Israel at war

[Frankfooter]

Okay, Frankie. Let's discuss the apartheid argument in a comparison of colonial regimes. Let's set out the various areas.

Canada - native land was stolen by white settlers from a very sparsely populated indigenous group. Non natives are currently well over 95% of the population. (I can go check the stats). Should the non natives leave Canada and give back the land?...... No.
India - Britain was a small (less than 1%) minority who held most of the high administrative and military positions. So Britain left India when it was no longer welcome.
Viet Nam - Substitute France for Britain. Eventually France left VN after attempting (wrongly) to hold the area as a colony.
Zimbabwe - Whites made up about 2% of the population and had seized 70% of the viable land. Whites were forced to concede government to the Black native population and decolonize. Correct outcome, although the Black replacement regime then fucked things up completely.
Algeria - whites made up about 10% of the population in a colonial regime. France eventually conceded independence to Arab nationalists - Correct outcome.
South Africa - white made up about 15% of the population and held all authority positions and lucrative businesses and jobs and enforced apartheid on the indigenous non white population. Whites were eventually forced to integrate and concede power to Blacks. - Correct outcome.

Israel - I attach the demographics.

Demographics of Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, Palestinians living under Israeli rule are currently the demographic majority. Which is whyIs its been idiotic that the Israelis supporters here like basketcase and shack, have continued to support the increase in settlements that have killed the two state possibility.

So yes, now Israel will be stuck fighting to stop the end of apartheid where it will end up with a democracy with Palestinians having as many, or perhaps a few more, votes than the Jewish population. The racists will argue that means genocide while conveniently ignoring the way 'Israeli Arabs' have lived relatively peacefully with mostly equal rights.

Are you trying to argue that apartheid can't end because you hate Palestinians and think they are genocidal?

 

[mandrill]

Your 'precision' bombing kills mostly women and children, 70% of all deaths are women and children.
People who say Palestine supporters are 'Hamas supporters' are the people who support genocide, the people who see 580 children killed sleeping at a school as 'terrorists', not children. The same way in Rwanda people were 'cockroaches', the same way they were dehumanized in Germany in WWII.

This round of violence will end, as I called it, without the elimination of Hamas. Biden has supported Netanyahu way longer than he should have, destroying his own career and standing in the process. Netanyahu has only 4% approval rating, he's done. Zionism has become a dirty word again, associated with apartheid and genocide. He's done after this stops.

The people who are backing Israel will start to claim they never supported this attack in a few weeks. Either that or you are forever tarred as a colonial racist like shack and leimonis. Mandrill, who has mostly abandoned the the Israel threads, will sheepishly come around in about a month.

Once the fighting stops and journalists show pictures of the deaths, destruction, starvation and misery you're going to start understanding what you've been backing. As more details about the bullshit the IDF claimed about hospitals and the music festival come out you're going to claim you were conned.
The bigger question is whether humanity will learn the big lesson. The left wingers here have been railing about trump and how easy it is to get Maga morons to back fascism, but now they're going to have to explain how they backed full on genocide and nazi level evil.

Will this make me happy?

No, it makes me fucking angry that 12-20,000 Palestinians died, that its taken this much death to start to end apartheid in Israel. This is only the beginning of the real change in Israel.

No one is calling the Palestinians "cockroaches", Frankie. People are saying that Israel has a right to defend itself and when HAMAS uses human shields, the IDF has to go in and do the job anyway. It's self protection by Israel.

You and your buds keep trying to cast this as a "racism" issue or a "colonialism" issue. It isn't.

No one is racist here.

 

[Frankfooter]

To continue...


The demographics of Israel, monitored by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, encompass various attributes that define the nation's populace. Since its establishment in 1948, Israel has witnessed significant changes in its demographics. Initially formed as a homeland for the Jewish people following the Holocaust in World War II, Israel has attracted Jewish immigrants from around the globe. Consequently, the Jewish population in Israel is incredibly diverse, with roots spanning Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Americas.

As of March 2023, Israel's population stands at approximately 9.73 million. Jews make up the majority at 73.5% (about 7.145 million individuals).[3] The Arab community, spanning various religions excluding Judaism, accounts for 21% (around 2.048 million). An additional 5.5% (roughly 534,000 individuals) are classified as "others". This diverse group comprises those with Jewish ancestry but not recognized as Jewish by religious law, non-Jewish family members of Jewish immigrants, Christian non-Arabs, Muslim non-Arabs, and residents without a distinct ethnic or religious categorization.[4]

Beyond the predominant Jewish and Arab communities, there are also smaller ethnic groups, such as the Circassians, Armenians, and Druze.

75% of the population of Israel are Jews. That is a vast majority and far different from the white minority rule apartheid regimes that I have listed above. Israel is closer to the Canadian situation than even to South Africa.

There are security reasons why Arabs cannot be given a full share of power in Israel. We have just seen what happens on 7 October. The Arab communities are heavily infiltrated and controlled by extremist Islamic terror elements.

The Arabs should take some kind of 2-state coexistence deal.

Two problems, Mandrill.

1) Before zionism the Jewish population was only about 7% of Israel. Most there are foreign colonizers.
2) Your 75% population is countered by your wiki demographics page, what you are doing with that quote is intentionally not counting Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, who are technically 'stateless refugees' despite being indigenous. Once you give them full citizenship and rights, including the vote, you end up with nearly equal numbers of Jews and Palestinians.

 

[mandrill]

Yes, Palestinians living under Israeli rule are currently the demographic majority. Which is whyIs its been idiotic that the Israelis supporters here like basketcase and shack, have continued to support the increase in settlements that have killed the two state possibility.

So yes, now Israel will be stuck fighting to stop the end of apartheid where it will end up with a democracy with Palestinians having as many, or perhaps a few more, votes than the Jewish population. The racists will argue that means genocide while conveniently ignoring the way 'Israeli Arabs' have lived relatively peacefully with mostly equal rights.

Are you trying to argue that apartheid can't end because you hate Palestinians and think they are genocidal?

Frankie, the Arabs are not going to win. Israel has nukes.

Get past the colonialism issue and then you can argue that Zionist settlers shouldn't seize land on the West Bank and everyone will agree with you.

 

[mandrill]

Two problems, Mandrill.

1) Before zionism the Jewish population was only about 7% of Israel. Most there are foreign colonizers.
2) Your 75% population is countered by your wiki demographics page, what you are doing with that quote is intentionally not counting Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, who are technically 'stateless refugees' despite being indigenous. Once you give them full citizenship and rights, including the vote, you end up with nearly equal numbers of Jews and Palestinians.

But before Jacques Cartier, the white population of Canada was 0%.

It's not an argument that gets you anywhere.

 

[Frankfooter]

No one is calling the Palestinians "cockroaches", Frankie. People are saying that Israel has a right to defend itself and when HAMAS uses human shields, the IDF has to go in and do the job anyway. It's self protection by Israel.

You and your buds keep trying to cast this as a "racism" issue or a "colonialism" issue. It isn't.

No one is racist here.

Yes they are, mandrill. Shack called them 'vermin', the head of the IDF called them 'human animals' and Netanyahu used 'Amalek'.
This is explicitly a colonial and racist issue.

The Likud party charter calls for an Israel 'from river to sea', the whole West Bank is filled with people they call 'settlers'.
How much more blatantly obvious can your colonial settler movement be?

 

[Frankfooter]

But before Jacques Cartier, the white population of Canada was 0%.

It's not an argument that gets you anywhere.

The history isn't that old.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1725961759796928588

 

[squeezer]

Precision bombing doesnt level all of Gaza, refugee camps, schools and hospitals and kill 12000 people and 6000 children.

It possibly can when Hamas uses it's citizens as human shields

 

[Frankfooter]

It possibly can when Hamas uses it's citizens as human shields

No, you misunderstand the law.
Even if Hamas were using the citizens of Gaza as human shields you're still not allowed to target them.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1726187337510797415

 

[mandrill]

Yes they are, mandrill. Shack called them 'vermin', the head of the IDF called them 'human animals' and Netanyahu used 'Amalek'.
This is explicitly a colonial and racist issue.

The Likud party charter calls for an Israel 'from river to sea', the whole West Bank is filled with people they call 'settlers'.
How much more blatantly obvious can your colonial settler movement be?

Shack said that about the HAMAS terrorists. Not the general Palestinian population.

 

[mandrill]

No, you misunderstand the law.
Even if Hamas were using the citizens of Gaza as human shields you're still not allowed to target them.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1726187337510797415

No government or army is going to agree not to target terrorists who deliberately surround themselves with human shields.

It would mean that HAMAS - or AQ or ISIS or any rightie neo nazi group - could do 7 October and then retreat into a human shield. It would make it impossible for legitimate governments to protect their own citizens.

 

[Klatuu]

To continue...


The demographics of Israel, monitored by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, encompass various attributes that define the nation's populace. Since its establishment in 1948, Israel has witnessed significant changes in its demographics. Initially formed as a homeland for the Jewish people following the Holocaust in World War II, Israel has attracted Jewish immigrants from around the globe. Consequently, the Jewish population in Israel is incredibly diverse, with roots spanning Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Americas.

As of March 2023, Israel's population stands at approximately 9.73 million. Jews make up the majority at 73.5% (about 7.145 million individuals).[3] The Arab community, spanning various religions excluding Judaism, accounts for 21% (around 2.048 million). An additional 5.5% (roughly 534,000 individuals) are classified as "others". This diverse group comprises those with Jewish ancestry but not recognized as Jewish by religious law, non-Jewish family members of Jewish immigrants, Christian non-Arabs, Muslim non-Arabs, and residents without a distinct ethnic or religious categorization.[4]

Beyond the predominant Jewish and Arab communities, there are also smaller ethnic groups, such as the Circassians, Armenians, and Druze.

75% of the population of Israel are Jews. That is a vast majority and far different from the white minority rule apartheid regimes that I have listed above. Israel is closer to the Canadian situation than even to South Africa.

There are security reasons why Arabs cannot be given a full share of power in Israel. We have just seen what happens on 7 October. The Arab communities are heavily infiltrated and controlled by extremist Islamic terror elements.

The Arabs should take some kind of 2-state coexistence deal.

Those demographics are meaningless without the story of the forced depopulation of the Palestinian population during the same time period.

 

[mandrill]

The history isn't that old.

75 years is long enough.

You think that old woman gives a shit whether Israel gives Palestinians the vote? At her age?!

 

[Klatuu]

Precision bombing doesnt level all of Gaza, refugee camps, schools and hospitals and kill 12000 people and 6000 children.

Unless your targets were the civIlian population. Then the term precision bombing is completely accurate.

 

[mandrill]

Those demographics are meaningless without the story of the forced depopulation of the Palestinian population during the same time period.

The demographics are what they are.

You think the native American population would be as small without the white man's diseases? At a certain point, you have to go with the current situation.

 

[mandrill]

Unless your targets were the civIlian population. Then the term precision bombing is completely accurate.

But the targets were NOT the civilian population. They were HAMAS. Who used human shields.

 

[Frankfooter]

Shack said that about the HAMAS terrorists. Not the general Palestinian population.

Yes, but shack, like a large number of Israeli supporters, does not differentiate between Hamas and Palestinians, he sees every Palestinian in Gaza as 'Hamas'. Which is why shack refuses to say killing children is wrong, he sees them as Hamas.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1725720072641990675

 

[Klatuu]

The demographics are what they are.

You think the native American population would be as small without the white man's diseases? At a certain point, you have to go with the current situation.

That’s just a nonsensical word salad.

Talk about the depopulation of the indigenous Palestinian population. There is ample scholarship and documentation available.

 

[Frankfooter]

No government or army is going to agree not to target terrorists who deliberately surround themselves with human shields.

It would mean that HAMAS - or AQ or ISIS or any rightie neo nazi group - could do 7 October and then retreat into a human shield. It would make it impossible for legitimate governments to protect their own citizens.

But Israel does not have the legal right to self defence against the people they occupy in the first place.
The occupation is illegal
The blockade is illegal
Every settlement is illegal
Apartheid is illegal

You can't then use the claim that there are human shields to kill civilians.
If shack held you at gunpoint as a human shield the cops in Toronto would not be justified in killing you both to get squeezer.
Same in Gaza, you can't kill 70% women and children and then claim you were only aiming at Hamas.

 

[Frankfooter]

But the targets were NOT the civilian population. They were HAMAS. Who used human shields.

Even if that were the case then its still the war crime of disproportionate response.
If that were the case.

Not to mention the seige that has blocked all food, water and power.
That is clearly targeting all the people in Gaza including civilians.