villaneuva to the bucks
- Thread starter plyrs99
- Start date
Umm...
Tony Parker isn't much of a 3 point threat, but he can certainly CONSISTENTLY hit an open 18 - 20 footer...which is what we are talking about here...
...before you posted this, did you know that Parker shot 55% from the floor last season while scoring 19 ppg??? That figure is OUTRAGEOUS for a point guard...Choron said:
Tony Parker isn't much of a 3 point threat, but he can certainly CONSISTENTLY hit an open 18 - 20 footer...which is what we are talking about here...
I would say...
Notice how much time he spent on the bench this year for the Heat in the playoffs during key times?
That said, I personally would not say these numbers...
Williams:
FG% .442
FT% .867
3P% .372
are comparable to these...
Ford:
FG% .416
FT% .754
3P% .337
One is the statistical picture of a "typical" NBA point guard today...just under half your shots, just over a third of your 3 pointers, and 80%+ from the foul line.
The other is a guy who clearly cannot shoot...and before you say "hey - those numbers look close to me", know this: Williams took 606 shots, of which 288 were 3 pointers. Ford took 789 shots (in more games played), but only 104 were 3 pointers.
Ford took FAR fewer 3 pointers in more games...and still shoots nearly 3% points poorer than a guy that no one would call a consistent outisde shooter...Williams hit pretty much half his non 3 pointers....Ford didn't even come close (and remember, this is a guy who is known for getting to the rim and getting lay ups...which makes me think he might not have even hit a third of his jump shots...)...
Aren't you guys wondering why the Bucks were willing to trade him if indeed he has a future as a top 25% point guard in this league? Do the Bucks have some budding star sitting on the bench waiting to take over that I haven't heard of?
The truth is that after drafting him, and after being so invested in him emotionally after letting him come back from his injury, the Bucks saw what they needed to see last season, and made a trade that they think helps them out. Of couse, the same can be said of the Raps.
But - again - if I am going to take a risk, I rather it be with a 6' 11" guy with post up skills (i.e. proven scorer, post up skills are very handy in the NBA, especially come playoff time with the tough defense and half court sets) with no injury problems versus a 6' 1" whose game clearly has limitations and who has an history of injury...
...that Jason Williams can't shoot either - though he does have 3pt range. Williams is very streaky...sometimes he gets hot, but you cannot count on him to hit an open jumper.BottomsUp said:
Notice how much time he spent on the bench this year for the Heat in the playoffs during key times?
That said, I personally would not say these numbers...
Williams:
FG% .442
FT% .867
3P% .372
are comparable to these...
Ford:
FG% .416
FT% .754
3P% .337
One is the statistical picture of a "typical" NBA point guard today...just under half your shots, just over a third of your 3 pointers, and 80%+ from the foul line.
The other is a guy who clearly cannot shoot...and before you say "hey - those numbers look close to me", know this: Williams took 606 shots, of which 288 were 3 pointers. Ford took 789 shots (in more games played), but only 104 were 3 pointers.
Ford took FAR fewer 3 pointers in more games...and still shoots nearly 3% points poorer than a guy that no one would call a consistent outisde shooter...Williams hit pretty much half his non 3 pointers....Ford didn't even come close (and remember, this is a guy who is known for getting to the rim and getting lay ups...which makes me think he might not have even hit a third of his jump shots...)...
Aren't you guys wondering why the Bucks were willing to trade him if indeed he has a future as a top 25% point guard in this league? Do the Bucks have some budding star sitting on the bench waiting to take over that I haven't heard of?
The truth is that after drafting him, and after being so invested in him emotionally after letting him come back from his injury, the Bucks saw what they needed to see last season, and made a trade that they think helps them out. Of couse, the same can be said of the Raps.
But - again - if I am going to take a risk, I rather it be with a 6' 11" guy with post up skills (i.e. proven scorer, post up skills are very handy in the NBA, especially come playoff time with the tough defense and half court sets) with no injury problems versus a 6' 1" whose game clearly has limitations and who has an history of injury...
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Most??
I would think those things in combination would pretty much limit him from going to the rack on every other posession (not saying he isn't a great penetrator - saying you don't get to 19 pts per game that way when you can't hit 3 pointers and your best player plays 4/5 and is the best post up player in the league).
*I'd* say Tony Parker benefited from a lot of open looks thanks to Tim Duncan double teams...and has learned to consistently hit that open 18 to 20 footer, but hell...perhaps I am mistaken...
Really?? With Tim Duncan standing there in the middle? And with NO 3 pointer skills?Choron said:
I would think those things in combination would pretty much limit him from going to the rack on every other posession (not saying he isn't a great penetrator - saying you don't get to 19 pts per game that way when you can't hit 3 pointers and your best player plays 4/5 and is the best post up player in the league).
*I'd* say Tony Parker benefited from a lot of open looks thanks to Tim Duncan double teams...and has learned to consistently hit that open 18 to 20 footer, but hell...perhaps I am mistaken...
Huh?? I dont' understand your point.... I don't really like this trade mainly because you are trading a big man with great potential, for a "yet to be proven" 6' guard who does not have a good outside shot... nor has he proven that he understands the game or has the ability to be the floor general that BC seems to prefer for his uptempo offenseSneakyLB said:
However, BC is smart enough to realize that we really need a PG to start the season....
My first choice for a trade would have been to use our first round pick and Mike James (but I think James is a free agent already) to land a point guard..
I also don't like the fact that we are giving up a guy (CV) who has had pretty good first year, might better understand the offense, likes the cit.... to replace him with an unproven draft pick (#1 or not)
Having said all that.... if BC believes that's what we need to do, then I can live with it for now....
As I said, the comparison was between JW career stats and TJ's last year stats. They look pretty close to me as shown below. Maybe those stats will hold up, maybe they won't.MLAM said:
Williams:
FG% .396
PPG 11.7
3P% .320
Ford:
FG% .416
PPG 12.2
3P% .337
TJ Ford is not a top NBA PG but he addresses a need that the Raptors had which is a pass first PG. You can't expect every position to be filled by an all star unless you're the pistons. 
With Nesterovic at centre.
The team needs two more things....
1) a genuine second option for scoring
2) an improved bench
Hopefully by the end of the season we'll get to see what AB turns out to be like and see if Mitchell should stay or leave.
IMO if you can address the need for a PG and centre and still have over 10 mill in cap space you're looking pretty good.
With Nesterovic at centre.
The team needs two more things....
1) a genuine second option for scoring
2) an improved bench
Hopefully by the end of the season we'll get to see what AB turns out to be like and see if Mitchell should stay or leave.
IMO if you can address the need for a PG and centre and still have over 10 mill in cap space you're looking pretty good.
Both Bosh and Charlie V play the same position, that's why i asked you would you have rather traded Chris Bosh than Charlie V? Also the time to prove you are an NBA comes through during the sophmore season. I don't understand how you can say TJ Ford is an unproven guard when Charlie V has just played only 1 season. Plus Charlie V does not fit Colangelo's system because he's too slow and often is afraid to drive to the hop or get banged up. Mike James was already a Free Agent so he could not have been traded unless a sign and trade occured. The #1 pick had poor value this year to garner any interest from other teams so the idea of just simply trading this pick in hopes of getting a PG would of been tough.slowandeasy said:
Plus Bosh and TJ Ford are very familiar with each other not because of College Level but because they are from the same home town.
Its unreal how many people are trashing TJ's shooting ability when they don't realiz how good of a dribble penetrater he is. Tony Parker is a horrendous shooter but look at how he destroys the teams interior defense. They already have Bargnani shooting, Bosh has a great mid range shot for a big man, MoPete on the outside, so why do you need a 4th shooter? TJ for is now their slasher, if you can get points from a high percentage area, why the hell would he want to shoot? After all aren't coaches stressing players to take higher percentage shots?
So...are you saying...
Ford Career Stats
FG% .405
PPG 10.0
3P% .320
yup...future all star, that kid...
BTW - the injury plagued TJ Ford hasn't had a "career" yet...he has played roughly 120 games out of possible 240 since he was drafted....
...that if the Raps are LUCKY TJ Ford will mature and develop into Jason Williams?BottomsUp said:
Ford Career Stats
FG% .405
PPG 10.0
3P% .320
yup...future all star, that kid...
BTW - the injury plagued TJ Ford hasn't had a "career" yet...he has played roughly 120 games out of possible 240 since he was drafted....
We could still use another shooter, but more for our bench...I'm quite worried about our bench now...Who is going to back up Rasho? Hell, I still don't like Rasho as a starter though he's a lot better than what we had going into the season at the 5...
If AB can play the 5 eventually, he will give teams nightmares matchups with his outside shooting...Imagine keeping Shaq off the boards because you're always on the perimeter...It sounds like a future strategy of a good head coach to me...
If AB can play the 5 eventually, he will give teams nightmares matchups with his outside shooting...Imagine keeping Shaq off the boards because you're always on the perimeter...It sounds like a future strategy of a good head coach to me...
Are you too claiming...
You know - we are talking the NBA here...you REALLY think NBA defenses are gonna let a guy get to the rack to the tune of 19 ppg for an entire season? You don't think the scouts would have figured out "...hey...this guy can't shoot...just play off of him..."
And - I again ask - if Tim Duncan is getting double teamed on the block (as he often is), where is Tony Parker penetrating to again? Into a double team?
Tony Parker can shoot. He isn't Steve Nash, but he can (and does) hit open jump shots.
You guys do watch the games, right?
...that Tony Parker shot 55% from the field to the tune of 19 ppg last season via all lay ups??SneakyLB said:
You know - we are talking the NBA here...you REALLY think NBA defenses are gonna let a guy get to the rack to the tune of 19 ppg for an entire season? You don't think the scouts would have figured out "...hey...this guy can't shoot...just play off of him..."
And - I again ask - if Tim Duncan is getting double teamed on the block (as he often is), where is Tony Parker penetrating to again? Into a double team?
Tony Parker can shoot. He isn't Steve Nash, but he can (and does) hit open jump shots.
You guys do watch the games, right?
Tony Parker cannot shoot with a man on him. His set up shot needs a lot of time and room to get it off effectively.MLAM said:
Yes i watch a lot of the NBA, because i cap the games to make money off. If Tim Duncan is DT, he has either Ginobili, Bowen or Finley. If you are double teamed it means the lane is open. Maybe you need to figure out basketball tactics before asking if we watch the games or not.
Next time you watch Parker play, count how many SHOTS he actually attempts and how many LAY UPS he attempts.
I am not trashing TJ... but he needs to work on his outside shot.SneakyLB said:
I would not count on Bargnani's shooting right away... Our slasher should be Bosh who has all the skills... MoPete has a decent outside shot but has some really horrible shooting nights..... Bosh takes most of his shots from the area around the key.... If you are counting on Bargnani, Bosh and MoPete as your outside shooters, then we might win 30 games again.
I really like the idea of a penetrating guard... but once the first option off the penetration is covered, then you need to have a small forward/shooting guard who can tickle the twine from behind the line.... ..
I absolutely agree with you TJ needs to work on the outside shot. That is a definite, but i'm just saying with guys like Bosh/Nesterovic/Bargnani to dish the ball to when you slash the lane that's quite a combo. I mean Nesterovic....eh i'm not fond of him so if you can give him easy baskets that's great, just don't give him that jumper. Bargnani like you said, we should not count on it anyways so again give him the high percentage shots to give him confidence. The thing with Mike James, he slashed....and went to the hop himself. Yes he was entertaining when he was on fire but he really got too emotional and often just jacked up useless crap. One player on the roster that really needs to step up this year is Joey Graham. Other than MoPete, the Raps do not have a mid sized player than can shoot. If u look at the Phoenix Suns, they did not start out as a good shooting team. Colangelo just tweaked around to find role players. I am excited for the Raptors, i just hope they can actually put up a fight this year and not get blown apart. More importantly i hope they can actually finish off games cause there were far to many encounters where they could of won but just fell apart in the last minute. Remeber that Dallas game???slowandeasy said:
Nowitzki is a freak of nature.... And his shooting stoke is so sweet sometimes that I get all tingly inside.... If Bargnani develops to even 75% of Nowitzki, then we did well to draft him #1. Let's see how Bargnani handles the pressure of being the #1 pick, first ever # 1 not from the US or a US college etc... You can bet that there are alot of US College guys who want to prove that the Raps made a mistake...Choron said:
Needless to say, I hope that he turns to be the next Nowitzki (but one who takes the ball to the hoop more often)..... but I think we should not expect too much....
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