Steeles Royal

I think the Freedom Convoy may have already accomplished something…

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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Good question. IDK if the Ambassador Bridge is federal jurisdiction as an international crossing?
If the RCMP and the OPP cannot figure out to clear the border crossing, some heads need to roll.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
76,939
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OK, let;'s go into details. Completely agree that skin colour has nothing to do with violence. It is social-economic factors theta are important. No, facts are:

Facts:
1) Negative social-economic environment leads to more violent crimes
2) A randomly chosen black person is more likely to came from negative social-economic background

Combining (1) and (2) results in correlation (not causality):

Result 1: A black person is more likely to commit violent crime

Now, social-economic environment cannot be easily observed while skin colour can, so, skin colour is visible characteristic that can be used to predict violet crimes.

Finally, police should prevent violent crimes. Combining with the above results, it implies that more policing is needed in black neighbourhoods and for black people.

Is it racists? It depends on how you define racism. There is no hate of black people is such police behaviour - it is completely rational behaviour based based on facts. So, IMHO, it is not racism.

And, again, affirmative actions may try to break the above correlation effect that is "unfair" on individual level, but it creates unfairness on individual level for white people. And getting rich kids in college has nothing to to with race: it has everything to do with lots of money and influence. And if such kids get into college, they, most likely, take the place of regular white kids since black kids do have an advantage of a white kid when such two kids come from the same neighbourhood ans have the same accomplishments.
It disadvantages individual whites, but is it unfair?... If you argue that selection criteria are not written in stone and society as a whole benefits from upward mobility for minorities, you can argue that affirmative action is not "unfair".
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
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Ambassador bridge blockade consists of 100 people and has lasted 3 days, why?, shouldn't have lasted three minutes.
I have seen 4 bouncers clear a bar of over a hundred drunks in less than 1/2 hr.
Windsor police have 473 officers.
I think the rest of your analysis will either prove to be true, or not, but this part of your post could benefit from some insight as to what the problem is.

I suspect that you don't understand that the problem isn't just how protesters act, but also what police policy is, and how the courts address these problems.

Let's start with the problem facing police. Police know that they are charged with both upholding laws and upholding rights guaranteed by the constitution. However, dealing with circumstances where the two concepts collide requires a little more intellectual horsepower than can be found amongst the police. So what's their solution? Why, it's to pass the buck to the courts, of course!

Here's where it gets interesting. How does a litigant get an injunction against protesting/picketing? By proving that unlawful acts are being committed AND that the police are not capable of controlling the crowd and preventing their continued occurence. How does that get proved? By collecting affadavits from the police saying so. Remember, the police are only too happy to oblige with such affadavits, because they want the litigant to get the injunction. So off they go to court. Let's presume that the court issues an injunction. Guess who actually enforces it? Why, the very same police who said they COULDN'T control the protest before! If that's not a cesspool of circular reasoning, dereliction of duty, and a waste of taxpayer paid resources, I don't know what is!

Of course, that's why police inevitably lie about these circumstances - claiming a level of violence/danger that doesn't exist, claiming they are powerless to tag and remove vehicles, or powerless to issue noise bylaw violations. Claiming that things are in a state of bedlam just helps the court issue injunctions, which is what the police want them to do. However, the lying, and the sudden transformation from the Keystone Cops to the the mighty army of Asgard once a piece of paper is issued by the court (which provides the police with no more resources, or know-how, or lawful right to remove protesters than they had before) are what undermines public confidence in, and respect for, the police. It just goes to show that nothing garners respect more than good-old-fashioned doing your job, and nothing will lose you respect faster than refusing to do it.

Does that answer your question? The policing polices adopted by all police services in Canada, as well as the requirements established by the courts for injuctions, has turned large scale protests into the dog and pony shows that they are.

Hopefully, after the police finally clear out this rabble, you'll feel equally impassioned to demand that police start doing their jobs instead of asking courts to do it for them.

Course', that will apply to ALL protests - even the ones you like!
 

PeteOsborne

Kingston recon
Feb 12, 2020
2,132
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kingston
I think the rest of your analysis will either prove to be true, or not, but this part of your post could benefit from some insight as to what the problem is.

I suspect that you don't understand that the problem isn't just how protesters act, but also what police policy is, and how the courts address these problems.

Let's start with the problem facing police. Police know that they are charged with both upholding laws and upholding rights guaranteed by the constitution. However, dealing with circumstances where the two concepts collide requires a little more intellectual horsepower than can be found amongst the police. So what's their solution? Why, it's to pass the buck to the courts, of course!

Here's where it gets interesting. How does a litigant get an injunction against protesting/picketing? By proving that unlawful acts are being committed AND that the police are not capable of controlling the crowd and preventing their continued occurence. How does that get proved? By collecting affadavits from the police saying so. Remember, the police are only too happy to oblige with such affadavits, because they want the litigant to get the injunction. So off they go to court. Let's presume that the court issues an injunction. Guess who actually enforces it? Why, the very same police who said they COULDN'T control the protest before! If that's not a cesspool of circular reasoning, dereliction of duty, and a waste of taxpayer paid resources, I don't know what is!

Of course, that's why police inevitably lie about these circumstances - claiming a level of violence/danger that doesn't exist, claiming they are powerless to tag and remove vehicles, or powerless to issue noise bylaw violations. Claiming that things are in a state of bedlam just helps the court issue injunctions, which is what the police want them to do. However, the lying, and the sudden transformation from the Keystone Cops to the the mighty army of Asgard once a piece of paper is issued by the court (which provides the police with no more resources, or know-how, or lawful right to remove protesters than they had before) are what undermines public confidence in, and respect for, the police. It just goes to show that nothing garners respect more than good-old-fashioned doing your job, and nothing will lose you respect faster than refusing to do it.

Does that answer your question? The policing polices adopted by all police services in Canada, as well as the requirements established by the courts for injuctions, has turned large scale protests into the dog and pony shows that they are.

Hopefully, after the police finally clear out this rabble, you'll feel equally impassioned to demand that police start doing their jobs instead of asking courts to do it for them.

Course', that will apply to ALL protests - even the ones you like!
Yes I agree, police forces have been neutered to the point that even saying something out loud can result in them being disciplined.
But even so, the the bridge is blocked which is illegal, simple, shouldn't need special permission, no matter who they are black, yellow, red or white, any race religion or whatever, remove them with what ever force is necessary.
There should be no need for any discussion.
Either that or send in 20 NHL linesmen to show them how to break things up.
 
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fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
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So you believe minority populations should assimilate to the lifestyle of the great majority? Then the unvaxxed should do the same. Assimilate for the greater good of the society to be part of it = get vaccinated.
assiminate -
It disadvantages individual whites, but is it unfair?... If you argue that selection criteria are not written in stone and society as a whole benefits from upward mobility for minorities, you can argue that affirmative action is not "unfair".
well society as a whole also benefit from racial profiling (see my proof using simple correlations), yet people say it is not fair. We need some middle ground, and complete race neutrality (both in punishment and awards) may not be optimal, but it is the one most people agree with.
 

silentkisser

Master of Disaster
Jun 10, 2008
4,316
5,390
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OK, let;'s go into details. Completely agree that skin colour has nothing to do with violence. It is social-economic factors theta are important. No, facts are:

Facts:
1) Negative social-economic environment leads to more violent crimes
2) A randomly chosen black person is more likely to came from negative social-economic background

Combining (1) and (2) results in correlation (not causality):

Result 1: A black person is more likely to commit violent crime

Now, social-economic environment cannot be easily observed while skin colour can, so, skin colour is visible characteristic that can be used to predict violet crimes.

Finally, police should prevent violent crimes. Combining with the above results, it implies that more policing is needed in black neighbourhoods and for black people.

Is it racists? It depends on how you define racism. There is no hate of black people is such police behaviour - it is completely rational behaviour based based on facts. So, IMHO, it is not racism.
Sorry, what? You think viewing blacks as more likely to be violent is the justification for police behaviour??? And you think that is rational and not racist...

I don't even know where to begin with this. Maybe with how police statistics are bullshit. For example, area X is a black community. You decide to go in there are have zero tolerance when it comes to crime/laws. Someone jaywalks? Ticket. A kid hits another kid on the ball court? Arrest for assault. Someone is caught smoking a joint? Arrest for possession. You do this day in and day out for a month, and Area X will look like the lawless west, where politicians and police officials will say they need more resources to fight to save the community. Now, the question to ask is, would area Y, a white neighbourhood, have a similar arrest pattern if the police acted in the same way? Probably. But, instead, the white community would see warnings, or diversionary measures that would see the suspects get either a slap on the wrist or no criminal record. Now, I'm not saying this happens in every part of the United States, but it sure as fuck happens quite a bit.

You see media reports all the time about a two people arrested for similar crimes. The black one gets the book thrown at them, jail time and what not, while the white person is able to get a suspended sentence or the charges are dropped. Not, I will grant you, part of that could be economic power. The blacks defendant might only have a court appointed lawyer who is over worked, while the the white person is able to hire someone to get them off. But, frequently the court system is much more lenient on whites.

Now, there are many different reasons why black communities are messed up. One of the fallouts on the war on drugs is that black households have seen fathers and husbands sent to prison. Single-mothers raising kids and trying to keep them out of gangs or jail. The gangs thrives because the schools in the area likely suck and are massively underfunded, and there are little to no opportunities to do better. A lot of this is historical. But again, that's why BLM was born. To many people, like the police and legal system, black lives do not matter. They can be abused by police. Blacks get randomly stopped when driving or harassed in their own homes. Cops can execute them and somehow avoid prosecution.

And then you have people who think they deserve it. That they're just animals who are prone to violence and cannot help themselves but to be criminals.
 

silentkisser

Master of Disaster
Jun 10, 2008
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I was just thinking....It is interesting to me how conservatives only care about minority rights when they are in the minority....
 
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fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
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Two additional things.
Here at the company I work for we have been waiting for parts from Indiana to maintain a machine that manufactures $20,000 worth of product per hour.
It runs 12 hours a day creating $240,000 per day.
These parts got held up by the blockade causing this machine to be shut down yesterday and 10 workers sent home.
The truck diverted to Sarnia but is now held up in another blockade near that crossing, the driver is now out of hours and can't drive for 8 hours..
Companies we supply are now shutting down their sites and plants causing their workers to be sent home.
Additionally I was talking to a driver delivering to us this morning who saw the Canadian flag in the back and mentioned that he had put small Canadian flags on his mirror arms on Monday morning to show his support for the Canadian Olympic teams.
He was driving and couldn't figure out why people were giving him the finger, giving him dirty looks and shaking their head, until a jacked up pickup truck with two Canadian flags on hockey sticks and a sign with no mandates on it started yelling, honking their horn and giving him a thumbs up.
He said he pulled off at the next Onroute and removed the flags, no more negative reactions.
He said something like I served for 15 years and did two tours in Afghanistan and I can't even fly a Canadian flag in my own country to show my pride becuse of those assholes.
Made me think what do people think today when they see someone fying a Canadian flag?
Is it, there is a Proud Canadian or look at that meathead?
As was said before, we are all in this together. Like the small business that had to close during lock downs or people spending hundred of dollars for COVID tests for international travel (these test are free for everyone in the U.S.)
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
17,396
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Trudeau's fault...... somehow. :rolleyes:
Of course its his fault
He was waned this would happen

Grocery store shelves were never empty because of the vaccine mandate but will be shortly because of this blockade.
He even flip flopped for a day before making the wrong decision

He also did not act when protestors blocked pipeline construction and blocked railways
He painted himself into a corner again

He can not pick and choose which citizens have a right to protest.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
29,365
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As was said before, we are all in this together. Like the small business that had to close during lock downs or people spending hundred of dollars for COVID tests for international travel (these test are free for everyone in the U.S.)
Does these tests look like their "Free" to You??

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,823
22,243
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OK, let;'s go into details. Completely agree that skin colour has nothing to do with violence. It is social-economic factors theta are important. No, facts are:

Facts:
1) Negative social-economic environment leads to more violent crimes
2) A randomly chosen black person is more likely to came from negative social-economic background

Combining (1) and (2) results in correlation (not causality):

Result 1: A black person is more likely to commit violent crime

Now, social-economic environment cannot be easily observed while skin colour can, so, skin colour is visible characteristic that can be used to predict violet crimes.

Finally, police should prevent violent crimes. Combining with the above results, it implies that more policing is needed in black neighbourhoods and for black people.
Band aid solution, won't fix the problem.
If you want to fix the problem you fix systematic racism.
More cops will never do that.
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,670
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Of course its his fault
He was waned this would happen


He even flip flopped for a day before making the wrong decision

He also did not act when protestors blocked pipeline construction and blocked railways
He painted himself into a corner again

He can not pick and choose which citizens have a right to protest.
Exactly. I almost died laughing when I heard on one of Toronto's radio stations how our police and intelligence failed to predict this. For a whole week prior the social media was abuzz about the protesters mobilizing . Fuck, I saw it on TikTok and the Instagram, not to mention Twitter (I don't Facebook). And then (ROTFLMFAO !!!) it took them DAYS to arrive in Ottawa- apparently Canada is a pretty big country. Yet, CISIS failed to see it. They were probably looking for the elusive white supremacists and bunch of regular yahoos simply slipped pass them. Typical Canadian "public service". And as soon as they get here, Justin calls them a bunch of names and the media goes berserk. Well, here we are.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Exactly. I almost died laughing when I heard on one of Toronto's radio stations how our police and intelligence failed to predict this. For a whole week prior the social media was abuzz about the protesters mobilizing . Fuck, I saw it on TikTok and the Instagram, not to mention Twitter (I don't Facebook). And then (ROTFLMFAO !!!) it took them DAYS to arrive in Ottawa- apparently Canada is a pretty big country. Yet, CISIS failed to see it. They were probably looking for the elusive white supremacists and bunch of regular yahoos simply slipped pass them. Typical Canadian "public service". And as soon as they get here, Justin calls them a bunch of names and the media goes berserk. Well, here we are.
They had inside help.
Time to look at the police.
 

Male4Strapon

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2021
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Exactly. I almost died laughing when I heard on one of Toronto's radio stations how our police and intelligence failed to predict this. For a whole week prior the social media was abuzz about the protesters mobilizing . Fuck, I saw it on TikTok and the Instagram, not to mention Twitter (I don't Facebook). And then (ROTFLMFAO !!!) it took them DAYS to arrive in Ottawa- apparently Canada is a pretty big country. Yet, CISIS failed to see it. They were probably looking for the elusive white supremacists and bunch of regular yahoos simply slipped pass them. Typical Canadian "public service". And as soon as they get here, Justin calls them a bunch of names and the media goes berserk. Well, here we are.
in fairness, they probably underestimated just how many people had nothing better to do with their lives than hang around Ottawa for two weeks. Who knew so many people completely lost in life could navigate their way to the nation’s capital. Thank goodness for Waze or there’s no telling where they would have ended up.
 
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