Over the entire season I agree with you.
But check out his stats 15 days and 7 days before he was released.
Those were good numbers. Better than Cimber's numbers, thats for sure
Jays 2023
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But check out his stats 15 days and 7 days before he was released.
Those were good numbers. Better than Cimber's numbers, thats for sure
Schneider might work with teenagers or whatever, but he’s not a big league manager. He’s really not. I think we saw the first signs of that during the wildcard loss last year. Which is surprising because his record was actually amazing to that point. So many bonehead moves this year costing so many wins..
Last year‘s team was better. Way better chemistry. I don’t agree with Teoscar being replaced properly. He was the older brother that Vlady is not mature enough to become.
Philip
….., I knew they would miss Teoscar in the order. Protection for Vlady. They could have kept him and still went out and got Kiermaier and Belt, and traded for Varsho.
Anyways, it’s all hindsight it is what it is, and this team is going nowhere. Bring back the damn jacket lol. And fire the hitting coach…, bring in a bluejay legend to be the new hitting
coach and bring back Gibby.
Philip
It is not a choice of long term / short term. On June 8 (give or take a day or two) the Jays were required under MLB ROSTER RULES to demote somebody from the main roster. Bass at the time was the clear logical choice at the time as outlined below because he was a poor fit for what they needed, and other options to demote would not have cleared waivers.Over the entire season I agree with you.
But check out his stats 15 days and 7 days before he was released.
Those were good numbers. Better than Cimber's numbers, thats for sure
Those numbers were not better than Cimber's numbers at the date of the designation. Cimber had an ERA of 3.94 - he was skeptical, but had not imploded either.
Players actually understand how roster rules, options, the 30 day rehab rule (forced call up) actually work. They realize that ANTHONY BASS WOULD HAVE BEEN DESIGNATED FOR ASSIGNMENT WHETHER HE WAS A TRUDEAU LOVER OR A TRUMP LOVER. It was a baseball move. Whether he would have been released after the 10 day DFA period is more open for debate. On June 8 he did not fit on the MLB roster and was an easy player to pass through waivers.
Remember that Bass was not released or DFA'd when he made the insensitive remarks initially because he still earned that roster spot. It was several weeks later that he was ultimately DFA'd - when the Jays were forced to demote somebody to call up Mitch White.
When Mitch White's 30 day rehab assignment ended, and HE HAD TO BE CALLED UP BY MLB RULES and Alex Manoah went down meaning they needed length out of the pen (which Bass could not provide). So let's look at the options at the time;
- Mitch White would have 100% been claimed on waivers (given his miniscule contract) if they did not recall him. And he fit the role.
- Bowden Francis would have almost certainly been claimed + he fit a role.
- Trever Richards and Anthony Bass were the worst relievers on the team at the time, and Richards can go 2-3 innings unlike Bass.
- Adam Cimber had an ERA of 3.94 at the time. He would have very likely been claimed on waivers (at that time) He was pitching better than Bass at the time (still stinky though), as a low leverage reliever. It made no sense to DFA him, at that time, instead of Bass. Unfortunately after the last 3 weeks, Cimber would also clear waivers.
- Anthony Bass was struggling and had a contract of $3m this year and next. HE WOULD NOT BE CLAIMED ON WAIVERS on performance alone due to his contract size that extended into 2024. He was easily the most logical DFA for baseball reasons.
DFA is not the same as release though - it just forces you to put a player through waivers, and then you have 10 days to call the player back up, At least at the end of the 10 day period (around June 18) there may have been a debate as to whether he fit on the roster (politics aside)... on June 8 the decision to DFA him was easy.
The real issue is here is that the Jays have some poor bullpen options and a lack of guys coming up to push for those spots.
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I would also note that with Manoah out, the current 13 man staff works better without Bass. Thankfully Cimber is on the IL now.
If his demotion had not been earned it may have been an issue with the players. And understandably so as the players care less about politics and most about winning. But it was earned and players that understand roster rules knew that.
There are many issues with the Jays — but it’s not Bass being gone or the impact of demoting a player who earned it. Believing that is letting your personal politics steer you to the wrong direction.
If his demotion had not been earned it may have been an issue with the players. And understandably so as the players care less about politics and most about winning. But it was earned and players that understand roster rules knew that.
There are many issues with the Jays — but it’s not Bass being gone or the impact of demoting a player who earned it. Believing that is letting your personal politics steer you to the wrong direction.
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Anthony Bass drew a target on his own forehead with his Tweets. Prior to his last appearance on June 5, he had only surrendered one run in his previous ten appearances. The Jays would rather weaken their roster slightly than draw the ire of the Alphabet Community. I'm guessing that Rogers may have had some input in this decision.
Anthony Bass 2023 game logs.
Except for Phil's homophobia, not sure why Bass is still being defended? He already had an incident with American Airlines, the anti-LGBTQ religious crusade was the second chance he used up. He's an idiot, move on.
I'm more concerned with Alek Manoah's progress in AA. He did show up to camp overweight, he was made an example of by having teenagers score eleven runs on him. He's currently doing better in New Hampshire but I'm still not optomistic he'll be back this season.
I want the July 2022 Alek Manoah back, however long that takes.
I'm more concerned with Alek Manoah's progress in AA. He did show up to camp overweight, he was made an example of by having teenagers score eleven runs on him. He's currently doing better in New Hampshire but I'm still not optomistic he'll be back this season.
I want the July 2022 Alek Manoah back, however long that takes.
So you are just going to ignore his last appearance where he was terrible. Fact is he allowed 3 runs in his last 8 innings - not terrible but pedestrian. His numbers had been OK in largely low leverage situations in recent weeks, but his measurables / analytics on his stuff had shown no real progress as compared to prior year.
The coach no longer had faith in him in high leverage situations, and in low leverage situations he is a poor fit because he doesn't respond well to multiple innings.
Not surprised to see Phil McNasty give your post a like.
1) Your post excludes or ignores relevant info that should be considered (his last outing / low leverage)
2) Your post is about politics rather than baseball
3) And it allows Phil to dodge my question.
But 2 questions
#1) Once again purely baseball related, who do you and PHIL demote on or about June 8, when Mitch White is required by MLB rules to be called up on that specific day, and you need length for your bullpen for two upcoming bullpen starts because Manoah has lost it.. You can't carry 14 pitchers - its either White is waived (and lost), Francis is waived (and lost), Richards (who can go multiple innings), Cimber who is pitching better at the time than Bass (and if waived is likely claimed), or Bass. Politics fully removed the choice was 100% obvious.
#2) You claim the current roster is weaker without Bass. Given the Jays current situation (4 starters), who do you demote from the current 13 man staff that makes the team better with Bass instead of them. And why? Once again no politics. Remember that Cimber is on the IL right now so he is not a choice. Because that choice would be easy right now.
Also there are still very outspoken relievers like Blake Treinen who still have spots in MLB. So teams are willing to carry these types. Any team could have claimed Bass for free, or now pay him the minimum. Why aren't other teams doing so? Teams have access to pitch analytics and they see the real decline in his stuff.
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But over the last 30 days (approximately the same time Bass pitched) Cimber's stats were much worse than Bass.
And by quite a bit too
I would have waived Mitch White.
Other teams are also afraid to offend the Alphabet Community. The average age of a Major League Baseball fan who attends games is significantly higher than for the other Major pro sports in North America. Almost every stadium in the league has plenty of empty seats at every game, even for teams with good attendance. This is why the pitch clock was introduced, why both Leagues now have a DH, and why extra innings start with a runner on second base.
Games were too damned slow to attract and hold the youth market, with their notoriously short attention spans. Families with young children are reluctant to attend mid week night games, when there is a good possibility that the game won't be completed by 10:30 PM, as there will likely also be considerable additional time spent returning home.
While the Alphabet Community does not represent a large percentage of the attendance for live team sports, anything which offends them also offends the sizable demographic which takes personal offence on their behalf.
It would have been insignificant if Bass had tweeted that he thought the Bud Lite Trans promotion was a tactical error from the Bud suits. Bud Lite is consumed in the back of pickup trucks and in trailer homes, or by anyone who buys the cheapest brand at the store. Alphabet People don't and won't consume the product in any significant quantity; they're much more likely to buy a smaller quantity of a more expensive imported brand.
Bass crossed the line when he incited other people to join the boycott of Budweiser products. Baseball is a Show, and one of the unwritten rules of Show Business is that you do not piss off the folks who pay the bills. Budweiser does a lot of advertising, and a lot of that advertising is during team sports.
I don't think professional team owners care a lot about attracting the Alphabet Community to their events, but they do care a lot about not wanting those same people to publicly voice negative opinions about the sport.
Ryu’s Florida complex league rehab statt, shows some promise
www.sportsnet.ca
Blue Jays' Ryu gives up one run in three innings in first rehab appearance
Toronto Blue Jays right-hander Hyun Jin Ryu gave up one run in three innings on Tuesday in Florida Complex League action in his first rehab appearance since undergoing Tommy John surgery last June.
Manoah will start against Detroit on Friday. Sportsnet 590 is broadcasting the announcement by Schneider.
AA did a below average / bad job with the farm system. It was not good when he left and while he developed a few pitchers (Stroman / Sanchez) there was no position player of good caliber that was developed and reached the majors in his entire 8 year run, -- the best was Kevin Pillar.
AA's success was largely built off 3 brilliant moves:
1) Bautista cheap off the scrap heap
2) Encarnacion on the cheap (not sure if it was waivers or a jobber trade)
3) The Donaldson trade
But without developing talent the Jays got old quickly by 2016.
Here is the sad thing:
1) Shapiro / Atkins did a very good job developing talent in Cleveland. Right now with the Jays, the system stinks. They are not doing a good job in system development.
2) AA has done a great job developing, accumulating and managing talent in Atlanta. But he did below average in developing talent in Toronto.
None of those stats represent what Cimber was doing before te Bass release date.But over the last 30 days (approximately the same time Bass pitched) Cimber's stats were much worse than Bass.
And by quite a bit too
Cimber got injured in April - came back May 23. Between May 23 and Bass' demotion date he pitched 8 innings and gave up 3 runs.. many of those innings were in high leverage situations. His ERA was indeed 3.94 on that date.
It certainly made no sense to choose to waive him (and lose him) at this time. He was pitching better than Bass for the season, pitching more (since Bass had no trust of the manager), and was used in leverage (albeit skeptically). He would have been claimed on waivers unlike Bass.
Unfortunately he stank thereafter, but you can only make decisions with what you know at the time. At the time Cimber was by far the right call. and the players would have been more angry with that move than a Bass move, because they know it would have been purely a cost cut since they lose him on waivers for nothing.
Of course with how Cimber did afterwards, the team would have been better without him.
Ultimately the issue is not Bass, its not Cimber, its not politics. Its that Shapiro / Atkins have done a horrible job with organizational depth this year, via fringe signings or developing new prospects.
I don't like it (although to be fair i don't know everything the Jays are seeing in his development). I think he needed more time to work on his confidence / develop consistency in his mechanics before getting recalled. He threw a lot of balls last night (42 of 89) He is way too important a piece longer term, to try to rush back without fully figuring things out. He is not arbitration eligible until 2025 (so he is cheap .. less than a $1,000,000 this year and next) and he will also has multiple options remaining so he can be demoted to the minors again this year and next to figure things out. I don't understand the rush. Pick up some fringe starter at the deadline and cross your fingers. I certainly hope I am wrong.
The Jays must have been really impressed last night, or saw something in his mechanics that suggested he could make a temporary chance.
But he was pitching OK on June 8th - better than Bass due to leverage.
Thankfully now he is on the DL - he will get up to a 30 day rehab stint to figure out (I assume the Jays are not rushing to call him back)
He might never play another Jays game again - I can't see the Jays bringing him back, as his minimum arbitration number next year if retained is $3.1 million.
