Is the Kessel trade the greatest fleecing in NHL history?

[fmahovalich]

I continue to believe that...on todays date...Leafs continue to win the trade.....

Future information...and hypothetical talk....will be gauged in the future!

Kessel or Seguin could go down with a concussion and then...what if....

TODAY.....Leafs have the better player!!

 

[shack]

I continue to believe that...on todays date...Leafs continue to win the trade.....

Future information...and hypothetical talk....will be gauged in the future!

Kessel or Seguin could go down with a concussion and then...what if....
Seguin was a healthy scratch last game.

TODAY.....Leafs have the better player!!

Seguin was a healthy scratch last game.

 

[Insidious Von]

Your arguments are weak minded; the Bruins made Seguin a healthy scratch because they can. They have the talent pool to put a first round pick temporarily on the shelf. Boston has gradually built up a very strong team - frequently at the Leafs expense (Tukka Rask). Meanwhile Burke is left scrambling, making deals that at best can only marginally improve the team.

There is no commitment to winning from MLSE; Richard Peddie is being allowed to step aside on his terms. His legacy speaks for itself; he should have been flushed out long ago like the sewer rat that he is.

 

[Saskatchewan]

Kessel -22
Seguin +1

Tim Thomas, Vezina winner 08-09 (and on pace to win it again this season) vs The Monster (6-13-0 GAA 3.28, Save Percentage .890, Shut Outs 0)

Hmmmmmmmm, I wonder who would have the better plus minus?

 

[fmahovalich]

+ / - is a tough stat to gauge.....there are so many team aspects to that STAT......from Goalie abilities....team strengths...team defence....injuries....linemates...team defence....

not a true stat that can be easily distilled down...

Points is always a cut and dried number!!

 

[alwayslooking]

the funny thing is Burke seems to be doing the opposite of Sam Pollock. Pollock traded good players to a bad team to ensure he would get the first pick. Burke trades away good players even though he has no 1st pick. Even though they lost tonight I bet the Bruins are happy with the Leafs recent trades.

 

[dagwood69]

Nobody will give Burke a first line centre for Kaberle,,,

 

[smuddan]

Nobody will give Burke a first line centre for Kaberle,,,

A high pick may turn into a future first line centre. You have to have one to compete so if you can't get one thru trades or free agent signnings, the only other alternative is to try your luck in the draft.

I like what Kaberle can offer as a smooth skating puck mover, but if the priority is to collect as many blue chip prospects as possible, and also considering the need to overpay to resign him, it may be the right move to trade him now. Sometimes you have to take a step backwards so you can take two steps forward later.

 

[The Oracle]

the funny thing is Burke seems to be doing the opposite of Sam Pollock. Pollock traded good players to a bad team to ensure he would get the first pick. Burke trades away good players even though he has no 1st pick. Even though they lost tonight I bet the Bruins are happy with the Leafs recent trades.

Actually Pollock didn't give up much at all in some of his better deals. Take a look.

http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=1472

 

[r_s426]

Getting back to the original question, I think it's too soon to call this trade. I'm a Leaf's fan, but a hockey fan first and foremost. I don't plan a parade with each victory, or contemplate suicide with each loss. So, I'm not posting as a homer... or a disgruntled homer.

Kessel could turn things around next season (especially if Burke gets someone to complement his play), and Seguin could get injured and never play again, or slide into obscurity (like so many other first round pics in history). Lots of other things could happen as well.

It's just way too early to be all dramatic and call for Burke's head over this deal.

I have a family member that never made the NHL, but played long enough that he knows a lot of NHL'ers. Many of them don't want to come to Toronto for various reasons. Why put up with the media spotlight here when you can go to a smaller market, or obscure market for the same cash? So, when all these trades and free agent signings are suggested, keep in mind that not every player even wants to come here EVEN if the money is right.

 

[The Bandit]

Seguin was a healthy scratch last game.

He got 1G 1A tonight....he has only been in 5 of the 8 games Boston has played this month.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Tyler who? What's the name of the stiff the Bruins got for Kessel again? He has barely played over the past couple of months & should have spent the season in the minors. I hope they haven't ruined him by not having him spend part of the season in the AHL.

 

[shack]

You know somebody you hardly hear about .... " John Tavares " ... He was the next one

He scored last night on a quick snap shot. I think it was his 22nd. I know it is with a very poor team. He seems to be pretty consistent.

 

[2canchew]

Well. well. well. listen to that? That's the distinct sound of leaf haters a work once again and I for one am getting PISSED OFF with all this negative bullshit Im hearing. I have been a leaf fan since I was 6 years old and Im now turning 50 so I've been around for the Ballard days and let me tell you something those were the darkest days in leaf history.
The problem is simple, we are SOOOOOOOOOO starved for a winniner that when Burke was signed we all thought that every super star would follow.....and they haven't.
We all thought that it would be the Cliff Fleatcher (I know I spelled his last name wrong lol ) all over agian and Burke was going to pull off a great steal of a trade and we would be right back on track. Lets face it John Fergunson screwed whoever replaced him.
Burke told us that he would change the face of the team and he has. He has, however, signed some players that haven't pan out, out right suck and some of them are still with us. That been said ,How long did you think it would take to fix the Fergunson mistakes?
In the past 10 days he has pick up 7 picks for the 2011 draft and 2 in the first round.
As for Kessel, give him a dam center , a play maker, and see just what he can do,all you leaf haters might just be surprised...but then agian, if the Kessel trade finaly started to payoff, and the leafs starter to play REAL GOOD HOCKEY, you assholes would find somethingelse to bitch at about the leafs and Burke........like the national debt!!!!!!!!!

 

[alwayslooking]

Your anger should be focused on the Leafs as an organization not Leaf haters. This team didn't have a full scouting staff until Burke was hired. Teams that don't make near the money the Leafs do have had full scouting staffs for years. Why didn't the Leafs? I'd say because they have always been about the $$$ and have never given a shit about their fans. Sounds like a shitty organization to me. Also the reason their is "Ferguson mistakes" in the 1st place was because the Leafs were too cheap to hire a real GM

 

[Insidious Von]

Your anger should be focused on the Leafs as an organization not Leaf haters. This team didn't have a full scouting staff until Burke was hired. Teams that don't make near the money the Leafs do have had full scouting staffs for years. Why didn't the Leafs? I'd say because they have always been about the $$$ and have never given a shit about their fans. Sounds like a shitty organization to me. Also the reason their is "Ferguson mistakes" in the 1st place was because the Leafs were too cheap to hire a real GM

Such is the legacy of the Supreme Being Richard Peddie; obviously the board were not making enough money.

 

[shack]

Burke told us that he would change the face of the team and he has. He has, however, signed some players that haven't pan out, out right suck and some of them are still with us. That been said ,How long did you think it would take to fix the Fergunson mistakes?

As for Kessel, give him a dam center , a play maker, and see just what he can do,all you leaf haters might just be surprised...but then agian, if the Kessel trade finaly started to payoff, and the leafs starter to play REAL GOOD HOCKEY, you assholes would find somethingelse to bitch at about the leafs and Burke......

For the most part, I agree with you.

I really think most of these guys are not Leaf haters but fans (believe it or not). However nowadays it seems that being a fan doesn't mean pulling for the team and hoping management has made good moves, it is about being an expert and most of all a critic. Everybody knows better than the guys who have spent their careers in the game, paid their dues working their way up through the ranks and now get paid big bucks to make the decisions. And the beauty is that they get to use 100% hindsight.

I could actually respect the views of a hater who is standing by his convictions better than the so-called fans who delude themselves into thinking they have all the solutions and that they are qualified to be critics. They see and hear all these guys on TV and radio (who need to attract audiences, not make hard decisions) spouting off (notice they also don't get hired by the teams) and it's hard not to figure you can be a critic/expert as well. Everybody looks at a moron like Nick Kypreos and has to assume they know at least as much as he.

 

[alwayslooking]

For the most part, I agree with you.

I really think most of these guys are not Leaf haters but fans (believe it or not). However nowadays it seems that being a fan doesn't mean pulling for the team and hoping management has made good moves, it is about being an expert and most of all a critic. Everybody knows better than the guys who have spent their careers in the game, paid their dues working their way up through the ranks and now get paid big bucks to make the decisions. And the beauty is that they get to use 100% hindsight.

I could actually respect the views of a hater who is standing by his convictions better than the so-called fans who delude themselves into thinking they have all the solutions and that they are qualified to be critics. They see and hear all these guys on TV and radio (who need to attract audiences, not make hard decisions) spouting off (notice they also don't get hired by the teams) and it's hard not to figure you can be a critic/expert as well. Everybody looks at a moron like Nick Kypreos and has to assume they know at least as much as he.

Not this shit again

 

[shack]

Not this shit again

I can say the same thing.

You're still harping on about the JFJ era.

 

[Doc Holliday]

If the Boston pick would have been Taylor Hall instead of Tyler Seguin, i'd admit the Kessel trade would have been a bust. However, i always felt Tyler Seguin was way overrated throughout his junior career & his play this season has yet to prove me wrong. There were many high picks over the years that turned out to be nothing but stiffs: Patrick Stefan, Doug Wickenheiser, Brian Lawton, etc. Being a top 3 draft pick far from guarantees success in the NHL.

Seguin could turn out to be a decent player. However, so far, the Leafs have won that trade. But like some people have already mentionned, it'll be a few years before that trade can be fully evaluated. Tyler Seguin might not fit coach Claude Julien's style. He wouldn't be alone, which is why Phil Kessel decided he wanted to leave the Bruins organization.

Phil Kessel is still an extremely young player, with a few years of NHL hockey under his belt. He's still far from reaching his potential, and he's presently way ahead of many of today's stars (and possibly future HOF'ers) at the same age. Toronto fans should be proud that they have a player like Phil Kessel on their team. Don't you think the Habs would love to say the same thing? They're stuck with the likes of Andrei Kostitsyn & Scott Gomez over in Montreal. Nobody wants those players. Give Kessel a Marc Savard type of center & he'd easily score 40 goals, of not 50.

I consider it unbelievable that there was talk last year of the Oilers drafting Tyler Seguin over Taylor Hall. I also have trouble seeing how they could be compared to one another. Taylor Hall is a stud & will be a superstar in the NHL in the near future. Don't be surprised if no one remembers who Tyler Seguin is 10 years from now.