Is the Kessel trade the greatest fleecing in NHL history?

[fmahovalich]

I really was not talking about salary cap hit...

I was in the NHLPA Players site.....and took numbers directly...


So am comparing APPLES TO APPLES....

In fact I was quite surprised how many teams and players have 6 digit contracts.

ANYWAY...back on topic.....KESSEL is holding his own..against the league.....perhaps not in the eyes of the TORONTO FANS!!

 

[fmahovalich]

I am not saying I am happy with Kessel.....

I am saying.,..based on my list....that I would not be happy with very many people getting paid that money!

But in view of the thread...doing the comparison...AS of this point...based on Head to head with SEGUIN.....and based on head to head against comparable paid players...the LEAFS did not get fleeced.

What would be interesting though is to see a value system...

ie...How much does each point COST.....in Kessels case..we are paying just under $100,000 per point.

There are many high point getters out there who are costing far less per point....Duchene in Colorado is but one of many examples where COST/POINT is very good value!

 

[Malibook]

The Leafs could finish ahead of 10 or so teams making the Kessel trade much more palatable.
If they ditched Toskala sooner the trade would have been good.
I like Kessel and I think his problem is playing with Bozak.

 

[frankpost]

.. Although you don't make that type of trade unless you have a allstar goalie ..

Cannot say that I can agree with you. When Fletcher came in 1992 and made that Gilmour fleecing from his ex-team. Then he acquired Grant Fuhr from Edmonton. By your logic, he should have acquired Grant Fuhr first (who knows if Gilmour would have still been available). Trade proposals come and go and are made when the GM thinks it make sense. (You snooze, you loose in some instances). Burke's logic is simple ... Kessel has the potential to be a bonafide star and last years and this years draft is weak at best (having said that, I do believe that Burke thought his team would end up second last).

 

[fmahovalich]

I am doubtful BURKE made the deal for two first rounders...believuing he would finish second last.

He picked him up hoping to improve the team..and he did just that.

They are 20 points (Will be) ahead of last season.....TOP 5 since the allstar break....

And I suspect will easily make the playoffs next year.

So ..this years...Boston gets a relatively bad pick considering the LEAFS current position.

Which further gives credence that the leafs did NOT GET FLEECED!!

 

[shack]

After scoring all of one goal in the first 5 periods against the "Steel Curtain" Canadiens, I wonder if the Bruins fans are sitting back contentedly saying, "It's OK. We don't need a sniper like Kessel. We have two first rounders, even though one of them has been a healthy scratch so far and we have no idea how good the second one will be even though he will be a lower pick than the first. It doesn't matter. We fleeced the Leafs, according to some of their fans."

 

[shack]

Sorry, I forgot mention that is 1 goal in 5 periods, AT HOME.

Wouldn't want to omit any factual details.

 

[shack]

Game over. Montreal only scored 4 goals in two games so it wasn't a problem with the Boston defense or goaltending. It was their non-existent offense.

 

[MojoRisin']

I think it was Glen Healey tonight that said during the broadcast, " Hey Burke, Charrelli is on the phone and would like Kessel back" lmao. I hate Healey but that was funny

 

[shack]

I think it was Glen Healey tonight that said during the broadcast, " Hey Burke, Charrelli is on the phone and would like Kessel back"

Missed that. I was watching the game but listening to music with headphones on for most of it.

 

[The Bandit]

I think it was Glen Healey tonight that said during the broadcast, " Hey Burke, Chiarrelli is on the phone and would like Kessel back" lmao. I hate Healey but that was funny

I thought it was a good one liner too.

 

[splooge]

Don't be silly Healey. Boston traded Kessel because of CAP ISSUES... and since the contract negotiations, he's paid more than Jeff Carter now..

of course they miss his offence, but I bet they miss Savard's offence more. still, the comment made me chuckle.

 

[theycallmebruce]

To Kessel's credit, he scored over 30 goals without having a bonafide centre, nothing against Bozak....
How many more goals would Phil have if he had a Scotty Gomez ??? Burkie needs to find a pass first type centre for him..

 

[fmahovalich]

Bruins announcers were commenting after Montreals win to take Game 2 ..IN BOSTON!!!!
- how "NICE it would have been to have Kessel in the lineup" !!!!

And I further note....Tyler SEGUIN is not in the lineup for the playoffs. That has to be a HUGE disappointment for the Bruins!!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

And I further note....Tyler SEGUIN is not in the lineup for the playoffs. That has to be a HUGE disappointment for the Bruins!!

It's a disappointment maybe to people who don't understand how players develop.
He was born on Jan 31, 1992. For his development, he should have spent the year in junior hockey instead of with the Bruins.
With Seguin, Bruins are'nt really going to have a good idea of what they have until a couple of years from now.

 

[Casa_Nova]

With Seguin, Bruins are'nt really going to have a good idea of what they have until a couple of years from now.

Assuming he's still a Bruin by then

 

[shack]

We often talk about who won deals and a argument could be made both teams lost in this trade .

Interesting that you said the same thing in December. It is still up in the air for now, though.

The difference may be that the Leafs have picked up some 1st rounders to (hopefully) complement their (hopefully) improving youth and can build around Kessel to improve his value to the team. Plus they have significant cap space.

If the "B's" get bounced by Mont. they may have to rethink their whole model as it stands now and take a few steps backwards.

The Leafs may actually be in a better position than Boston in terms of future success.

 

[maurice93]

Interesting that you said the same thing in December. It is still up in the air for now, though.

Of course there is a cap so please take somebody off the Bruins roster instead of Kessel - I have always used Horton because the Bruins essentially used the type of picks that they got beyond Seguin to get him. And when did Kessel become Wayne Gretzky and give the Bruins four extra goals just to send the last two games to overtime?

The difference may be that the Leafs have picked up some 1st rounders to (hopefully) complement their (hopefully) improving youth and can build around Kessel to improve his value to the team. Plus they have significant cap space.

The picks right now are number 25 and 28.

Picks between 25-28 between 1995 and 2005 (so we can see careers). Sure there is the occassional gem in this area, but much more flops. You better hope hard just to get one solid complimentary player.



1995: Marc Denis, Maxim Kuzenetsov, Marc Moro, Jan Hlavac
1996: Peter Ratchek, Jesse Wallin, Cory Sarich, Pavel Skrbek
1997: Brendan Morrow, Ben Clymer, Kevin Grimes, Brad DeFauw
1998: Jiri Fischer, Mike Van Ryn, Scott Gomez, Ramzi Abid
1999: Mikhail Kuleshov, Martin Havlat, Ari Ahonen, Kristian Kudroc
2000: Steve Ott, Brian Sutherby, Martin Samuelsson, Justin Williams
2001: Alexander Perezhogin, Jason Bacisashua, Jeff Woywitka, Adrian Foster
2002: Cam Ward, Martin Vagner, Mike Morris, Jonas Johannsson
2003: Anthony Stewart, Brian Boyle, Jeff Tambellini, Cory Perry
2004: Rob Schrempf, Corey Schneider,Jeff Schultz, Mark Fistric
2005: Andrew Cogliano,Matt Pelech, Joe Finley, Matt Niskanen

If the "B's" get bounced by Mont. they may have to rethink their whole model as it stands now and take a few steps backwards.

Like the Penguins and Capitals did? Those teams simply retooled a bit. Give the Habs some credit - they have knocked off great teams last year, and are using the same strategy with great goaltending this year.

The Leafs may actually be in a better position than Boston in terms of future success.

Sure with Wayne Kessel leading them,

 

[shack]

If the Toronto had the Bruins roster as our team and they were about to lifelessy go down to the Habs, combined with last year's playoff collapse, people would be squawking to blow up the team.

 

[supernatural]

I don't think I would call it a fleecing, but it is going to be the trade by which Burke's Toronto tenure will forever be judged (or at least until we see how Seguin and TBA turn out).

I think the biggest thing is that couple with the defensive signings Burke made that summer a lot of people, including the Toronto Stars Damien Cox, were expecting the Leafs to make the playoffs (not necessarily go deep, but at least make them) in which case we would have been looking at two picks expected to be around the 15-20 spot in the draft in exchange for a proven commodity in Kessel who because of his age still has a very good upside.

It didn't turn out that way and that's the risk of dealing draft picks.

I think the reason why the Kessel deal has been so magnified is because a) we're still not quite where all the fans want the team to be... ie winning. b) Kessel is streaky and not always prone to good decisions, nor will he ever be a Dough Gilmour or Wendel Clark type workhorse.... whch all leads to c) we're really only judging all of the negatives about Kessel against the POTENTIAL of what those draft picks COULD have been.

Kessel has showed some improvement in the other aspects of his game this year, but admittedly probably will never be the player we want him to be (unless he pots 50 goals in which case everyone will suddenly love him). Seguin spent time on the bench this year or when he did play in a 4th line role mostly. The kids too good for the CHL at this point, and because of the eligibility rules can't go to the AHL.... who knows how this will affect him going forward (I'm still guessing he'll be a #1 centre one day, but Crosby he is not). The other two pick's (1st and 2nd) are a little bit more palatable because they are a little deeper and are more likely to be (as someone called it above) more of a complimentary player or a diamond in the rough to be developed type guy.

Given Kessel's mentality I don't know that he's a great fit for Toronto so I honestly see this ending badly one day, so its probably not a trade I would have done were I GM, but at the same time the team is better both in the short run and long run having a guy with his talents on the roster when weighed against what might have been one day a good player... I wouldn't have done it, but I don't think its as bad as what everyone thinks/says either.