Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode

[oil&gas]

France has nuclear weapons. I believe the UK is
also a nuclear power.

I don't have the data handy but I believe any of
the individual members of NATO among the UK,
France, Germany and Italy has a GDP higher than
that of Russia.

Now Trump indeed very likely wants to exit NATO
and leave Ukraine to Europe. But there is no sign he
will go as far as taking the nuclear umbrella away from
Europe.

With the above in mind why does Trump's abandonment
of Ukraine would seem so devastating from NATO-Europe's
perspective?

My answer to my own question is that perhaps Europe
simply believe they can only fight Russia on the cheap.

 

[shack]

4 more years, sweetheart

That doesn't mean you are decent human beings. Just that there are too many of you.

 

[shack]

It was clear as day during yesterday's conference Zelensky hates everything to do with Russia and so does a significant amount of Ukrainians.

Imagine that.

Look how much anti-American sentiment there is in Canada right now and they haven't even sent 1,000 tanks over our border to invade us.

Of course they're going to hate Russia. Any normal person in that situation would.

 

[Butler1000]

Aren't you torn on this subject?

Aren't you always the one who stating that the U.S. is pro-war?

I'm anti war when they don't make sense. Afghanistan was needed up to the point they killed Bin Ladin. Nation building was stupid. Iraq made no sense, Libya was even worse.

The stat I believe is the USA has been at war in some fashion for all but 15 years of its existence. Now, earlier many were when war was brought to them. But since WW2 it's been the opposite.

The problem is the USA made promises, to be the guarantee of world peace, to keep sea lanes clear for trade, and to set up and expand the tools to allow SOVEREIGN nations to run things as they see fit(democracy wise) in exchange for becoming the economic powerhouse they are. To recognize borders and do the best possible to maintain them.

And yesterday we saw the complete collapse of that promise, and all of the instability that will follow.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

It's not disrespectful, but I don't think it's a good look. Zelensky casts a diminutive figure. He needs to project himself as a leader on a global stage.

It is stage managed for him to wear those clothes as a leader of a nation that is at war.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

With his domestic agenda he will lose Congress at the midterms

You hope

 

[shack]

View attachment 412789

That's photoshopped to make trump look better.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

And men can give birth, and need tampons in the bathrooms

What are you talking about?
How is this related to this topic?

 

[shack]

But what if a new Russian regime is even more ruthless and unrestrained than Putin.

To quote your leader from just yesterday, so I know you'll accept this as a valid response:

"What if a bomb drops on your head tomorrow?"

 

[shack]

Canadians are pissed and boycotting, Mexicans pissed. Denmark pissed, Panama.

And Muslim-American voters in Michigan.

 

[shack]

But my dementia is clean.

It's "organic."

 

[shack]

Article 5 sounds great until a conflict escalates and Canadians have to go and die in a war.

That's the price of being in an alliance. And it would only occur if Russia attacks Ukraine again after a peace is achieved.

Newsflash for you: Canadians died in both World Wars even though we weren't attacked. And on top of that, they are considered heroes. Do you wear a poppy on Remembrance day?

 

[Vinson]

Refer to him as Putin. You will show deference and respect to one of the most powerful leaders in the world. A major reason for NORAD is for the US to protect Trudeau and Canada from being violated by Russia.

You pulling my leg

 

[K Douglas]

France has nuclear weapons. I believe the UK is
also a nuclear power.

I don't have the data handy but I believe any of
the individual members of NATO among the UK,
France, Germany and Italy has a GDP higher than
that of Russia.

Now Trump indeed very likely wants to exit NATO
and leave Ukraine to Europe. But there is no sign he
will go as far as taking the nuclear umbrella away from
Europe.

With the above in mind why does Trump's abandonment
of Ukraine would seem so devastating from NATO-Europe's
perspective?

My answer to my own question is that perhaps Europe
simply believe they can only fight Russia on the cheap.

Russia GDP US$2 trillion
UK GDP US$3.5 trillion
France GDP US$3.1 trillion
Germany GDP US$4.5 trillion
Italy GDP US$2.3 trillion
U.S. GDP US$28 trillion
As you can see the US has more than double that of UK, France, Germany and Italy combined. It has funded a majority of the war effort. Zelenksy must realize that. If the US walks away he cannot rely on Europe solely.

 

[The Oracle]

Zelensky knew the conditions and demands Trump had set beforehand.
So if he knew all that, then why did he fly all the way over to America just to say no to the deal??

Also, I just watched the entire debate this morning and Zelensky comes across as very abrasive.
Thats not the way to do diplomacy

I remember a report a few years ago that Joe Biden was furious with Zelenkyy on a call once. Later it was learned that Biden was screaming at him...It was over US aid and how Zelenskyy was applying social media pressure to the Biden presidency.

Zelenskyy is a relentless fundraiser and knows how to play the social media game. I read that when he got elected. He barely gave any interviews to journalists. He campaigned using YouTube for the most part..

 

[WyattEarp]

Is that why Russia had to recruit from their prisons?

Didn't California recruit prisoners to fight the wildfires?

There could be several reasons for the Russians to be doing so. It's cheap, quick and has relatively low impact politically.
I wouldn't necessarily presume the Russians are running out of manpower.

 

[shack]

Did you think of this all on your own or did you hear it on the news repeated like an anthem?

Seeing as he is not in a cult and/or have tDS like our MAGA crowd, from what I've seen, he is fully capable of independent thought.

 

[shack]

As a hypothetical, let's just say that NATO didn't exist. Why would anyone attack Canada knowing that USA will 100% intervene?

Funny hypothetical, because at this point it seems that the US is the most likely one to attack us. Is that what you meant when you said they'd intervene?

 

[WyattEarp]

So it's not really about ending a war.

It's just the price tag.

Hell, let's turn this war up a notch. If Putin can't stand the heat, get out of the Ukraine.
Let the missiles fly!

 

[Frankfooter]

And Muslim-American voters in Michigan.

They wouldn't vote for Harris and the world is stuck with trump.