Israel at war
- Thread starter Butler1000
- Start date
He had nothing to do with the legislation of the 40's that created apartheid. So how would he know? You have no better source than someone who speaks out 60 years after the fact? You are desperate.
Having worked with victims of the Tigers you will find me quite happy with their demise. And I sympathize with those Muslims as they practice a peaceful version, and even get persecuted by other Muslims.
I'm still here posting for a ceasefire, the end of the genocide and the end of apartheid.
You're still afraid to go out in public with your views.
Go out tomorrow and ask everyone to denounce Hamas and Oct 7.
Unless you're a coward.
No. I'm not saying that. Hamas had a card to play as a desperate attempt. They played it as well as they could. But Israel is kicking their ass in a way that Hamas did not anticipate. And now the people of Gaza are paying the price of Hamas' hate and inability to understand how things would play out. Is it Israel's fault that your heroes are so stupid?
Too many innocent people, including 4000 children, have died because of your zionist movement.
You're kicking ass by killing babies.
The world saw this.
Instead of remorse, I'm saying that that pic is a total fraud that you are trying to sell. That is no baby. LOL.
So now I'm a Zionist. That's a new one.
I'm kicking YOUR ass by exposing your lies.
FYI, as Kautilya agreed with, there would be waaay less deaths if not for Hamas and Oct. 7.
I'm curious, how many Gazans were killed in the 4 weeks prior to Oct. 7? You're good with stats. LOL. Mind you, they were probably killed by Hamas, anyways.
Those extra ones are on your head, frank.
Confirmed.
You refuse to say killing babies is wrong and refuse to show any remorse for any Palestinian civilian deaths.
You haven't found a single lie, shack. Not one.
There were about 233 reported settler terrorist attacks and 213 Palestinian deaths before October reported by B'tselem.
Database on fatalities and house demolitions
Database on fatalities and house demolitions in the Occupied Territories and Israel in the context of the conflict
That made it a year with more than the usual number killed by Israel.
Muslims killing other Muslims don't bother the lefties. How many Muslims were killed by the hands of other Muslims in Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria, etc.?
Ok.
Hitler's views on Judaism were well known in the 30s. On March 22nd, 1933, Dachau was opened. That wasn't a secret. He called for the boycott of Jewish businesses and barred them from public service that same year, all public knowledge. In 1935 racial laws stripping Jews of their status as people are passed. It was in the western news. In July of 36 Sachsenhausen was opened, in 37 is was Buchenwald, and in 1938 an international conference on Jewish immigrants was held with Western powers and Germany. Later that year was the Kristallnacht and it wasn't a secret either.
"In the spring of 1933, next to articles on Roosevelt’s first hundred days, the New Deal legislation, and the repeal of prohibition, Americans could read front-page stories about Jews being kicked out of their jobs and beaten on the streets in Germany. Dozens of American newspapers had correspondents based in Germany who sent back vivid descriptions of what they were witnessing under the new Nazi leadership.
"Americans read these articles, and despite all of their own problems, many grew concerned. Thousands of Americans attended anti-Nazi marches and rallies throughout the United States, protesting early persecutions, the boycott of Jewish stores, and Nazi book burnings. An American movement to boycott German-made goods and the stores that sold them began and lasted for nearly a decade, mainly in large cities on the east coast. And between March and May 1933, tens of thousands of people — from 29 states and Washington, DC — signed petitions calling on the new Roosevelt administration to protest Nazi persecution of the Jews.
"Hitler, who paid close attention to American press coverage, might have gone further, faster, had he not read about the American people’s disapproval. Fewer Jews might have gotten out, and America might have been less prepared to respond militarily."
Dr. Rebecca Erbelding, US Holocaust Museum
It's very likely that many people signed up because of Hitler's treatment of the Jews.
The allies new as early as 1942, long before the Germans ran away, less than a year after Hitler's "Final Solution" started. June 1st was when the first stories were published about it.
That's pure speculation. I'm sure for the vast majority it was at least a secondary issue even if it wasn't their primary reason for enlisting. Yes, that's speculation as well, but I'm basing that on the fact that the persecution of the Jewish people in the 30s was in the news and had sparked protest and outrage, on Hitler's "Final Solution" being widely reported in the news mere months after America joined the war and less than a year after it had started, and on the fact that over 1.5 million Jews were in the allied militaries fighting the Nazis. While your speculation is based on incorrectly thinking no one knew the Jews were in concentration camps or knew there was gas chambers.
Let's me be very clear here. I've spoken before about how widespread antisemitism was and how extensive Western eugenics programs were before and during the war. I'm not trying to claim there was no Jewish discrimination outside the axis powers or that antisemitism wasn't a problem everywhere. It was. What I am saying is that many people cared. Millions definitely cared. They may have not been a majority, but many people still cared.
More should have cared. They should have done more. But between the great depression, the droughts, and the fear of ending up in another great war, even the Jews and the progressives who frowned on antisemitism didn't do enough. That won't happen again, which is why you see so many western powers sending aid to both Israel and Palestine. Israel, the Israeli people, and the Jewish people are not alone. They will not be abandoned. But nor will and should people stand by while 9,000+ civilians are getting killed by the Jewish war machine.
Even the chairman of Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust Remembrance Center in Israel criticised them for wearing the yellow stars. "This act disgraces the victims of the Holocaust as well as the state of Israel. The yellow star symbolises the helplessness of the Jewish people and their being at the mercy of others. We now have an independent state and a strong army. We are the masters of our own fate. Today we will fasten to our lapel a blue and white flag, not a yellow star."
And lest you accuse him of not understanding the severity of the Oct 7th attacks or being a Hamas apologist as some have tried, he had this to say about them:
"The slaughter of Jews by Hamas on October 7th was genocidal in its intents and immeasurably brutal in its form."
The scope of the killing and death in Palestine is so disproportionate that there is no way it can be considered a Holocaust. Hamas would love to kill all the Israelis, but Israel is too strong for that. And if Israel could get international support by not being an oppressive state engaged in illegal settlement and occupation, perhaps Hamas would be getting weaker and weaker instead of stronger and stronger.
I did say it would never happen. But it's still Israel's best shot in my opinion even if they'll never do it.
There's zero chance of that happening over time if every few years Israel blows up schools, hospitals, and kill hundreds or thousands of civilians. There's a modicum of a chance of it happening over time if Israel acts with empathy and compassion towards the Palestinians.
But even if it doesn't, if there was an appetite from the international community to support Israel and retaliate against countries and groups that support and supply Hamas, the threat Hamas poses to Israelis would be minimal. Not zero, but as low as possible.
Yes, that's one of my crucial beliefs: it matters not what Israel does, Hamas will always exist.
They have been, and that's why it's no surprise support for Hamas in Gaza is so high. But killing they familiales and destroying their homes and hospitals and schools isn't going to do anything to demonstrate their education describing Israelis as evil, genocidal maniacs is wrong.
The munitions used on October 7th were Iranian-provided and had far more sophistication than what Hamas usually uses. This demonstrates an uptick in the support they are receiving.
Historically Hamas has been limited to Hamas-produced Qassam rockets. Small, weak, relatively easily intercepted by Iron Dome, and in relatively small numbers. October 7th involved Iranian Fajr3 and Fajr5 rockets or copies of them, Iranian mortar and artillery fuses, and glider attacks that would've required specialised training away from Israeli intelligence that mimic Iranian tactics.
Which is why I think the key is getting support from the international community to sanction and possibly embargo Iran and starve Hamas of the training and resources it needs to carry out these attacks.
Every country does. Every country could have a terrorist attack any day. 9/11 proved that. The solution can't be turning a city of over 2 million people into an open air prison and bombing mostly civilians every couple of years when it happens.
I believe that if Hamas' international support was ended their ability to carry our attacks will be diminished. Not only will the Israeli death tolls go back to their old numbers of a dozen or so every few years, but possibly even less.
So your solution is the forced deportation. That's a war crime. And how do you force Arab nations to accept immigrants? At a time when most western nations are dealing with immigration problems of their own and attempting to halt it drastically reduce their own immigration, they're going to force other nations to accept immigrants whether they want them or not?
Those are all borders settled by treaty or long ago internationally recognized. Only 2 nations recognize most of the Israeli conquest. Israel themselves considers much of the land "occupied territory". It has recognised in the past that it's settlements are illegal. It knows it only has a peace treaty with Egypt and none of the other nations from the 3rd and 4th Arab Israeli wars and despite agreeing to a UNTSO MAC with Syria just never showed up to any meetings.
Israel can kick all the Gazans out, it could even kick all the Palestinians out of all its territory, occupied or otherwise. That isn't going to stop Hamas terrorist attacks. I would hope a nation, and certainly bystanders like us, would be horrified at the idea of thousands of dead civilians that accomplishes nothing.
I'm not sure what your point is. Hamas isn't the only terrorist group in the world and most terrorists believe ridiculous things. I don't see that as a reason to either keep engaging in retaliatory strikes that kill thousands and change nothing or engage in genocide and hope that works.
I don't care what narrative they push. All the experts say this is about nationalism and not religion and I've yet to see Hamas say they'll leave Israel alone if they convert or Israel say they'll welcome Palestinians if they convert.
I suspect so too. I can't name a single time in history when killing someone's family and destroying their community and infrastructure made them love you and hate your enemy.
