How the Democrats are anti Democracy.

[bver_hunter]

Of course I blame all the GOP. That includes Cheney at the top of the list.

And Harris has embraced his endorsement. And that also means she shares his policy values.

She can lie all she wants. But the administration she is in is sending 100's of billions in arms overseas. And she is supporting it.

Do you mean ROBERT KENNEDY Jr? Because his uncle is quite dead, as is his cousin.

So now Harris is lying? Trump is the biggest liar. All what he states is practically a lie, as we noticed recently with Hurricane Milton. He politicized it with disgusting misinformation, especially when politics should be pushed aside and all parties instead work towards aiding the victims.

Yes I meant RFK Jr. A typo. Trump embracing his endorsement is not surprising as he is the one that pushed several Conspiracy Theories. The USA is not the only Nation to send arms to a Democracy like Ukraine. So does the EU, and other NATO countries like Canada and Australia. Putin is a very dangerous individual that Trump sucks up to.
However, the title of the thread should replace The Democrats with Trump. Remember January 6th, as well the very basic fact that he still cannot accept that he lost the 2020 Elections. He is the one that does not comprehend what true democracy is all about!!

 

[bver_hunter]

There are lots of Green voters who would vote Trump, I think.
Remember, some are just voting Green because they think Democrats suck but would feel bad about themselves if they voted for Trump or the GOP.
Without the Green option there, they might just hold their nose and vote for Trump.

As always, voters of any party in a FPTP system can't be assumed to be a monolith all voting for that party for the same reasons.
You get very little information about a voter's real preferences from that kind of ballot.
It's one of the many things that a systemic reform would help with, because the ballots under lots of other systems are more expressive.

There will be some Green Party supporters that may vote for him or abstain all together. They will probably be a minority. The majority of Greens and Progressives voted against him in 2020.
The Electoral College as we all know does favour the Republican candidates as was the case in the 2016 Elections. Unlikely that the system will ever be reformed although it does not represent the numerical majority such as a proportional representation.

 

[wigglee]

You do realize it is possible for both parties to not want a 3rd party to have a chance right? All I did was point out facts of the Democratic Party using the courts and other dirty tricks to do just that.

Why do you have an issue with the truth?

Yes, you've been finding fault with the Dems for quite a while now. Which in the real world means you are shilling for Trump. 3rd party relevance is a distant issue which may or may not change over time, but the issue at hand currently is a decision between Harris and Trump in a few weeks. Your posts help Trump. Congratulations, you're promoting the forces of chaos, division, racism , fascism and hatred!

 

[jalimon]

Yes, you've been finding fault with the Dems for quite a while now. Which in the real world means you are shilling for Trump. 3rd party relevance is a distant issue which may or may not change over time, but the issue at hand currently is a decision between Harris and Trump in a few weeks. Your posts help Trump. Congratulations, you're promoting the forces of chaos, division, racism , fascism and hatred!

And stupidity

 

[Butler1000]

Yes, you've been finding fault with the Dems for quite a while now. Which in the real world means you are shilling for Trump. 3rd party relevance is a distant issue which may or may not change over time, but the issue at hand currently is a decision between Harris and Trump in a few weeks. Your posts help Trump. Congratulations, you're promoting the forces of chaos, division, racism , fascism and hatred!

So what you ate saying is the Democratic Party should be above criticism, and blindly voted for?

When is there a time that the GOP won't be considered a crisis? And people are free to vote as they choose?

 

[Butler1000]

So now Harris is lying? Trump is the biggest liar. All what he states is practically a lie, as we noticed recently with Hurricane Milton. He politicized it with disgusting misinformation, especially when politics should be pushed aside and all parties instead work towards aiding the victims.

Yes I meant RFK Jr. A typo. Trump embracing his endorsement is not surprising as he is the one that pushed several Conspiracy Theories. The USA is not the only Nation to send arms to a Democracy like Ukraine. So does the EU, and other NATO countries like Canada and Australia. Putin is a very dangerous individual that Trump sucks up to.
However, the title of the thread should replace The Democrats with Trump. Remember January 6th, as well the very basic fact that he still cannot accept that he lost the 2020 Elections. He is the one that does not comprehend what true democracy is all about!!

About Israel? Yes the administration and her personally are lying. They are not working towards a ceasefire. They can have that just by stopping weapon shipments.

And the original title was about preventing the Green party via false information given from getting on the ballot. Trump had nothing to do with it.

 

[Frankfooter]

It's more Stein's goal than the Greens overall. (Even as a tiny party, there are far too many Green party members to be considered a monolith.)

Even that is a presumptuous statement.
Do you have anything to back it up?

 

[Valcazar]

There will be some Green Party supporters that may vote for him or abstain all together. They will probably be a minority. The majority of Greens and Progressives voted against him in 2020.

One of the major problems with first past the post is you can't tell.
The ballot tells you very little about the motivation of the person casting the ballot.
It isn't expressive, as we say.

People want their vote to be expressive, though. (You see it again and again where people talk about their right to cast a protest vote. They feel they should get points for their expressed views on the ballot, even though the ballot doesn't let them express their views.) That's why the electoral system changes I support almost always have a more expressive ballot.

The Electoral College as we all know does favour the Republican candidates as was the case in the 2016 Elections. Unlikely that the system will ever be reformed although it does not represent the numerical majority such as a proportional representation.

The Electoral College is sadly baked into the Constitution, which is why it has not been changed significantly since the very early days of the country, despite people trying for 200 years or more.

 

[bver_hunter]

About Israel? Yes the administration and her personally are lying. They are not working towards a ceasefire. They can have that just by stopping weapon shipments.

And the original title was about preventing the Green party via false information given from getting on the ballot. Trump had nothing to do with it.

The Biden administration clearly put some agreements in place in a joint effort with the Gulf Nations. Netanyahu was not interested in it. But Trump has stated that Israel will "fail to exist" if Harris is elected as President. What does that tell you? He does not want any negotiations in place as he does not give a crap about the number of innocent lives being lost in Gaza!!

The US Supreme Court upheld the Nevada Supreme Court's decision to prevent the Green Party from participating in that Elections after they filled in the wrong forms!!
Blame Trump's Supreme Court appointees for this decision!!

 

[Butler1000]

The Biden administration clearly put some agreements in place in a joint effort with the Gulf Nations. Netanyahu was not interested in it. But Trump has stated that Israel will "fail to exist" if Harris is elected as President. What does that tell you? He does not want any negotiations in place as he does not give a crap about the number of innocent lives being lost in Gaza!!

The US Supreme Court upheld the Nevada Supreme Court's decision to prevent the Green Party from participating in that Elections after they filled in the wrong forms!!
Blame Trump's Supreme Court appointees for this decision!!

They filed the wrong forms because the Secretary of State for that state misled them on the proper ones to file. And yes then relied on the GOP, who also wants to prevent third party candidates.

You are now defending the Trump appointed Supreme Court. How low have you fallen?

And so Biden is impotent to stop things because he doesn't have the balls to stand up to Bibi and say enough is enough. He has that power, but is too limp to use it.

 

[wigglee]

So what you ate saying is the Democratic Party should be above criticism, and blindly voted for?

When is there a time that the GOP won't be considered a crisis? And people are free to vote as they choose?

no...i'm saying that the relative dangers of both parties should be examined and compared. You only attack the Dems. Do you honestly think the Repugs would be better and "more democratic" for America and the world with tRump as prez? Hmmmm....Does Mitchell have 2 terb handles???????

 

[Butler1000]

no...i'm saying that the relative dangers of both parties should be examined and compared. You only attack the Dems. Do you honestly think the Repugs would be better and "more democratic" for America and the world with tRump as prez? Hmmmm....Does Mitchell have 2 terb handles???????

I've said no. Neither party is good. I also disagree with you. Both are equally bad for democracy. The first post is the continuing proof of that.

 

[Valcazar]

no...i'm saying that the relative dangers of both parties should be examined and compared.

That is against Butler's religion.

Hmmmm....Does Mitchell have 2 terb handles???????

LOL!!

Now, c'mon, don't be mean like that.
Their pathologies are very different.

 

[bver_hunter]

They filed the wrong forms because the Secretary of State for that state misled them on the proper ones to file. And yes then relied on the GOP, who also wants to prevent third party candidates.

You are now defending the Trump appointed Supreme Court. How low have you fallen?

And so Biden is impotent to stop things because he doesn't have the balls to stand up to Bibi and say enough is enough. He has that power, but is too limp to use it.

Yes, the wrong forms were submitted. But could they not figure that out right away and request the correct forms. After all it is the Legal personnel that normally fills out those forms.

You are hilarious if you think I am "defending those Trump Supreme Court Appointees". The same Supreme Court Appointees rules against Trump's so called "Stolen Elections" in some of the cases that were brought to the Supreme Court. Does that mean I was defending those Appointees rather than just pointing them out? You are the one that has always defended the Republicans by trying to make the Democrats look worse!!

I agree that Biden should say enough is enough as the USA are now even committing troops to the region. But Trump has less balls as he will kiss Bibi's ass by elevating him to the same level as Putin, Xi, Orban, and Kim Jong un who he passionately admires. He hates the likes of Zelenskyy as he is standing up for his people!!

 

[Butler1000]

Yes, the wrong forms were submitted. But could they not figure that out right away and request the correct forms. After all it is the Legal personnel that normally fills out those forms.

You are hilarious if you think I am "defending those Trump Supreme Court Appointees". The same Supreme Court Appointees rules against Trump's so called "Stolen Elections" in some of the cases that were brought to the Supreme Court. Does that mean I was defending those Appointees rather than just pointing them out? You are the one that has always defended the Republicans by trying to make the Democrats look worse!!

I agree that Biden should say enough is enough as the USA are now even committing troops to the region. But Trump has less balls as he will kiss Bibi's ass by elevating him to the same level as Putin, Xi, Orban, and Kim Jong un who he passionately admires. He hates the likes of Zelenskyy as he is standing up for his people!!

Bver.....

They asked BEFORE. TO MAKE SURE THEY GOT IT RIGHT. AND WERE TOLD THE WRONG ANSWER. WHAT PART OF THAT SIMPLE THING IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND. IT WAS THE DEMOCRATS WHO MADE THE MISTAKE. NOT THE GREENS. AND THEN SUED ON THAT BASIS TO PREVENT THE GREENS BALLOT ACCESS.

IT WAS A SET UP.

As for the wars. Obama lost Crimea, and started a war in Libya, continued the war in Iraq, helped destabilize Syria, which led to the migrant crisis. Joe Biden was given Ukraine to deal with, and failed.

None of that happened under Trump. And since Biden took office a full invasion of Ukraine, and a full war in Gaza. Now heading toward Lebanon.

The record, not speculation, matters.

 

[Butler1000]

That is against Butler's religion.



LOL!!

Now, c'mon, don't be mean like that.
Their pathologies are very different.

Amazing how the truth sets you off every time.

 

[bver_hunter]

Bver.....

They asked BEFORE. TO MAKE SURE THEY GOT IT RIGHT. AND WERE TOLD THE WRONG ANSWER. WHAT PART OF THAT SIMPLE THING IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND. IT WAS THE DEMOCRATS WHO MADE THE MISTAKE. NOT THE GREENS. AND THEN SUED ON THAT BASIS TO PREVENT THE GREENS BALLOT ACCESS.

IT WAS A SET UP.

As for the wars. Obama lost Crimea, and started a war in Libya, continued the war in Iraq, helped destabilize Syria, which led to the migrant crisis. Joe Biden was given Ukraine to deal with, and failed.

None of that happened under Trump. And since Biden took office a full invasion of Ukraine, and a full war in Gaza. Now heading toward Lebanon.

The record, not speculation, matters.

Yes, the Secretary of State pointed to the wrong form to be filled. That I am in agreement. However, once again you cannot comprehend that this should have been caught by the Green Party Legal team and the right paperwork should have been submitted. This is what the Supreme Court ruled against them:

The Supreme Court barred the Green Party from the ballot, finding its signatures were invalid and that even a "cursory review" by the party would have revealed the paperwork error.

When we review legal forms in my business there is always a peer review at every level that is supposed to approve and counter sign to establish that the correct documentation shall be in place........ very basic fact!!

Bullshit that it was a "SETUP", if there was a single error that was not picked up in a cursory review!!

Now do you think that if Zelenskyy was in charge instead of first ousted President and Putin puppet Yanukovych and then acting President Turchynov, that Ukraine would have conceded that easily? But hilarious how you blame Obama for losing Crimea like he fought against it.......LOL!! At least under Biden, Putin has been stopped in his tracks. Under Trump he would have given the green signal to Putin to takeover Ukraine. He has been confirming that fact when he praises Putin even very recently. Once again Putin preplanned this invasion well in advance as I pointed out and you just cannot accept that fact, irrespective of who won in 2016!!

Obama pulled out the troops eventually from Iraq. Blame the Bush Republican regime for breeding the IS IS terrorists by their direct war where they actually committed USA troops. Trump was the one to strengthen Russian influence in the Middle East, with Putin forming an alliance with Syria. He carried out a war in Syria against not only ISIS itself using Kurds as the proxy, but also against Syria. There were USA strikes on Syria army personnel and vice versa with losses of life. Then Trump threw the Kurds under the bus after they were instrumental in defeating ISIS!! Do not forget that in a matter of months of Trump in office, the US Military carried out strikes in Yemen. So it is a myth that there were "No wars started by trump"!!

 

[Butler1000]

Yes, the Secretary of State pointed to the wrong form to be filled. That I am in agreement. However, once again you cannot comprehend that this should have been caught by the Green Party Legal team and the right paperwork should have been submitted. This is what the Supreme Court ruled against them:



When we review legal forms in my business there is always a peer review at every level that is supposed to approve and counter sign to establish that the correct documentation shall be in place........ very basic fact!!

Bullshit that it was a "SETUP", if there was a single error that was not picked up in a cursory review!!

Now do you think that if Zelenskyy was in charge instead of first ousted President and Putin puppet Yanukovych and then acting President Turchynov, that Ukraine would have conceded that easily? But hilarious how you blame Obama for losing Crimea like he fought against it.......LOL!! At least under Biden, Putin has been stopped in his tracks. Under Trump he would have given the green signal to Putin to takeover Ukraine. He has been confirming that fact when he praises Putin even very recently. Once again Putin preplanned this invasion well in advance as I pointed out and you just cannot accept that fact, irrespective of who won in 2016!!

Obama pulled out the troops eventually from Iraq. Blame the Bush Republican regime for breeding the IS IS terrorists by their direct war where they actually committed USA troops. Trump was the one to strengthen Russian influence in the Middle East, with Putin forming an alliance with Syria. He carried out a war in Syria against not only ISIS itself using Kurds as the proxy, but also against Syria. There were USA strikes on Syria army personnel and vice versa with losses of life. Then Trump threw the Kurds under the bus after they were instrumental in defeating ISIS!! Do not forget that in a matter of months of Trump in office, the US Military carried out strikes in Yemen. So it is a myth that there were "No wars started by trump"!!

Then why did the Democrats fight to keep them off the ballot?

 

[bver_hunter]

Then why did the Democrats fight to keep them off the ballot?

The documentation was not legal.......Period!!

 

[Butler1000]

The documentation was not legal.......Period!!

As a result of the Democrats "mistake". If they had ethics they would have accepted the forms, admitted tgey made an error and allowed the ballot access. Instead they used it to block access. The definition of anti democratic.

No better than the GOP. Again.

And Bver, if you think every single Green Party member didn't know, you are quite mistaken. They will carry that knowledge when voting into the booth. That it was the Democrats who denied them the candidate they wanted to vote for.