22 killed, dozens wounded across several locations in Lewiston, Maine: Live updates

[poorboy]

Somehow I doubt poor boy has ever actually been in a situation where adrenaline and cortisol hits like a freight train.

maybe he should Google this one. Oh an poor boy. OPP officer Del Mercy? An avid hunter.

SIU report reveals new shootout details

ALMAGUIN – One investigation has ended and another isbeginning into the deadly meeting between Fred Preston and Constable Vu Pham onMarch 8.

www.muskokaregion.com

Fred Preston also a hunter and crack shot. Never hit officer Mercy. Want to guess how many shots they traded?

Your super human though poor boy..paper shoots back at you. Thankfully you will never be allowed to carry in public.

Suspect in police killing a crack shot

The town of Sundridge is stunned that an easygoing former politician is the prime suspect in the shooting death of an OPP officer.

www.thestar.com

And lastly, I wondered if it’s crossed your mind how many round this army trainer has blown through…you think 1 shot, 1 kill? I’ll bet money you’re wrong. How much you down for?

No I know exactly what it’s like and I know that even if you are well trained, there is no guarantee you will perform. You do the best you can and hope you make less mistakes than the next guy. You hope that timing and luck are also in your side. You hope your skill level is high enough to overcome a 20lb weight advantage.

As far as how many rounds this army trainer has gone through, no one knows because there is no indication how long he has been an instructor, how many courses he’s run per year and if he shoots competitively. What kind of firearms instructor is not even stated.

 

[poorboy]

let me know when paper fires back.

And do you not know how many US cops are ex military? But are still human, and still miss. But you think you’re special and super human no doubt.

You don’t seem to realize that being ex military doesn’t mean you are an excellent shot. Most soldiers do not shoot that many rounds per year. Shooting is only a small component of soldiering.

I’ll tell you what I am though. I’m an ordinary guy and a well placed bullet can kill me just like anyone else.

What I also am is someone who has practical experience and knowledge of firearms as well as the theoretical knowledge and am not just a keyboard warrior.

 

[Not getting younger]

No I know exactly what it’s like and I know that even if you are well trained, there is no guarantee you will perform. You do the best you can and hope you make less mistakes than the next guy. You hope that timing and luck are also in your side. You hope your skill level is high enough to overcome a 20lb weight advantage.

As far as how many rounds this army trainer has gone through, no one knows because there is no indication how long he has been an instructor, how many courses he’s run per year and if he shoots competitively. What kind of firearms instructor is not even stated.

So just a couple things on that. I have zero interest in wasting time finding numbers about US law enforcement that are ex military. It’s a lot…. Many have probably been in conflict zones/combat. Trained to not only hit targets at a range, but also be on high alert constantly. Yet, without spending two minutes I could easily find all kind of stats and incidents of them shooting un armed people, or people that aren’t threats….or unloading but just hitting a few times...you think the average gun owner that only ever shoots at paper will……….

Maine, where this mass shooting occured. Has CCW. Why didn’t one of your would be heroes stop him? Or do you not know Maine has ccw.

We have the right to defend ourselves, even here in Canada. You don’t seem to know that. How long it might take police to respond to your house is utterly immaterial. Do you not know our laws here?

Why do you feel the need you need to carry in public. Or that you are super human.

 

[poorboy]

So just a couple things on that. I have zero interest in wasting time finding numbers about US law enforcement that are ex military. It’s a lot…. Many have probably been in conflict zones/combat. Trained to not only hit targets at a range, but also be on high alert constantly. Yet, without spending two minutes I could easily find all kind of stats and incidents of them shooting un armed people, or people that aren’t threats…..you think the average gun owner that only ever shoots at paper will……….

Maine, where this mass shooting occured. Has CCW. Why didn’t one of your would be heroes stop him? Or do you not know Maine has ccw.

We have the right to defend ourselves, even here in Canada. You don’t seem to know that. How long it might take police to respond to your house is utterly immaterial. Do you not know our laws here?

Why do you feel the need you need to carry in public. Or that you are super human.

I know you have the right to defend yourself. How long it takes the police to reach your house is very material. You realize it can take an hour for the police to reach you in rural Canada. A lot can happen to you in the meantime

At no time did I ever say I felt the need to carry in public. Not once. Never. Do a search. And the only person who thinks I’m super human is you. Got news for you buddy. I’m going to die one day just like everyone else.

You realize a CCW holder has to be around to actually do something? You seem to think there’s one on every corner in Maine, which is ridiculous.

You also haven’t been reading what I’ve previously written. I stated most Americans should not be carrying as they only know just enough to be dangerous.

Go back and read.

 

[Not getting younger]

I know you have the right to defend yourself. How long it takes the police to reach your house is very material. You realize it can take an hour for the police to reach you in rural Canada. A lot can happen to you in the meantime

At no time did I ever say I felt the need to carry in public. Not once. Never. Do a search. And the only person who thinks I’m super human is you. Got news for you buddy. I’m going to die one day just like everyone else.

You realize a CCW holder has to be around to actually do something? You seem to think there’s one on every corner in Maine, which is ridiculous.

You have the right to defend yourself. So what difference would it make if it take police 30 minutes to get to your house….

You're a fool if you're staking your life being saved by the police. When is the last time you've actually seen the police in your neighbourhood? Ever called 911, even for an ambulance? You realize you are placed in a hold que until your call is answered, and then forwarded by 911 to either ambulance, fire or police?

You don't know what life is like outside of Toronto. Police fire, and ambulance are not 24/7 service outside of the big cities. They are on callout.

So again, if you can shoot someone in your house. What difference would an hour make…

You have also argued that people who only ever shoot at paper, are more than up to the task. Would take me two minutes to find all kinds of ex military and cops in the US……

With that line of thinking, the police and military shouldn't be carrying guns either. You severely underestimate the number of times the average police officer or soldier shoots his firearms. Go find a random police officer in Toronto and ask him how many times a year he shoots. 9 out of 10 only shoot once a year when attending their "rigorous" 3 days of training a year.

You want to know why Toronto Police Officer Ken Lam who confronted Minassian never shot him despite Minassian making gestures that he was pointing a pistol to shoot the officer and had just mowed down 26 people, killing 11 and injuring 16? He didn't have a round in the chamber and wasn't where he was supposed to be. That's why he never received any commendation from Toronto Police or awards from any level of government. He failed at his job and would have been a dead man if Minassian actually had a firearm.

Concealed carry gun owners in the U.S. are less likely to commit a crime than their law enforcement.

The average civilian IPSC shooter puts thousands of rounds downrange a year. An IPSC shooter is more likely to neutralize a target than a police officer because of the minimum number of competitions they need to attend to keep their black badge status to allow them to compete. Same goes for IDPA and USPSA shooters.

But you think, they are better qualified than people who are ex military, and now cops in the US or Del Marcy/Fred Preston, unloading at each other from across a road…etc and so on.

If you’re not trying to make the case for CCW….how do you explain those post?

 

[K Douglas]

When did they start to have mass shootings and what is the source of the problem?

US mass shootings, 1982–2024: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

The full data set from our in-depth investigation into mass shootings.

www.motherjones.com

1980's - 8 mass shootings resulting in 79 deaths
1990's - 23 mass shootings 161 deaths
2000's - 20 mass shootings 167 deaths
2010's - 66 mass shootings 540 deaths
2020's - 31 mass shootings 198 deaths

Something happened in the 2010's to trigger more mass shootings. Here you go

The rise of social media

Social media sites are used by more than two-thirds of Internet users. How has social media grown over time?

ourworldindata.org

 

[Robert Mugabe]

Well. Seems to be the case. Most of them completely forgotten. Including this one.

List of mass shootings in the United States - Wikipedia

December 7, 1987

Cayucos, California

43[n 1]

0

43

Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 (1987): The perpetrator David Burke entered the cockpit of Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 and killed the pilot and co-pilot as well as shooting three other people before crashing the plane and killing all forty-three passengers and crew on board.

 

[Not getting younger]

US mass shootings, 1982–2024: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

The full data set from our in-depth investigation into mass shootings.

www.motherjones.com

1980's - 8 mass shootings resulting in 79 deaths
1990's - 23 mass shootings 161 deaths
2000's - 20 mass shootings 167 deaths
2010's - 66 mass shootings 540 deaths
2020's - 31 mass shootings 198 deaths

Something happened in the 2010's to trigger more mass shootings. Here you go

The rise of social media

Social media sites are used by more than two-thirds of Internet users. How has social media grown over time?

ourworldindata.org

The US statute for a mass shooting is 3 or more killed. There’s been over 500 this year.

 

[shack]

The US statute for a mass shooting is 3 or more killed. There’s been over 500 this year.

I didn't look it up but I suspect that it's 3 or more shot but not necessarily killed.

 

[RZG]

Again, do you think a hunter or target shooter would do well against a current arms trainer and active military member. Sorry but there's a reason why SWAT types are currently training for these situations. Being good on fortnite doesn't mean shit in a gun fight.

I`d take even a marginal chance over zero chance any day. Fifty to one odds beat zero.

 

[dirtyharry555]

When did they start to have mass shootings and what is the source of the problem?

They've always existed and though they've increased in prevalence, they still account for a small percentage of gun violence in the US.



The source of the problem? Nobody knows for certain, but what are some of the things that have changed in culture over this time period?

-rise of social media
-increased fatherlessness
-educational focus on feelings over facts
-morphing of traditional gender roles
-greater multiculturalism
-stagnant or declining quality of life (cost of living)
-loss of faith in institutions & authority (exposure of fake media, censored/compromised science and academia, police brutality)
-more overcrowding/density in urban areas
-increased drug use?
-increase in mental disorders such as autism? Depression/isolation?
-less reverence for and training of firearms

 

[Valcazar]

I didn't look it up but I suspect that it's 3 or more shot but not necessarily killed.

There is no "US statute" about mass shootings.
There isn't even an agreed upon definition by different groups.

Mother Jones discusses this here: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/no-there-were-not-355-mass-shootings-this-year/

There is a statute about asking for federal aid for "mass killings" that uses "3 or more killed" as the definition for mass killing.

 

[mandrill]

US mass shootings, 1982–2024: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

The full data set from our in-depth investigation into mass shootings.

www.motherjones.com

1980's - 8 mass shootings resulting in 79 deaths
1990's - 23 mass shootings 161 deaths
2000's - 20 mass shootings 167 deaths
2010's - 66 mass shootings 540 deaths
2020's - 31 mass shootings 198 deaths

Something happened in the 2010's to trigger more mass shootings. Here you go

The rise of social media

Social media sites are used by more than two-thirds of Internet users. How has social media grown over time?

ourworldindata.org

Interesting argument.

I'll toss in some others. Collapse of the unionized blue collar economy and the idea that the working class guy can work hard and live the "American Dream".

Play on that theme and you might get the "great betrayal" theory. That the rich and powerful have betrayed the rest of America and the ordinary joe is fucked over.

Anger and alienation. Greater multi culturalism. Feelings that societal order is in flux - women are no longer submissive, immigrants are earning more than traditionally settle Americans.

Once you have Big Anger, it isn't hard to find people you want to kill.

Social media stokes the anger and validates it with like minded angry people and directs that anger towards targets.

 

[dirtyharry555]

 

[Not getting younger]

Interesting argument.

I'll toss in some others. Collapse of the unionized blue collar economy and the idea that the working class guy can work hard and live the "American Dream".

Play on that theme and you might get the "great betrayal" theory. That the rich and powerful have betrayed the rest of America and the ordinary joe is fucked over.

Anger and alienation. Greater multi culturalism. Feelings that societal order is in flux - women are no longer submissive, immigrants are earning more than traditionally settle Americans.

Once you have Big Anger, it isn't hard to find people you want to kill.

Social media stokes the anger and validates it with like minded angry people and directs that anger towards targets.

So what have the rich the well off and powerful done for the blue collar workers that built America? Answer. Not much but lip service look no further than the rust belt. . Many in the military have similar sentiments especially Vietnam vets. Where’s there’s smoke, there’s often fire.

regarding “mass murders”. If someone is inclined to verify rhis, knock yourself out. I’ve always just looked at per capita numbers.

but U.S. statute (the Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012) defines a “mass killing” as “3 or more killings in a single incident.”

Mass shooting | Definition, Statistics, Weapons, & Locations | Britannica

Mass shooting, as defined by the U.S. FBI, an event in which one or more individuals are ‘actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area. Implicit in this definition is the shooter’s use of a firearm.’

www.britannica.com

 

[poorboy]

You have the right to defend yourself. So what difference would it make if it take police 30 minutes to get to your house….



So again, if you can shoot someone in your house. What difference would an hour make…

You have also argued that people who only ever shoot at paper, are more than up to the task. Would take me two minutes to find all kinds of ex military and cops in the US……



But you think, they are better qualified than people who are ex military, and now cops in the US or Del Marcy/Fred Preston, unloading at each other from across a road…etc and so on.

If you’re not trying to make the case for CCW….how do you explain those post?

You are mixing up posts. My initial response regarding police response times was to address "Mandrill's" belief that it's the police's job to take care of a threat attempting to break into his house. I responded to him that he shouldn't depend on the police as in most cases, they cannot respond in time. Somehow, you interpret that into me not knowing I have the right to defend myself.

You also don't have any idea how the military trains. Do you think they line up ex convicts for them to kill to get experience? They shoot at paper more than anything else. Paper is cheap. They need to put a large quantity of men through in a fixed period of time when training. The easiest way to do that on a range is to have a long line of shooters facing another long line of paper targets. They rarely use simulators, because it is set up for individual use. Simunition is occasionally used, which is basically paintball, but that is used more by special teams and occasionally by police. On large practice exercises, they don't even use real ammunition. They use laser engagement systems and blanks. If you're in the Canadian Army, you use blanks and your imagination. Once and a while, they have live fire exercises, but at no time are they directly firing at anyone because the purpose of live fire exercises is to coordinate maneuver and test attack plans. You know what else they shoot at most of the time? Stationary targets, not moving ones like in real life.

You also seem to think that all ex military that join the police are all former combat tested riflemen or special forces doorkickers who have killed someone, which is not the case. Seems to me the reason you can't be bothered to look up the stats on ex military is because it doesn't suit your narrative. 40% of US armed forces never leave the US. For the 60% that does, only 10% to 20% are in combat roles. A combat role can include being a mortarman, artilleryman, armoured crewman, engineer, etc. for the army. Combat role can also mean a pilot who drops bombs from 20,000 feet or a weapons officer on a ship. All these combat roles have probably never engaged the enemy up close with a rifle.

So can a civilian shooter who practices regularly who only shoots at paper be up to the task? He or she is not at as much of a disadvantage as you seem to think.

What Percentage of the Military Sees Combat? (2023 Guide) | TheGunZone

Finally, I am neither for nor against CCW and at no time have ever pushed that narrative. Being we are in Canada, it's not even relevant.

 

[Not getting younger]

You are mixing up posts. My initial response regarding police response times was to address "Mandrill's" belief that it's the police's job to take care of a threat attempting to break into his house. I responded to him that he shouldn't depend on the police as in most cases, they cannot respond in time. Somehow, you interpret that into me somehow not knowing I have the right to defend myself.

You also don't have any idea how the military trains. Do you think they line up ex convicts for them to kill to get experience? They shoot at paper more than anything else. Paper is cheap. They need to put a large quantity of men through in a fixed period of time when training. The easiest way to do that on a range is to have a long line of shooters facing another long line of paper targets. They rarely use simulators, because it is set up for individual use. Simunition is occasionally used, which is basically paintball, but that is used more by special teams and occasionally by police. On large practice exercises, they don't even use real ammunition. They use laser engagement systems and blanks. If you're in the Canadian Army, you use blanks and your imagination. Once and a while, they have live fire exercises, but at no time are they directly firing at anyone because the purpose of live fire exercises is to coordinate maneuver and test attack plans. You know what else they shoot at most of the time? Stationary targets, not moving ones like in real life.

You also seem to think that all ex military that join the police are all former combat tested riflemen or special forces doorkickers who have killed someone, which is not the case. Seems to me the reason you can't be bothered to look up the stats on ex military is because it doesn't suit your narrative. 40% of US armed forces never leave the US. For the 60% that does, only 10% to 20% are in combat roles. A combat role can include being a mortarman, artilleryman, armoured crewman, engineer, etc. for the army. Combat role can also mean a pilot who drops bombs from 20,000 feet or a weapons officer on a ship. All these combat roles have probably never engaged the enemy up close with a rifle.

So can a civilian shooter who practices regularly who only shoots at paper be up to the task? He or she is not at as much of a disadvantage as you seem to think.

What Percentage of the Military Sees Combat? (2023 Guide) | TheGunZone

Finally, I am neither for nor against CCW and at no time have ever pushed that narrative. Being we are in Canada, it's not even relevant.

Explain your post then.
There’s virtually no other reason for it. And as far as ex military goes. So now your claiming range warriors have better training than them.? combat or no? In particular how to handle stress or even up to and including knowing Mannassaim wasn’t armed and lethal force wasn’t justified?

 

[poorboy]

Explain your post then.
There’s virtually no other reason for it. And as far as ex military goes. So now your claiming range warriors have better training than them.? combat or no? In particular how to handle stress or even up to and including knowing Mannassaim wasn’t armed and lethal force wasn’t justified?

You have this unrealistic illusion of military training.

The military has a budget just like businesses do. They have to train a large number of people, which costs money. Military personnel are trained to properly use their equipment to complete their mission. People in the military are doing a job, can't use military equipment on their own time, and aren't paid overtime for training on their own. Only a small percentage of the military are trained to an extremely high level and they are in special teams or regiments. The average soldier does not shoot that much. Can't you get that through your head?

Some of these people who practice regularly who go to the range do so because they want to. Not because they have to. Also in case you didn't know, special teams get training from competitive shooters to see what kind of equipment they use to shoot faster and more accurately and how to improve their own techniques. The military also looks at civilian offroad racers and their equipment to get equipment ideas and driving techniques.

GET TO KNOW JERRY MICULEK | Smith & Wesson (smith-wesson.com)

"Well, for about the last 20 years, I've been fortunate enough to do military training. Working with these guys, I can kind of get a concept of what they want to do. And it's exciting for me to train and to pass it on to these guys and just have fun with it."


As stated before, Constable Lam FAILED to do his job. He never received any commendations from Toronto Police or any awards from any level of government for his actions. Lam was not prepared. He was more than justified to shoot and kill a person who just committed mass murder and was posturing to shoot him and was lucky Minassian didn't have a firearm or he would be a dead man. Lam did not shoot because he was incompetent and did not have a round in the chamber like he was supposed to. You talk about a person not being able to handle stress, and the associated adrenaline and cortisol effects? That was Constable Lam that day. It's clearly captured on video. Go find a Toronto Police officer, any Toronto Police officer and ask about Lam. Not a single one will say he performed properly.

You're warping the narrative.

 

[basketcase]

No we don't agree. Stop commenting on topics you know nothing about.

Thanks for proving you can't understand sarcasm.

And I noticed you still haven't answered who you think would win a shootout between a trained military weapons instructor and a random civilian.

 

[basketcase]

What kind of question is that? No one has invaded the country.

Stop commenting on this topic. You've made many posts that shown you don't know anything about firearms, the industry, and haven't even been in a fight.

You've made no effort to obtain your PAL or learn about firearms safety, hunting or sport shooting beyond typing on a keyboard.

Get outside, exercise and learn something.

Exactly why we don't need more guns. No one is invading us.

But sure poorbaby, keep complaining that other people have an opinion you don't like and can't argue against.



p.s. I've also never murdered anyone. Do you think that prevents me from having an opinion on it?