Israel at war

[Insidious Von]

The situation is not going to get any better.

Anyone who thinks that Netanyahu will be replaced with someone more moderate should quit the verdura. His position is solid with hardcore Orthodox/Zionists supporting him. They want the restoration of King Solomon's Judeah, the West Bank has to be ethnic cleansed to achieve this. This could trigger WW III.

This doesn't justify the attacks on civilians by Hamas, they been planning this since Netanyahu went hard right. The hostages will not survive and the IDF will turn Gaza City into dust. The kill ratio of the IDF raids into West Bank towns was 15 Palestinians to one Israeli killed. Neither side values human life.

 

[Not getting younger]

The situation is not going to get any better.

Anyone who thinks that Netanyahu will be replaced with someone more moderate should quit the verdura. His position is solid with hardcore Orthodox/Zionists supporting him. They want the restoration of King Solomon's Judeah, the West Bank has to be ethnic cleansed to achieve this. This could trigger WW III.

This doesn't justify the attacks on civilians by Hamas, they been planning this since Netanyahu went hard right. The hostages will not survive and the IDF will turn Gaza City into dust. The kill ratio of the IDF raids into West Bank towns was 15 Palestinians to one Israeli.

Im hopeful, it doesn’t spread. Either drag others into it, or others seeing opportunity for more chaos.

Time will tell.

 

[Insidious Von]

This war is depressing me to no end, it could have been avoided....I need a moment of levity.

Part II.

 

[Frankfooter]

Hamas extremist, militants, freedom fighters. Terrorist. Choose a label they all fit. Admit and Claim that the weekends atrocities are because of this.

- you support this
- you accuse Israel of disproportionate response
-You say Israel should end apartheid and give extremist ( choose a label) what they want.
-You say Israel should end sanctions.

Israeli nationals, racist, terrorist, freedom fighter ( choose a label) respond
-you say they respond disproportionately
- you certainly don’t support them ( perfectly ok)
- you say Isreal should stop and seek peace
- you say the world should sanction Isreal

Maybe just me, but while I can see problems, and inequities etc. What I don’t see is our indigenous peoples firing rockets into crowded areas of Toronto, I don’t see our indigenous peoples brutally murdering children, and civilians. I don’t see our indigenous peoples raping and murdering foreign nationals, I don’t see our indigenous peoples taking you hostage
Etc

And as far as the shit show goes in the Mid East. What’s your solution for the Arab nation , can’t call them freedom fighters, so…The Terrorist, extremist, racist, that want, have and tries to commit genocide against Jews.

I don't support violence by either side.
We need to force both sides to abide by international law but to do so also requires dealing with Israel's illegal occupation and use of apartheid rule.

Take Hamas leaders and Israeli leaders to the Hague and charge them for everything. All the attacks on civilians, all the war crimes, everything.
Then use BDS to end apartheid.

That is the only non violent path forward left.

“I grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day,” Tlaib said. “I am determined as ever to fight for a just future where everyone can live in peace, without fear and with true freedom, equal rights, and human dignity. The path to that future must include lifting the blockade, ending the occupation and dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance.

“The failure to recognize the violent reality of living under siege, occupation, and apartheid makes no one safer,” she said. “No person, no child anywhere should have to suffer or live in fear of violence. We cannot ignore the humanity in each other. As long as our country provides billions in unconditional funding to support the apartheid government, this heartbreaking cycle of violence will continue.”

 

[toguy5252]

When the IDF starts winning, Hamas will undoubtedly hide out in civilian areas and try to blend in. Sounds like the Israelis are in no mood to be careful.

That is already happening. Rocket launchers are placed in apartment buildings. Death is the currency of Hamas. When Israelis are killed people like frankie and his friends will celebrate as a step towards victory. When a Palestinian is killed it will be a war crime. There is no symmetry. The ultimate losers here after all the death and destruction will be the Palestinian people and the Palestinian cause. If the 2 state solution was not already dead it is at lease deferred for many years. frankie and his friends should be very proud. By the way I have had him on ignore for a long time so i will not hear nor do i care about his attempts to justify or rationalize the barabarism of Hamas.

 

[Frankfooter]

That is already happening. Rocket launchers are placed in apartment buildings. Death is the currency of Hamas. When Israelis are killed people like frankie and his friends will celebrate as a step towards victory. When a Palestinian is killed it will be a war crime. There is no symmetry. The ultimate losers here after all the death and destruction will be the Palestinian people and the Palestinian cause. If the 2 state solution was not already dead it is at lease deferred for many years. frankie and his friends should be very proud. By the way I have had him on ignore for a long time so i will not hear nor do i care about his attempts to justify or rationalize the barabarism of Hamas.

Israeli supporters are just like Hamas.
For someone like toguy, death is also his currency.

The only thing I agree with in this post is that the two state solution is dead.
Which leaves only a campaign to deescalate both sides and end apartheid through international sanctions.

Hamas targeted civilians at rave, Israel is targeting civilians in apartment buildings, schools and hospitals using much more lethal weapons.

Israeli air raids hit residences, schools across Gaza: UN rights chief
Israeli air attacks on Gaza have struck residential buildings, including large tower blocks, as well as schools and UN buildings resulting in civilian casualties, the UN’s human rights chief has said, citing information gathered by his office.
“International humanitarian law is clear: the obligation to take constant care to spare the civilian population and civilian objects remains applicable throughout the attacks,” Volker Turk said in a statement.

How can anyone support this?
End the violence and then end apartheid.

 

[shack]

That is Frank's tactic. He will just conclude that you said something which you did not, and then proceed to quote you, which will show you that you actually did not say what Frank alleges you are saying and then he will conclude that his original conclusion about what you said was still right. He did that to me in another thread.

You got it. Amongst many other things, he is not an honourable debater.

 

[shack]

Yes, you did claim that using nukes can lead to peace.

I said no such thing. I said that killing can lead to peace refuting your statement that killing never leads to peace. I just happened to cite an example where a nuke was used. As always you project your own thoughts onto other people.

Did Japan surrender after the U.S. dropped those 2 bombs? Yes or no?

Nor am I calling for the destruction of either Palestine or Israel.

Clearly you are. You've already said you support the killing of refugees and children in Gaza as long as Hamas gets to kill some Jews.

Still waiting for you, the peace lover who wants the Mideast situation resolved peacefully, to produce your quote where you condemned this attack on Israel.

All you've done is justify it by saying it happened because of 75 years of occupation. You approve the violence.

 

[Frankfooter]

You got it. Amongst many other things, he is not an honourable debater.

Backhanded, unsupported claims about lying are hardly honourable themselves, shack.

I said no such thing. I said that killing can lead to peace refuting your statement that killing never leads to peace. I just happened to cite an example where a nuke was used. As always you project your own thoughts onto other people.

Did Japan surrender after the U.S. dropped those 2 bombs? Yes or no?

I said killing never leads to peace. You said Japan dropping nukes lead to peace. Now you're trying to backtrack.
Should I be more specific for you? How about saying that violence has never ended an occupation or lead to a peaceful occupation.
Is that a more reasonable question for you?

You've already said you support the killing of refugees and children in Gaza as long as Hamas gets to kill some Jews.

That is a disgustingly dishonourable lie.
I have never said any such thing.
That is one of the most disgusting lies I've read on this board. Ever.

Still waiting for you, the peace lover who wants the Mideast situation resolved peacefully, to produce your quote where you condemned this attack on Israel.

All you've done is justify it by saying it happened because of 75 years of occupation. You approve the violence.

Hamas and zionists are both the same and leaders from both should be taken to the Hague, tried and locked away for a long time.
I condemn violence towards civilians by both sides.

Hamas has a right to self defence from an illegal blockade, illegal occupation and apartheid rule but they have no right to target civilians.
Israel has no right to an illegal occupation and apartheid rule and no right to target civilians to defend crimes against humanity.

Both sides should cease all violence immediately and the world should start a campaign to end apartheid through sanctions.

Israelis are blaming this attack on Netanyahu. He is responsible for running the apartheid occupation and 10 years of no peace talks.
From Haaretz
Editorial | Netanyahu Bears Responsibility for This Israel-Gaza War

 

[shack]

Backhanded, unsupported claims about lying are hardly honourable themselves, shack.

That's why I don't lie. Unlike you.

I said killing never leads to peace. You said Japan dropping nukes lead to peace. Now you're trying to backtrack.

Not in the slightest. I explained/defended my comment. Just because you couldn't twist it around to your hateful narrative is not my fault.

Once again, did the war with Japan end after the bombs and has there been peace with Japan since? Of course it did. That, in and of itself, was my point.

That is a disgustingly dishonourable lie.
I have never said any such thing.
That is one of the most disgusting lies I've read on this board. Ever.

I'm glad that I upset you by telling the truth.

Hamas has a right to self defence from an illegal blockade, illegal occupation and apartheid rule but they have no right to target civilians.
Israel has no right to an illegal occupation and apartheid rule and no right to target civilians to defend crimes against humanity.

And there you go, once again, trying to justify the Hamas attack instead of condemning it. You are so transparently hateful of Jews.

You have yet to produce your post where you condemned this attack, even though you are against violence from either side. Somewhere on the first page or two. Surely it must have been part of your first post on this topic because you feel so strongly on this topic. Show us frank.

Where in this thread did you make that post?

 

[shack]

It is a great tragedy, war is stupid.
So is an illegal occupation and so is apartheid rule.

This is exactly the same thing that happened in 2021. Hundreds of settlers backed by the army marched on Al Aqsa mosque and Hamas responded by firing rockets. A few days ago 800 settlers backed by the army stormed the Al Aqsa. That's stupid.

You really want peace with MBS and Saudi Arabia, toguy? The last reports I heard was that Saudi had broken over talks because of the Palestinian 'problem', which includes a massive uptick in armed settler terrorist attacks throughout this year.

As basketcase just said:


This is why there will be more violence until international sanctions end Israeli apartheid.
That is the only solution to this violence left.

Protests and sanctions for equal rights.

This violence has been going on for a long time and its mostly committed by the occupying, colonial settlers.

The Abraham Accords were only accelerated colonialism.
All they did was try to award Israel more of Palestine and more rights over Palestine.

But this has been going on for 75 years, during which Israel has continually taken more of Palestine while still claiming to be the victim.
If you want peace either end the occupation or end apartheid.

Here's a couple of your 1st posts in this thread. Where is the condemnation of Hamas attacking civilians, that you say you are against? All you do is attempt to justify it. Never a condemnation.

And this is why everyone knows that you are a liar.

 

[Frankfooter]

That's why I don't lie. Unlike you.

Yes, you called me a liar. That is a lie and I challenge you to prove it.

Once again, did the war with Japan end after the bombs and has there been peace with Japan since? Of course it did. That, in and of itself, was my point.

Yes, I know what your point was in saying that using nukes lead to peace.

I'm glad that I upset you by telling the truth.

No, you lied.
I challenge you to defend your lie or retract it.
Do the honourable thing for once.

And there you go, once again, trying to justify the Hamas attack instead of condemning it. You are so transparently hateful of Jews.

No, I hate racial supremacists like the zionists on this board. There are so many good Jews, like the good people of IJVCanada, IfNotNow, B'tselem, Breaking the Silence and others. Its an antisemitic trope to claim being critical of a settler colonial, racist movement is antisemitic.

You have yet to produce your post where you condemned this attack, even though you are against violence from either side. Somewhere on the first page or two. Surely it must have been part of your first post on this topic because you feel so strongly on this topic. Show us frank.

Where in this thread did you make that post?

You do this regularly. And when I show you that post you ignore it and make the same claim over and over again.
Its another dishonourable lie to defend your racial supremacy.

I back Canadian values of racial equality, not racist settler colonialism.
You can't defend apartheid and accuse others of racism.

 

[Frankfooter]

Here's a couple of your 1st posts in this thread. Where is the condemnation of Hamas attacking civilians, that you say you are against? All you do is attempt to justify it. Never a condemnation.

And this is why everyone knows that you are a liar.

This was the first line of the post which you deliberately ignored.

It is a great tragedy, war is stupid.

You are lying about my posts again.
Stop it, its dishonourable.

 

[toguy5252]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710624039155167450

Joe Biden just handed Iran $6 BILLION for no reason. He called it a prisoner swap, but that doesn’t require a payoff - just ask Trump, he got them free. So, about two weeks later, Israel is being completely attacked by Hamas. Coincidence? Not even a little bit. This is the Biden-Blinken-Nuland playbook: fund global conflict, skim off a percent of the foreign aid we send them.

The Iranians have not received 5 cents so far. The funds have been sitting in a Korean bank and each administration has agreed to release funds for medical supplies etc.

on the other hand the stable genius agreed to release 5,000 Taliban fighters.

 

[squeezer]

Ari breaks it down nicely

 

[shack]

Yes, you called me a liar. That is a lie and I challenge you to prove it.

I just did. You said that you condemn violence against civilians, yet there is no post in this thread (that I could see) where you explicitly condemn Hamas for this latest attack on civilians, grandmothers, festival goers.

So clearly you lied. You are against violence against civilians, unless those civilians are Jews.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I know what your point was in saying that using nukes lead to peace.

No you don't. You're trying to say that I'm recommending using nukes on Gaza. I never said that. You claimed I did, so there's another lie.

Do the honourable thing for once.

Honourable is a very strange word to hear coming out of your mouth. I have nothing to apologize for, the least of which is calling you out on your hollow words.

No, I hate racial supremacists like the zionists on this board. There are so many good Jews, like the good people of IJVCanada, IfNotNow, B'tselem, Breaking the Silence and others.

Ahh, the old "I have friends that are black" defense. You're getting desperate.

You do this regularly. And when I show you that post you ignore it and make the same claim over and over again.

Because you lie over and over and over again. I regularly ask for posts of yours to back up your claims and you regularly are unable to do so. You posted something lame only after I said that you had never condemned Palestinian violence. The fact you waited to post something slightly to that effect until after I challenged you proves that I was correct.

As in this thread, why can you not produce a post of yours immediately condemning the violence used by Hamas on Israeli citizens.

BTW, have you had a chance to call basketcase a liar yet today?

 

[richaceg]

My first post in th is thread....just want to ask @Frankfooter ... did Hamas fought for freedom here?

 

[Frankfooter]

Ari breaks it down nicely

Yet that video doesn't mention that Palestine has been illegally occupied since 1967, Israel rules through apartheid and Israel is still actively taking Palestinian land and homes. He tries to justify violence against Palestinians by labelling them as 'terrorists' while ignoring acts that are also clearly terrorism.

Much of Israeli policy fits the definition of terrorism, from shooting protesters, to mass arrests, to targeting journalists and attacks by terrorist settlers that are backed by the state.

This happened in Feb this year and was the start of a massive increase in terrorist attacks on Palestinians.
Why does Ari refuse to mention this or the occupation?

Israel’s military called the settler attack on this Palestinian town a ‘pogrom.’ Videos show soldiers did little to stop it

 

[shack]

This was the first line of the post which you deliberately ignored.


You are lying about my posts again.
Stop it, its dishonourable.

I saw that line. What I don't see is you specificall mentioning Hamas and condemning their latest actions. More dishonesty from you. You're never afraid to talk specifically about Israeli occupation or apartheid. You never mention Hamas' attacks against civilians. Saying that war is a tragedy, is such a generic statement, it means nothing and is not a condemnation of Hamas' terrorist actions. So basically, you just lied again about saying that you've condemned their actions.

So I proved that you never condemned this latest round of Hamas violence and that makes me a liar? Where do you come up with this doublespeak? 1984?

 

[squeezer]

Yet that video doesn't mention that Palestine has been illegally occupied since 1967, Israel rules through apartheid and Israel is still actively taking Palestinian land and homes. He tries to justify violence against Palestinians by labelling them as 'terrorists' while ignoring acts that are also clearly terrorism.

Much of Israeli policy fits the definition of terrorism, from shooting protesters, to mass arrests, to targeting journalists and attacks by terrorist settlers that are backed by the state.

This happened in Feb this year and was the start of a massive increase in terrorist attacks on Palestinians.
Why does Ari refuse to mention this or the occupation?

Israel’s military called the settler attack on this Palestinian town a ‘pogrom.’ Videos show soldiers did little to stop it

The aggressor was Hamas, killing innocent people and taking hostages so in my book they deserve to burn, just as I believe Putin deserves a bullet in the head so do the Hamas leaders who started it.