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Munk Debate on Zionism

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,486
19,236
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Well that's just more reason to finish what they started now isn't it?

How stupid is Hamas to distribute a video like that? Seriously?
You know what's even more stupid?
Thinking you can destroy a resistance through genocide.
There are now about 100,000 orphans in Gaza, who do you think they are going to hate as they grow up?
Do you think they will be justified to hate zionists?



 

southpaw

Well-known member
May 21, 2002
1,426
1,196
113
Would you be a little concerned that if Palestinians get their state with the ability to import and accumulate weapons they would inevitably attack israel just as they always promise to do?
They attack Israel now, don't they? Israel will be attacked regardless of whether the Palestinians have a state, or not.

The difference is, Israel could stop being an apartheid state. I suspect it will always be an ethnostate.
 

Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
8,568
8,145
113
They attack Israel now, don't they? Israel will be attacked regardless of whether the Palestinians have a state, or not.

The difference is, Israel could stop being an apartheid state. I suspect it will always be an ethnostate.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,540
2,724
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
They attack Israel now, don't they? Israel will be attacked regardless of whether the Palestinians have a state, or not.

The difference is, Israel could stop being an apartheid state. I suspect it will always be an ethnostate.

explain this




About The Sharia Courts
The State of Israel recognized the Sharia courts, their powers and the law in force in accordance with the Rule of Law, and even enacted the Kadies' Law to approve appointments recognized by Kadies who served in the courts before the establishment of the State.


Since the establishment of the State, the Sharia courts have been under the responsibility of the Ministry of Religious Affairs until they were transferred to the purview of the Ministry of Justice on February 21st 2001.
The Sharia courts have existed since the Ottoman Empire, when they served as the court of the state.
The British Mandate left the legal situation that preceded it subject to the changes it introduced, and thus the Sharia courts remained in place, but their powers were limited to matters of personal status of Muslims only.


The powers of the Sharia courts
The powers of the Sharia courts were determined in the Proclamation of the King and his Council for the Land of Israel for 1922 – 1947, in accordance with the Procedure of the Muslim Religious Courts Law for the year 1333 H., as follows:

Matters pertaining to marriage – proof of marriage, marriage permit, marriage confirmation, wedding gift and dowry.
Matters pertaining to divorce – proof of divorce, arbitration, separation and annulment of marriage.
Alimony – wife, son, father and grandfather.
Guardianship and legal competency.
Child support – visitation and hospitality procedures.
Genealogy of minors – paternity.
Management of assets of missing and incompetent persons.
Obedience – domestic peace.
Waqf – endowments.
Prevention of domestic violence – the Prevention of Domestic Violence Law, 5751 – 1991.
Conversion to Islam – the Religious Group (Conversion) Ordinance.
Financial relations between spouses - the Financial Relations Between Spouses Law.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,486
19,236
113
explain this




About The Sharia Courts
The State of Israel recognized the Sharia courts, their powers and the law in force in accordance with the Rule of Law, and even enacted the Kadies' Law to approve appointments recognized by Kadies who served in the courts before the establishment of the State.


Since the establishment of the State, the Sharia courts have been under the responsibility of the Ministry of Religious Affairs until they were transferred to the purview of the Ministry of Justice on February 21st 2001.
The Sharia courts have existed since the Ottoman Empire, when they served as the court of the state.
The British Mandate left the legal situation that preceded it subject to the changes it introduced, and thus the Sharia courts remained in place, but their powers were limited to matters of personal status of Muslims only.


The powers of the Sharia courts
The powers of the Sharia courts were determined in the Proclamation of the King and his Council for the Land of Israel for 1922 – 1947, in accordance with the Procedure of the Muslim Religious Courts Law for the year 1333 H., as follows:

Matters pertaining to marriage – proof of marriage, marriage permit, marriage confirmation, wedding gift and dowry.
Matters pertaining to divorce – proof of divorce, arbitration, separation and annulment of marriage.
Alimony – wife, son, father and grandfather.
Guardianship and legal competency.
Child support – visitation and hospitality procedures.
Genealogy of minors – paternity.
Management of assets of missing and incompetent persons.
Obedience – domestic peace.
Waqf – endowments.
Prevention of domestic violence – the Prevention of Domestic Violence Law, 5751 – 1991.
Conversion to Islam – the Religious Group (Conversion) Ordinance.
Financial relations between spouses - the Financial Relations Between Spouses Law.
Do you really want to compare that to either Orthodox Jews or Evangelical Christians?
Is that a reason to support genocide, in your thinking?
 

southpaw

Well-known member
May 21, 2002
1,426
1,196
113
  • Like
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Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
8,568
8,145
113
What is there to explain? That Israel has a minority called "Israeli Arabs" who are Israeli citizens?

Why not extend the same courtesy to all the Palestinians? Because then, they'd lose their Jewish majority, and they'd lose their Jewish state.
Maybe it’s because arabs can live in a Jewish state while Jews for some reason cannot live in Arab states. Syria, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon…something is wrong with their hospitality, isn’t it?
Country or territory1948 Jewish
population
1972 Jewish
population
Recent estimates
Morocco250000[76]–265000[77]31000[267]2,100 (2019)
Algeria140000[76][77]1000[267]50–200 (2021)[268][269]
Tunisia50000[76]–105000[77]8000[267]1000 (2019)[270]
Libya35000[76]–38000[77]50[267]0 (2014)[271]
North Africa Total~500000~40000~3000
Iraq135000[77]–140000[76]500[267]5–7 (2014)[271]
Egypt75000[77]–80000[76]500[267]100 (2019)[271]
Yemen and Aden53,000[76]–63,000[77]500[267]50 (2016)[272]
Syria15000[76]–30000[77]4000[267]100 (2019)[271]
Lebanon5000[77]–200002000[267]100 (2012)[273]
Bahrain550–60036 (2007)[274]
Sudan350[261]≈0
Middle East (excluding Palestine/Israel) Total~300000~7,500~400
Afghanistan5000500[267]0 (2021)[254]
BangladeshUnknown75–100 (2012)[275]
Iran65,232 (1956)[276]62,258 (1976)[276][277] - 80000[267]9000–20000(2022)[278]
Pakistan2000–2500[279]250[267]>900 (2017)[280]
Turkey80000[281]30000[267]12000–16000 (2022)[282]
Non-Arab Muslim Countries Total~150000~100000~24000
 
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southpaw

Well-known member
May 21, 2002
1,426
1,196
113
Maybe it’s because arabs can live in a Jewish state while Jews for some reason cannot live in Arab states.
And? Do you see me arguing to send billions in aid to any of those Arab states? Show me a single post where I've said the West should help the Arabs, including the Palestinians.

I'm advocating to stop supporting one ethnostate. Not to start supporting others.
 

Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
8,568
8,145
113
And? Do you see me arguing to send billions in aid to any of those Arab states? Show me a single post where I've said the West should help the Arabs, including the Palestinians.

I'm advocating to stop supporting one ethnostate. Not to start supporting others.
So you are okay with Jews being ethnically cleansed from israel like they have been from all the other Arab countries?
 

southpaw

Well-known member
May 21, 2002
1,426
1,196
113
So you are okay with Jews being ethnically cleansed from israel like they have been from all the other Arab countries?
No I am not. Just like I'm not okay with the ethnic cleansing in Ethiopia, Sudan, or Myanmar. Or the oppression of the Uighurs and Tibetans by China.

Or whatever other conflict is currently going on. But I also know it's not our place to interfere in foreign conflicts.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
60,354
6,468
113
Yes, when you use partial quotes it is lying.
The UN ceasefire calls for both sides to stop.
...
And hamas rejected it, instead sending a new list of demands.

And Hamas refused to release their hostages as the UN, ICC, and ICJ demanded. It's amazing that you keep pretending to endorse those groups while completely rejecting what they say.
 

Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
8,568
8,145
113
No I am not. ……. But I also know it's not our place to interfere in foreign conflicts.
So you are not okay with it but also you are okay with it. Gotcha.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
48,399
8,634
113
Toronto
Do you really want to compare that to either Orthodox Jews or Evangelical Christians?
Is that a reason to support genocide, in your thinking?
So you have no evidence to invalidate the fact that Israel bestows many rights upon Arab CITIZENS that Arab nations do not bestow upon Jews.

Without directly addressing this example and just answering with a question (which you've said you never do, what a joke AKA lie) you are admitting that Israel is not an apartheid state. That is why the UN has never passed a resolution declaring Israel as such, as they did with S. Africa in 1963. Would an apartheid state allow things like that Arab-Israeli boy did? Allowing a Jewish member of Hamas to swear on a Torah?

All of your BS claims fall like dominoes, one after the other when placed under scrutiny.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
48,399
8,634
113
Toronto
What is there to explain? That Israel has a minority called "Israeli Arabs" who are Israeli citizens?

Why not extend the same courtesy to all the Palestinians? Because then, they'd lose their Jewish majority, and they'd lose their Jewish state.
You answered your own question. All Palestinians are not citizens and every single sovereign state on the face of the earth has the absolute right to bestow or deny citizenship to whomever they want. End of story.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
48,399
8,634
113
Toronto
You know what's even more stupid?
Thinking you can destroy a resistance through genocide.
There are now about 100,000 orphans in Gaza, who do you think they are going to hate as they grow up?
Do you think they will be justified to hate zionists?



Interestingly Geno, despite all your claims of Israeli genocide and intentionally killing/targeting children, you have no images of the soldier killing that boy. The soldier had him dead to rights. According to you, that soldier should be sent to jail for disobeying commands.

That goes 100% contrary to what you say is Israeli policy. More BS and lies from you PROVEN.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
48,399
8,634
113
Toronto
They attack Israel now, don't they? Israel will be attacked regardless of whether the Palestinians have a state, or not.

The difference is, Israel could stop being an apartheid state. I suspect it will always be an ethnostate.
The difference is that Hamas could stop being terrorists and attacking Israeli citizens like they did on Oct.7. Another example of where actions have consequences.

I hope that Pali leadership stop always being terrorists.
 
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