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Is there a Holocaust Industry?

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basketcase

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I don't think I ever asked for a biography.

Why is it that you choose to accept one anarchist's opinion as fact? I posted it before (but you of course ignored it) that it is clear that it is because you support the view that the Jews have caused all their own problems and deserve anything that happens to them. Regardless of the actions of any particular individual, you feel that all Jews deserve to be punished for what you think they have done wrong.

I have an idea. Why don't you stop cutting and pasting repeated biographies and try to use your own mind discuss things? Are you afraid that your views have no substance or is it that you know you are unable to convince people that you are right?

At least you now know where your antisemitism comes from
Recognizing that antisemitism is fundamentally based on fear of the stranger and the need for a scapegoat, AND ANGER, DISAPPOINTMENT, SADNESS
of groups of people and not because of the Jews actions.
 

cyrus

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basketcase said:
I understand what your point is. A couple of "historians" have repeated the anti-semitic justification of a 17th century Cossack and therefore you take it as fact that Jews have caused the world to hate them and deserve everything that has happened to them. You believe it's not the world's fault, it's those damn Jews.
You refuse to view people as individuals so you are a racist. Don't be ashamed to admit it.
SURE. .. It is everybody else's fault . . . no . .no ...it is the WORLD’s FAULT

Thus, we Jews must ALL be innocent . . .

OK . . . fine, I buy that . . .
Now would that make me any less Anti-Semitic . . . in your veiw?
What do you think? :eek:
 

basketcase

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cyrus said:
SURE. .. It is everybody else's fault . . . no . .no ...it is the WORLD’s FAULT

Thus, we Jews must are ALL innocent . . .

OK . . . fine, I buy that . . .
Now would that make me any less Anti-Semitic . . . in your veiw?
What do you think? :eek:
The usual fallacious reasoning of someone with nothing to say. You can try to put words in my mouth but it doesn't support your view or show any ability to discuss your hate with any measure of reason.

You support the view that Jews are to blame for their own hardships (as well as that of many other groups of people), based on the views of a 17th century Cossack leader (and your own warped world outlook). My view has clearly been that individuals are to blame for that individuals actions. END OF SENTANCE.

This is the debating equivalent of a boxing match with an infant.
 

cyrus

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basketcase said:
I don't think I ever asked for a biography.

Why is it that you choose to accept one anarchist's opinion as fact? ...
I listed many including
Natan Sharansky
Jewish writers and philosophers, who have been examining their own History & culture;
Israel Shahak,
Israel Shamir,
Alfred Lilienthal,
John Sack &
Norman Finkelstein

You have to understand that my goal is not to be anti-anything but to discuss a major issue, a major problem openly. . As
Dr. Oscar Levy Jewish philosophers once said,
"The question of the Jews and their influence in the world, past and present, cuts to the core of all things and should be discussed by every honest thinker.”
 

basketcase

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Perhaps you want to discuss their findings and the impact it has had on your own world view. Anyone can get a list of authors from a website.

from http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/when_victims_rule/preface-when_victims_rule.htm
Israel Shahak, Israel Shamir, Alfred Lilienthal, John Sack, Norman Finkelstein, and a few others of Jewish heritage are among the scholarly inspirations for this project. These men's courageously honest works are trailblazers away from institutionalized Jewish hypocrisy.
Funny how often these guys names appear on racist sites. (adelaide institute, gnostic liberation front, IHF, original dissent, ...)
 

cyrus

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Private Message: Very contradictory
03-02-2006, 08:40 PM
DATYdude
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 688 Very contradictory

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How you can seem quite intelligent but so stupid at the same time.

YOu definitely have an agenda, and truth isn't a necessary part if it.

You are bulshitting about socializing with Jews if you say the things you write. Of course there are Jew-hating jews, if that's who you hang out with.

All I can say is I don't hate ANYONE merely because of where they come from or how they self-identify.

You're a sad sad man.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Reply:
Open Message: Not So Contradictory

By CYRUS

You got me all wrong!:)
I have always been very consistent in my views of what I considered the “Jewish Inflexibility & extremism” with the problem in M.E.
Something that I all heartedly wish that the average Jews would someday acknowledge or at least realize as a problem.
I am not like asking them to do something about it, as it is most likely beyond all of us to do considering the way the “Elite” have everyone of us on the leash by the balls.
 

basketcase

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Are you trying to prove something by posting this? Poor you, you were criticized for your views and daty had the class to do it privately.

Your problem is you view people with Jewish blood only as Jews and blame all Jews for the actions of any of "their" people. That is what makes you a racist.
 

cyrus

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basketcase said:
Perhaps you want to discuss their findings and the impact it has had on your own world view. Anyone can get a list of authors from a website.

from http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/when_victims_rule/preface-when_victims_rule.htm


Funny how often these guys names appear on racist sites. (adelaide institute, gnostic liberation front, IHF, original dissent, ...)
SO what?????
Hey, philosophers & Scholars don't have any religion per sa but their own!
You take them for what they discuss, disagree or not, is for you to make, they could careless!
So don’t attack their nobility as you only insult yourself.
 

basketcase

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The reason their names are found on those sites is because the admitted racists are among the few that support these "noble" philosophers views.

You are still unwilling (incapable?) to discuss your view on anything besides regurgitating the ideas of others. Somehow I am not surprised.
 

cyrus

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cyrus

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basketcase said:
The reason their names are found on those sites is because the admitted racists are among the few that support these "noble" philosophers views.

You are still unwilling (incapable?) to discuss your view on anything besides regurgitating the ideas of others. Somehow I am not surprised.
What you want my Ideas?!!!!
:confused:
You must be joking . . right?

I can't even get though your head using the Thought of "noble" philosophers, never mind mine that must be full of RACIST & Anti-Something . . .what was that anti -. .S-e-m . ..
 

basketcase

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Hey, I stated my world view as clearly as I could quite a number of times. If you refuse to view people as individuals, you are a racist. Not too difficult to understand is it? This is not based on an obscure philosopher but my own ability to synthesize all the evidence I have aquired from the world around me.

You listed a bunch of names you likely got from a website as being somehow relevant. Why do you refuse to expand on their importance to you unless you are unable to?
 

basketcase

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Just to do your work for you, here are some quotes of what Bernard Lazare actualy wrote.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/lazare-anti.html
Antisemitism: Its History and Causes, 1894
from his conclusion, ch. 15
We have seen then that the causes of antisemitism are, in their nature, ethnic, religious, political and economic. They are all causes of far reaching importance, and they exist not because of the Jew alone, nor because of his neighbours alone, but principally because of prevailing social conditions. Ignorant of the real cause of their sentiments, those who profess antisemitism, justify their opinion by accusations against the Jew which, as we have seen, do not at all agree with facts. Charges racial, charges religious, charges political and economic, none of these grievances of antisemitism are well founded.
But during the last hundred years, these seemingly constant factors have undoubtedly undergone a change.256 There are no longer external legislative restrictions on the Jew; the special laws to which he was formerly subjected have been abolished, and henceforth, he is amenable only to the laws of the country of which he is a citizen (and these laws, let me remark, differing with every country constitute in themselves a factor of differentiation for the Jew). With the disappearance of discriminating laws, his own peculiar laws have also disappeared. The Jew no longer lives apart, but shares in the common life; is no longer a stranger to the civilization of the countries which have received him; has no longer a literature of his own; nor manners that mark him as different from others. In short, he has adapted himself to the mode of life of whatever nation he adheres to. And as these modes of life differ from nation to nation, they serve to create marked differences among the Jews themselves, with the progress of time creating more and more striking variety among them. Day by day they are departing from the class of occupations and the type of religion peculiar to the Jew.
Still more important, however, is the fact that the Talmudic spirit is slowly vanishing.
and his conclusion you alluded to:
In every way I am led to believe that [anti-semitism] must ultimately perish, and that it will perish for the various reasons which I have indicated, because the Jew is undergoing a process of change; because religious, political, social, and economic conditions are likewise changing; [183] but above all, because antisemitism is one of the last, though most long lived, manifestations of that old spirit of reaction and narrow conservatism
Sort of destroys the arguements you were making doesn't it? I'm sure that reading the complete works of the other authors you listed would be similarly enlightening.
 

cyrus

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basketcase said:
J...
Sort of destroys the arguements you were making doesn't it? I'm sure that reading the complete works of the other authors you listed would be similarly enlightening.
Hey I actually own & read these books. good try!

You see… we have gone thought over 100+ posts, back and forth … yet, I have not heard a single reply from any of you guys
That discussed the issues that these "noble" philosophers put forward, word-by-word or phrase-by-phrase, why is that?!

All I have heard from all of you, so far was the same old crap

Insults & accusations . . .
Not that I ready care. . because this approach is testimony to your lack of substance in regard to your position due to some serious logical problems in your debating tactics:

(1) Unsupported statements (accusations with no prove)
(2) Off topic discussions (change of direction or irrelevancy by not carefully reading the topic of discussions)
(3) Inappropriate writing strategies (abrupt shifts in tone)
(4) Unsuitable arguments (name-calling or emotionalism for reasoned arguments)
And finally (5) the use of "Circular arguments" just like your last couple of posts . . Taking my own evidences to prove my points to me!
 

basketcase

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cyrus said:
...… yet, I have not heard a single reply from any of you guys
That discussed the issues that these "noble" philosophers put forward, word-by-word or phrase-by-phrase, why is that?!
...
Only because you have chosen to ignore them. My last post clearly shows that your premis based on Lazare's writings are incorrect and taken out of context and have provided you with his own conclusion.

It has been said countless times in these 100 or so posts, there are some "bad" Jews and some "good" ones, just like exists in any culture. Some might have profited from the holocaust but many more (at least 5.1 million) did not. You choose not to accept individual choices and blame the group as a whole.

Once you chose to ignore all of those posts, the only thing left was to question your racist and repetative reasoning.

Of course, you will ignore this post as well, unless there is some insignificant point you wish to take out of context.

Taking my own evidences to [dis]prove my points to me!
Ha! Too bad you can't stay on one topic long enough for a good debate.
 

basketcase

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Another of your other heros

Natan Sharansky - a long time advocate of freedom through democracy.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16319
FP: What were your feelings and thoughts when Arafat died?

Sharansky: First, I thought that a terrorist and murderer had left this world. Second, I thought that a new opportunity for peace could emerge if we had learned from the mistakes of the past.

Oslo failed because the democratic world, including Israel, thought that peace could be made with a dictatorship. The central premise behind Oslo was that if Arafat were given enough legitimacy, territory, weapons and money, he would use his power to fight terror and make peace with Israel.
More on topic, his views on anti-Semitism http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-sharansky-f04.htm
Moreover, the so-called "new anti-Semitism" poses a unique challenge. Whereas classical anti-Semitism is aimed at the Jewish people or the Jewish religion, "new anti-Semitism" is aimed at the Jewish state. Since this anti-Semitism can hide behind the veneer of legitimate criticism of Israel, it is more difficult to expose. Making the task even harder is that this hatred is advanced in the name of values most of us would consider unimpeachable, such as human rights.
Nevertheless, we must be clear and outspoken in exposing the new anti-Semitism. I believe that we can apply a simple test - I call it the "3D" test - to help us distinguish legitimate criticism of Israel from anti-Semitism.
The first "D" is the test of demonization. When the Jewish state is being demonized; when Israel's actions are blown out of all sensible proportion; when comparisons are made between Israelis and Nazis and between Palestinian refugee camps and Auschwitz - this is anti- Semitism, not legitimate criticism of Israel.
The second "D" is the test of double standards. When criticism of Israel is applied selectively; when Israel is singled out by the United Nations for human rights abuses while the behavior of known and major abusers, such as China, Iran, Cuba, and Syria, is ignored; when Israel's Magen David Adom, alone among the world's ambulance services, is denied admission to the International Red Cross - this is anti-Semitism.
The third "D" is the test of delegitimization: when Israel's fundamental right to exist is denied - alone among all peoples in the world - this too is anti-Semitism.
Wonder if I know anyone who meets his 3 d's?

This guy directly criticizes people like you who attack Israel and Jews repeatedly. Don’t see how he supports you views.
 

cyrus

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When people criticize Israel they criticize Zionism thus they hate Jews - make no mistake about it.”


The ISRAEL’S APOLOGISTS
often refer to a letter written by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., to an Anti-Zionist Friend” in an August, 1967 edition of Saturday Review!
http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/ml_king.html
"... You declare, my friend; that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist' ... And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews... Anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so."

The fact is that this is a great framework to understand how various advocate of Israel have used statement like this to promote their cause and silence the critics.
Dr. King’s expertise as a non-violent civil rights leader and visionary are unparalleled in U.S. history. However, that does not make him an informed commentator on Middle Eastern affairs or on the ideological facets of Zionism. As impressive as the references to his views on Israel may seem, this is a textbook example of Argumentum ad Verecundiam or fallacious appeal to authority (If Aristotle or Bible said it was so, it is so)

However Tim Wise, the Antiracism writer
http://www.zmag.org/bios/homepage.cfm?authorID=96
checked the citation, and declared in an article on January, 2003, that he found no such a letter from Dr. King in any of the four August, 1967 editions of the Saturday Review or in any book by Dr. King or his bibliography as provided by the King Center in Atlanta, nor in the catalogs of several large public and university libraries.

Soon afterwards, CAMERA, a pro-Israeli organization, published a statement declaring that the letter was “apparently” a hoax.

More recently, the Scholars for Peace in the Middle East (SPME) featured excerpts from the letter prominently on its website. Despite its name, SPME is an advocacy group seeking to bolster Israel’s image on campus – a mission it claims promotes peace in the region. Ironically, right under the false Dr. King quotation is an announcement of the formation of a task force “dealing with academic integrity with respect to fabricating and falsifying data when discussing the Middle East.”
After one of the authors of this article informed SPME’s director of the quotation’s discredited status,
he replied with hostility despite the simple verifiability of the claim that the citation is incorrect. After several exchanges he replaced it with another seemingly far-fetched quote:
http://www.spme.net/

“Martin Luther King addressed the issue in 1968, in a speech at Harvard when he said: “.. You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' ...When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews... And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe...When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews - make no mistake about it.”

(see the end of the page on this site for an example)
http://www.israelactivism.com/resources/factsheets/factsheets/antizion_antisem_Factsheet.asp

When a citation for this new quote was requested, he refused to provide one, leaving visitors only with its claim that Dr. King delivered it in a 1968 Harvard “speech.” However, the language of SMPE’s new posting strongly resembles their original one -- on account of the fact that it too comes from the same discredited “Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend.”
 

red

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Cyrus

please stop. You may or may not think you are engaged in some intellectual pursuit; but in my opinion, you are either are an anti-semite or are just foolish enough to play into their hands. This thread is inappropriate, hateful, and demeaning. It also reflects poorly on your character. For shame sir, for shame.
 

DATYdude

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Oh, And Back To The Original Question:

No, there is no Holocaust industry, except that of the deniers. Hopefully it will go bankrupt for lack of a market, eventually.
 

sparty86

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DATYdude said:
No, there is no Holocaust industry, except that of the deniers. Hopefully it will go bankrupt for lack of a market, eventually.
It is amazing that the little Jew hater has any time for TERB. He obviously spends hours and hours on the nazi sites eating up this racist shit to be regurgitated on our beloved board.
 
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