Look what your wrote above! Obviously,you are just too Dim headed to debate this sensitive topic, thus move on!
For everyone else’s information

Professor Robert S. Wistrich is the person who wrote this article summarizing the work of Bernard Lazare about "Anti-Semitism and Revolution"
in his famous book
Anti-Semitism: The Longest Hatred
which is about the history and causes of anti-Semitism in Eroupe. A book that is obviusly too complicated for DATYdude feeble mind to read or understand.
But the minimum that one could do is to look it up for oneself before making stupid comments about it.

This is the article that DATYdude thinks, I wrote:

"All over Europe the Jews enjoyed the greatest tranquillity during the eighteenth century. In Poland alone they fared badly for having once lived too well. They had been prosperous there up to the middle of the seventeenth century. Rich, powerful, they had lived on an equal footing with the Christians, treated as though of the people amid whom they lived; but they could not help giving themselves up to their usual commerce, their vices, their passion for gold. Dominated by the Talmudists they succeeded in producing nothing beyond commentators of the Talmud. They were tax collectors, spirit-distillers, usurers, seigneurial stewards. They were the noblemen's allies in their abominable work of oppression, and when the Cossacks of Ukraina and Little Russia had risen, under Chmielnicki, against Polish tyranny, the Jews, as accomplices of the lords, were the first to be massacred. It is said that over 100,000 of them were killed in ten years, but just as many Catholics and especially Jesuits, were killed as well."

Professor Robert S. Wistrich
http://www.acpr.org.il/people/rwistrich.html

Robert S. Wistrich holds the Neuberger chair for Modern European History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and is head of its Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Anti-Semitism. He is the author and editor of 23 books, several of which have won international awards. These include Socialism and the Jews (Oxford University Press, 1982), The Jews of Vienna in the Age of Franz Joseph (OUP, 1989) which won the Austrian State Prize for Danubian History and Antisemitism, the Longest Hatred (Pantheon, 1992) which received the H.H. Wingate Prize for non-fiction in the UK. It was also the basis for the PBS film documentary which Professor Wistrich scripted and co-edited. His most recent books are: Hitler and the Holocaust (Random House, 2001) and the edited volume Nietzsche. Godfather of Fascism? (Princeton, 2002). Between 1999 and 2001 Professor Wistrich was one of six scholars who were appointed to an international Catholic-Jewish historical commission to examine the wartime record of Pope Pius the XII. More recently, in June 2003, he initiated and acted as Chief Historical Advisor for a BBC film documentary on contemporary Muslim anti-Semitism, entitled “Blaming the Jews”.

Bernard Lazare, 1865-1903
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/lazare-bernard/

BOOKS:

Antisemitism: Its History and Causes, 1894

Jews and Israelites, 1890

Anti-Semitism and Revolution, 1899

Jewish Solidarity, 1890

 

[sparty86]

Look you are just too stupid to debate this sensitive topic, thus move on!
For everyone else’s information

Professor Robert S. Wistrich is the person who wrote this article
in his famous book
Anti-Semitism: The Longest Hatred,
which is about the history and causes of anti-Semitism in Eroupe. A book that is obviusly too complicated for DATYdude feeble mind to read or understand.
But the minimum that one could do is to look it up for himself before making stupid comments about it.

This is the article that DATYdude thinks, I wrote:

"All over Europe the Jews enjoyed the greatest tranquillity during the eighteenth century. In Poland alone they fared badly for having once lived too well. They had been prosperous there up to the middle of the seventeenth century. Rich, powerful, they had lived on an equal footing with the Christians, treated as though of the people amid whom they lived; but they could not help giving themselves up to their usual commerce, their vices, their passion for gold. Dominated by the Talmudists they succeeded in producing nothing beyond commentators of the Talmud. They were tax collectors, spirit-distillers, usurers, seigneurial stewards. They were the noblemen's allies in their abominable work of oppression, and when the Cossacks of Ukraina and Little Russia had risen, under Chmielnicki, against Polish tyranny, the Jews, as accomplices of the lords, were the first to be massacred. It is said that over 100,000 of them were killed in ten years, but just as many Catholics and especially Jesuits, were killed as well."

Professor Robert S. Wistrich
http://www.acpr.org.il/people/rwistrich.html

Robert S. Wistrich holds the Neuberger chair for Modern European History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and is head of its Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Anti-Semitism. He is the author and editor of 23 books, several of which have won international awards. These include Socialism and the Jews (Oxford University Press, 1982), The Jews of Vienna in the Age of Franz Joseph (OUP, 1989) which won the Austrian State Prize for Danubian History and Antisemitism, the Longest Hatred (Pantheon, 1992) which received the H.H. Wingate Prize for non-fiction in the UK. It was also the basis for the PBS film documentary which Professor Wistrich scripted and co-edited. His most recent books are: Hitler and the Holocaust (Random House, 2001) and the edited volume Nietzsche. Godfather of Fascism? (Princeton, 2002). Between 1999 and 2001 Professor Wistrich was one of six scholars who were appointed to an international Catholic-Jewish historical commission to examine the wartime record of Pope Pius the XII. More recently, in June 2003, he initiated and acted as Chief Historical Advisor for a BBC film documentary on contemporary Muslim anti-Semitism, entitled “Blaming the Jews”.

You lying Jew hater, Wistrich didn't author your little passage, it was written by Lazarre - "Born in Nîmes, in Southern France, into an assimilated Jewish family, he had arrived in Paris in 1886, where he became involved in both the Symbolist and anarchist movements." Keep spreading your lying filth.

 

[cyrus]

You lying Jew hater, ....

I actually love Jewish women, although I only socialize with the Jewish men, over smoke & a drink

So I guess I will have to count you out!
Move aside then. Thank you.
Next.

 

[basketcase]

He exposes your source as false and your response ?????????

Oh. you don't want to socialize with him. That's a well debated response.

As usual, those focused on hate have no need for reason.

Your source is racist, with his " they could not help giving themselves up to their usual commerce, their vices, their passion for gold." So what if he's of Jewish blood. Even a Jew can be an Anti-Semite.

 

[cyrus]

I've seen them, now I know what they're called. See boys and girls, even on a racist thread you can learn something.

Thanks

OTB

Here something new to learn!

I have seen Patriotic American’s wear, this T-shit, religiously & and almost fanatically, every Sunday, on their way to churches. . .
This T-shirt has many Blue & Red "Stars and Strips" on it . . . cool Ha!

Surly, the USA flag have been designed on the basis of something that Americans would like to wear for patriotic reasons!
. . . Right!

Now, try to find some explanation in the Bible for it too, I am sure you ,such a scholar, could find something like this!

"In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying,
Unto thy seed have I given this land,
from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates.
From the Nile River in Egypt, to the Euphrates in the Near East!” Genesis 15:18 --The Promised Land

 

[cyrus]

He exposes your source as false and your response ?????????

.....
As usual, those focused on hate have no need for reason.
....

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

READ MY NOTE with SOURCES as qouted!
AGAIN . . .

For everyone else’s information

Professor Robert S. Wistrich is the person who wrote this article summarizing the work of Bernard Lazare about "Anti-Semitism and Revolution"
in his famous book
Anti-Semitism: The Longest Hatred
which is about the history and causes of anti-Semitism in Eroupe. A book that is obviusly too complicated for DATYdude feeble mind to read or understand.
But the minimum that one could do is to look it up for oneself before making stupid comments about it.

This is the article that DATYdude thinks, I wrote:

"All over Europe the Jews enjoyed the greatest tranquillity during the eighteenth century. In Poland alone they fared badly for having once lived too well. They had been prosperous there up to the middle of the seventeenth century. Rich, powerful, they had lived on an equal footing with the Christians, treated as though of the people amid whom they lived; but they could not help giving themselves up to their usual commerce, their vices, their passion for gold. Dominated by the Talmudists they succeeded in producing nothing beyond commentators of the Talmud. They were tax collectors, spirit-distillers, usurers, seigneurial stewards. They were the noblemen's allies in their abominable work of oppression, and when the Cossacks of Ukraina and Little Russia had risen, under Chmielnicki, against Polish tyranny, the Jews, as accomplices of the lords, were the first to be massacred. It is said that over 100,000 of them were killed in ten years, but just as many Catholics and especially Jesuits, were killed as well."

Professor Robert S. Wistrich
http://www.acpr.org.il/people/rwistrich.html

Robert S. Wistrich holds the Neuberger chair for Modern European History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and is head of its Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Anti-Semitism. He is the author and editor of 23 books, several of which have won international awards. These include Socialism and the Jews (Oxford University Press, 1982), The Jews of Vienna in the Age of Franz Joseph (OUP, 1989) which won the Austrian State Prize for Danubian History and Antisemitism, the Longest Hatred (Pantheon, 1992) which received the H.H. Wingate Prize for non-fiction in the UK. It was also the basis for the PBS film documentary which Professor Wistrich scripted and co-edited. His most recent books are: Hitler and the Holocaust (Random House, 2001) and the edited volume Nietzsche. Godfather of Fascism? (Princeton, 2002). Between 1999 and 2001 Professor Wistrich was one of six scholars who were appointed to an international Catholic-Jewish historical commission to examine the wartime record of Pope Pius the XII. More recently, in June 2003, he initiated and acted as Chief Historical Advisor for a BBC film documentary on contemporary Muslim anti-Semitism, entitled “Blaming the Jews”.

Bernard Lazare, 1865-1903
http://www.marxists.org/reference/ar...azare-bernard/

BOOKS:

Antisemitism: Its History and Causes, 1894

Jews and Israelites, 1890

Anti-Semitism and Revolution, 1899

Jewish Solidarity, 1890

 

[basketcase]

How does quoting a piece of work that another author (wistrich) quoted of yet another author (Lazare) sumarizing a 17th century Cossak's justification of pogroms prove anything except you like the accusations it makes about Jews? Perhaps you hope if you repeat it often enough, someone might actually believe it.

Maybe you should dig a little deeper.

http://www.ukar.org/lazare.htm

And below is Lazare's one-paragraph summary of Khmelnytsky:

All over Europe the Jews enjoyed the greatest tranquillity during the eighteenth century......

from answers.com

Chmielnicki, Khmelnytskyy or Khmelnitsky, Bohdan (all: bəkhdän' khmĕlnēt'skē) , c.1595–1657, hetman (leader) of Ukraine. An educated member of the Ukrainian gentry, he early joined the Ukrainian Cossacks. Elected (1648) hetman of the Zaporizhzhya Cossacks, he led their rebellion against oppressive Polish rule. After defeating the Polish army, the Cossacks joined with the Polish peasantry, murdering over 100,000 Jews. ...

Do you need any more evidence of you anti-semitic views?

It is ironic that your evidence of the "misuse" of the holocaust comes from a source who was in charge of murdering large numbers of Jews himself.

 

[cyrus]

How does quoting a piece of work that another author quoted of another author sumarizing the work of a Cossak justification of pogroms prove anything ?

Then read this again!
As an reply to your earlier quote that was

Originally Posted by basketcase
Again I will say it. Only a racist refuses to view people as individuals.

........
Here this is what I have said earlier

We don’t live alone in a Jungle; we live in circle and in various communities
As an individual we , will all die and our existence will fade from memory. However, as nations we will endure through history.

We will be judged as a nation of people and embraced for our communal goodness or cursed for our combined wickedness. .
. . . So how can I view a Jew only as an individual when Jews themselves pursue their commitment to their Jewish ness, political existence, and Jewish traditions collectively?

Then if you may please weight them up alongside the historical events of Ukrainian War of Liberation of 1648-1654
Which Dr. Robert S. Wistrich's elegantly summarized below on the work of Bernard Lazare in the book; "Anti-Semitism and Revolution"


"All over Europe the Jews enjoyed the greatest tranquillity during the eighteenth century. In Poland alone they fared badly for having once lived too well. They had been prosperous there up to the middle of the seventeenth century. Rich, powerful, they had lived on an equal footing with the Christians, treated as though of the people amid whom they lived; but they could not help giving themselves up to their usual commerce, their vices, their passion for gold. Dominated by the Talmudists they succeeded in producing nothing beyond commentators of the Talmud. They were tax collectors, spirit-distillers, usurers, seigneurial stewards. They were the noblemen's allies in their abominable work of oppression, and when the Cossacks of Ukraina and Little Russia had risen, under Chmielnicki, against Polish tyranny, the Jews, as accomplices of the lords, were the first to be massacred. It is said that over 100,000 of them were killed in ten years, but just as many Catholics and especially Jesuits, were killed as well."

 

[basketcase]

If your just going to repeat your anti-semitic crap, I'll just repeat my response because the topic seems beyond you.

How does quoting a piece of work that another author (wistrich) quoted of yet another author (Lazare) sumarizing a 17th century Cossak's justification of pogroms prove anything except you like the accusations it makes about Jews? Perhaps you hope if you repeat it often enough, someone might actually believe it.

It's funny how a guy who refuses to believe the incredible amount of evidence on the holocaust puts all of his faith in one paragraph, interpreted out of context mind you, explaining why Cossaks hated Jews.

You still don't deny that you refuse to accept jews as individuals; racist.

 

[cyrus]

.....
Maybe you should dig a little deeper.

http://www.ukar.org/lazare.htm


from answers.com


....

Thank you for quoting my own notes, maybe know that Sparta guy... hide his head under the pillow out of embarrassment . . .

Bernard Lazare,
The Book, Antisemitism: its history and causes,
University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln and London, 1995.
Originally published in 1894 as L'Antisémitisme, son histoire et ses causes.

As the barest of introductions to Lazare, I quote the first three sentences from Robert S. Wistrich's introduction to Lazare's book. Wistrich is Neuberger Professor of Modern Jewish History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and himself the author of Antisemitism: The Longest Hatred:


All over Europe the Jews enjoyed the greatest tranquillity during the eighteenth century. In Poland alone they fared badly for having once lived too well. They had been prosperous there up to the middle of the seventeenth century. Rich, powerful, they had lived on an equal footing with the Christians, treated as though of the people amid whom they lived; but they could not help giving themselves up to their usual commerce, their vices, their passion for gold. Dominated by the Talmudists they succeeded in producing nothing beyond commentators of the Talmud. They were tax collectors, spirit-distillers, usurers, seigneurial stewards. They were the noblemen's allies in their abominable work of oppression, and when the Cossacks of Ukraina and Little Russia had risen, under Chmielnicki, against Polish tyranny, the Jews, as accomplices of the lords, were the first to be massacred. It is said that over 100,000 of them were killed in ten years, but just as many Catholics and especially Jesuits, were killed as well. (p. 80)

 

[basketcase]

If your just going to repeat your anti-semitic crap, I'll just repeat my response because the topic seems beyond you.

How does quoting a piece of work that another author (wistrich) quoted of yet another author (Lazare) sumarizing a 17th century Cossak's justification of pogroms prove anything except you like the accusations it makes about Jews? Perhaps you hope if you repeat it often enough, someone might actually believe it.

It's funny how a guy who refuses to believe the incredible amount of evidence on the holocaust puts all of his faith in one paragraph, interpreted out of context mind you, explaining why Cossaks hated Jews.

You still don't deny that you refuse to accept jews as individuals; racist.

 

[cyrus]

If your just going to repeat your anti-semitic crap, I'll just repeat my response.

How does quoting a piece of work that another author (wistrich) quoted of yet another author (Lazare) sumarizing a 17th century Cossak's justification of pogroms prove anything except you like the accusations it makes about Jews? Perhaps you hope if you repeat it often enough, someone might actually believe it.

Please go back and read . . . read . . .and re-read again
so I don't have to r-e-p-e-a-t my crap!
T-r-y to f-i-g-u-r-e out w-h-a-t I am s-a-y-ing to you . . .soI don’t have to s-p-e-l-l out e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g, don’t you h-a-v-e e-n-o-u-g-h . . .

 

[basketcase]

I understand what your point is. A couple of "historians" have repeated the anti-semitic justification of a 17th century Cossack and therefore you take it as fact that Jews have caused the world to hate them and deserve everything that has happened to them. You believe it's not the world's fault, it's those damn Jews.

You refuse to view people as individuals so you are a racist. Don't be ashamed to admit it.

 

[cyrus]

I understand what your point is. A couple of "historians" have repeated the anti-semitic justification of a 17th century Cossack and therefore you take it as fact that Jews have caused the world to hate them and deserve everything that has happened to them. You believe it's not the world's fault, it's those damn Jews.

You refuse to view people as individuals so you are a racist. Don't be ashamed to admit it.

Antisemitism
Its History and Causes
By Bernard Lazare Introduction by Robert S. Wistrich
http://unp.unl.edu/bookinfo/2950.html

Bernard Lazare's controversial magnum opus, originally published in France in 1894, asks why the Jews have aroused such hatred for three thousand years. The journalist, though severed from his Jewish upbringing, was fiercely committed to social justice and could not ignore a shocking antisemitism in the fin-de-siècle circles he knew. In search mg for its historic causes, he was also searching for his own roots and place in the world. As biographer Nelly Wilsonhas noted, young Lazare was "constantly engaged in a dialogue with himself" when he wrote Antisemitism, Its History and Causes.

Lazare begins his "impartial study" by considering whatever in the Jewish character might be to blame for antisemitism. Then he looks outward to those nations among which the Israelites dispersed, examining the different faces of antisemitism from Greco-Roman antiquity to the end of the nineteenth century. Lazare brings his research and study to bear on whatever form antisemitism has taken: ethnic, nationalist, economic, social, literary, philosophical. Recognizing that antisemitism is fundamentally based on fear of the stranger and the need for a scapegoat, Lazare concludes with a surprising scenario for the future. This remarkable book conveys Lazare's own spiritual growth. France's Dreyfus Affair in the 1890s would galvanize him to a passionate baffle against antisemitism.

Introducing this Bison Books edition is Robert S. Wistrich, Neuberger Professor of Modern Jewish History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the author of Antisemitism: The Longest Hatred


I would however prefer to add a few more wordS to this FINAL CONCLUSION
Recognizing that antisemitism is fundamentally based on fear of the stranger and the need for a scapegoat, AND ANGER, DISAPPOINTMENT, SADNESS . . .Lazare concludes with a surprising scenario for the future