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Hamas leader killed in Iran

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shack

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danmand

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mandrill said:
Why would I agree with you, Danny?

Israel has a right to self defence. If the only way it can defend itself involves warfare in built-up areas, it has the right to do that and defend its own population.

Danny, when the Nazi army entrenched itself in Berlin in 1945 and dared the Soviets to come and attack it, should your commie buddies have said "Can't do that. We'll kill German civilians?"
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Repeat with Mandy, all as one, as good little boys, 1, 2 ,3:

"Israel has a right to self defense."
 
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Frankfooter

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mandrill said:
Israel has a right to self defence.
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Not legally.

Israel is the occupying power and does not have the right to self defence against the people they occupy. The right to self defence only applies to countries.
Hamas and Palestinians have the legal right to self defence against what the ICJ has ruled is an illegal occupation.

There is no rationale that can defend apartheid or genocide.
Genocide is not self defence.
 
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Frankfooter

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shack said:
I claimed that Israel had not annexed the West Bank or Gaza until the 6 Day War occurred.

How is that fantasy?

Wiki:
The West Bank, including East Jerusalem, has been under military occupation by Israel since 7 June 1967, when Israeli forces captured the territory, then ruled by Jordan, during the Six-Day War.[a]
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Your fantasy is the zionist fantasy that zionists have rights to all of Palestine, Smotrich.
At least now you are admitting that Israel must give back all of the occupied territories according to the ICJ.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820555757911453714
 
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shack

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Frankfooter said:
Not legally.

Israel is the occupying power and does not have the right to self defence against the people they occupy. The right to self defence only applies to countries.
Hamas and Palestinians have the legal right to self defence against what the ICJ has ruled is an illegal occupation.
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Good story.

BTW, Hamas and Palestine are not countries and as such have no legal right to self defence.
 
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Leimonis

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mandrill said:
Danny, when the Nazi army entrenched itself in Berlin in 1945 and dared the Soviets to come and attack it, should your commie buddies have said "Can't do that. We'll kill German civilians?"
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Also, Germans lost quite a bit of territory as a result of ww2.
I don’t see them still fighting for it. I don’t see them claiming to be refugees.
Why is it? is it because they have working brains? Is it because they comprehend that nice life is better than a shitty war?


After World War II, several German territories were annexed and transferred to neighboring countries. The most notable changes were:

1. **Eastern Territories**: Large areas of eastern Germany were ceded to Poland and the Soviet Union. This included:
- **East Prussia**: Northern East Prussia, including Königsberg (now Kaliningrad), was annexed by the Soviet Union.
- **Pomerania**: Most of Pomerania was transferred to Poland.
- **Silesia**: Most of Silesia was transferred to Poland.

2. **Territories in the West**: Some areas were adjusted but not as extensively as in the east. For example, the Saarland was temporarily placed under French control and later became a part of West Germany after a plebiscite in 1955.

These territorial changes resulted in significant population movements, with millions of Germans being expelled from the transferred territories.
 
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basketcase

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danmand said:
...

The problem with your argument is that Israel is practicing ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Palestinians (180,000 perished so far)...
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I disagree about genocide and have no clue where you get the ridiculous 180,000 number from as even hamas' ministry of health say around 40 with some percentage being combattants.

I don't like the amount of civilian death. I also don't like that there is no conceivable way to prevent Hamas from continuing their attempts at genocidal/ethnic cleansing beyond hoping that one day Palestinians reject them and their extremism. Despite what Frank says, there is no route towards peace that doesn't require both Palestinians and Israelis to accept the existence of the other.

If you truly believed in peace and opposed ethnic violence, you would include criticism of Hamas in your statements. Before the 7th, conditions in Gaza were improving with increased aid, fewer border restrictions, increased trade and increased employment in or in conjunction with Israel. Hamas saw that and the improving relations between Israel and Arab states and realized that neither serve their interest and put their plan in action, knowing Israel would react harshly and the people would celebrate Hamas again.


p.s. Frank has repeatedly defended hamas' right to commit racist violence.
 
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basketcase

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Frankfooter said:
Your racism is showing again.
They are 'Palestinians'.

You're also arguing that Palestine shouldn't have the same rights as Israel to decide who gets to be a citizen, that you think only Israel can decide that for Palestinians. Very colonial of you. Not only are you backing apartheid, genocide and settler colonialism now you're flouting the ICJ ruling and declaring that you don't support the two state solution at all anymore.

All you want is apartheid Israel and more genocide.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820285307742515276
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Ah, the moronic arguments. Are you now claiming Palestinians aren't Arabs?

And yes, as I've stated many times and you obsessively ignore, if Palestinians negotiate a state, they will have the legal right to set their own immigration laws and I will have the right to say their currently existing laws that say Jews can not be citizens, residents, or own land as outright racist.

And just a reminder that you have extensively stated Israel's immigration law giving preference to Jews is disgusting even though they do allow Christians and Muslims to immigrate and become citizens so your defense of Palestinians racist citizenship laws is your usual pathetically racist double standard.
 
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basketcase

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Frankfooter said:
...

Now the ICJ says its time to give it up and return it to Palestinians.
...
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I guess you never read the document.

The UN says Palestinians and Israelis need to negotiate a peace and it should be a two state peace based on the Green Line.
 
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basketcase

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shack said:
...

So you're saying that the Arab leaders were unprepared? We both agree that they've been poor leaders. One bad decision after another. Repercussions.
...
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Lets see. Jordan's army was supplied by British war surplus and led by British officers. Egypt was also equipped with British WWII equipment including more than 100 tanks and light tanks.

Actual historians attribute the Arab forces loss to two big factors. One was the conflicting objectives of the three major leaders, all of them fighting to be the ruler of a pan-Arab state. The other was morale and motivation. The Jewish forces knew that their choices were win or die while the Arab armies were significantly made of conscripts who saw little reason to put their lives on the line in a different country.

But this is probably the first time that you've even insinuated that Arab and Palestinian leaders made choices that have been harmful to Palestinian people.
 
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Frankfooter

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basketcase said:
I disagree about genocide and have no clue where you get the ridiculous 180,000 number from as even hamas' ministry of health say around 40 with some percentage being combattants.

I don't like the amount of civilian death. I also don't like that there is no conceivable way to prevent Hamas from continuing their attempts at genocidal/ethnic cleansing beyond hoping that one day Palestinians reject them and their extremism. Despite what Frank says, there is no route towards peace that doesn't require both Palestinians and Israelis to accept the existence of the other.

If you truly believed in peace and opposed ethnic violence, you would include criticism of Hamas in your statements. Before the 7th, conditions in Gaza were improving with increased aid, fewer border restrictions, increased trade and increased employment in or in conjunction with Israel. Hamas saw that and the improving relations between Israel and Arab states and realized that neither serve their interest and put their plan in action, knowing Israel would react harshly and the people would celebrate Hamas again.


p.s. Frank has never defended hamas' right to commit racist violence.
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The Lancet posted a study that applied standard battlefield math to counted dead and said that its likely Israel has killed over 186,000 Palestinians.

Before Oct 7 Israeli settlers had committed 233 terrorist attacks on Palestinians and Israel had already killed more children than any previous year.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1819761718119039207

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1821610993052741646
 
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basketcase

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shack said:
What? You mean that the Arab leaders accepted the land offer in 1948?

So you're saying that the Arab leaders were unprepared? We both agree that they've been poor leaders. One bad decision after another. Repercussions.
...
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Frank doesn't think Arabs are capable of making decisions or being accountable.


Let's include some facts contrary to what he's trying to suggest. Jordan's army was supplied by British war surplus and led by British officers. Egypt was also equipped with British WWII equipment including more than 100 tanks and light tanks. Israel had none and their only armored cars were ones captured from Jordan or made from civilian vehicles.

Actual historians attribute the Arab forces loss to two big factors. One was the conflicting objectives of the three major leaders, all of them fighting to be the ruler of a pan-Arab state. The other was morale and motivation. The Jewish forces knew that their choices were win or die while the Arab armies were significantly made of conscripts who saw little reason to put their lives on the line in a different country.
 
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