villaneuva to the bucks

[RTRD]

For a 5 year contract in the NBA...

29 is old?

....when you already have some injury history, I'd say "yes"...


I'm not saying the guy won't still be playing - I am saying his best years are already behind him....he'll never again be the guy who was lighting it up in Sac-town...

 

[Oil Please]

Michael Redd is easily Bosh level talent...

Like Fuck He is!

 

[Oil Please]

....when you already have some injury history, I'd say "yes"...


I'm not saying the guy won't still be playing - I am saying his best years are already behind him....he'll never again be the guy who was lighting it up in Sac-town...

I wouldn't have signed him either. I just wanted to know what you thought old was.

 

[Oil Please]

Add possible free agents such as Drew Gooden, Tim Thomas, and/or Al Harrington and suddenly the Raptors look like a serious contender in the East. Hope BC can make it happen. I don't remember being so excited about the upcoming season since 2001.

Tim Thomas would be great.

 

[Oil Please]

Tim Thomas shouldn't be leaving Phoenix...He's at a point in his career where he wants to win a championchip...

Tim Thomas is like any other player! Money talks!

 

[wonkyknee]

ball hog or not...

it is well documented here that T.J. Ford is not a great shooter, CV is gone, and if M.James leaves, the Raptors are down about 25 points/game of production on the offensive end. T.J. Ford may have to get his assists up to 18/game to get the offense back on track.

 

[RTRD]

Ok...

"they'll be a better club than they were last year watching James jack it up off the never-ending dribble and Bosh languish for long stretches without the ball."


"So while Ford is a risk — while a spinal cord injury kept him out of the entire 2004-05 season recovering from surgery — even more risky was the possibility that Villanueva, who needed constant butt-kickings from the coaching staff last season, could see his career flat-line or regress."

...so now I understand a bit better, and can see how someone could justify the deal.

I still don't make it myself. Both CV and Ford are a risk, and I still maintain that 6' 1" guys who can't shoot are a hell of a lot easier to find than 6' 11" guys who can (post up) and who are willing to hit the boards.

But I guess BC figured he already had one (Bosh) and didn't need a second.

I understand and somewhat agree that if Ford develops AND if the Raptors surround him with the right talent then he means a brighter future for the team than having two guys with essentially the same game, except one being much better than the other.

But I also still maintain that they could have found said point guard elsewhere who has an equally good a chance of becoming the player they need Ford to be, and without having to give up CV. Again, 6' 1" point guards with footspeed who cannot shoot grow on trees. Top notch point guards don't - but TJ Ford hasn't shown *ME* anything that says he is on the way to being a top notch point guard...or can someone else show me the difference (so far) between him and the mentioned Rafer Alston?

Its a gamble that COULD pay off...and maybe it will turn out that BC got rid of a headache problem. But on paper I still do not make this deal...

 

[Choron]

Like Fuck He is!

Ugh...he is...

 

[Choron]

"they'll be a better club than they were last year watching James jack it up off the never-ending dribble and Bosh languish for long stretches without the ball."


"So while Ford is a risk — while a spinal cord injury kept him out of the entire 2004-05 season recovering from surgery — even more risky was the possibility that Villanueva, who needed constant butt-kickings from the coaching staff last season, could see his career flat-line or regress."

...so now I understand a bit better, and can see how someone could justify the deal.

I still don't make it myself. Both CV and Ford are a risk, and I still maintain that 6' 1" guys who can't shoot are a hell of a lot easier to find than 6' 11" guys who can (post up) and who are willing to hit the boards.

But I guess BC figured he already had one (Bosh) and didn't need a second.

I understand and somewhat agree that if Ford develops AND if the Raptors surround him with the right talent then he means a brighter future for the team than having two guys with essentially the same game, except one being much better than the other.

But I also still maintain that they could have found said point guard elsewhere who has an equally good a chance of becoming the player they need Ford to be, and without having to give up CV. Again, 6' 1" point guards with footspeed who cannot shot grow on trees. Top notch point guards don't - but TJ Ford hasn't shown *ME* anything that says he is on the way to being a top notch point guard...or can someone else show me the difference (so far) between him and the mentioned Rafer Alston?

Its a gamble that COULD pay off...and maybe it will turn out that BC got rid of a headache problem. But on paper I still do not make this deal...

The Italian is a shooter as well...

Rafer Alston was not confident or young when we got him...(still isn't) T.J. has much more potential and has already displayed the game of a starting NBA point guard...

Another bonus is that Ford and Bosh are friends...

 

[SneakyLB]

why are there a lot of people concerned about his shooting ability when the whole point of getting him was for his passing ability. A lot of PGs aren't good shooters. There wasn't a lot of availabilty of PGs with better shooting. Just go through the assist leaders and you will see the horrendous FG% on majority of the PGs with the exception of a few.

 

[slowandeasy]

why are there a lot of people concerned about his shooting ability when the whole point of getting him was for his passing ability. A lot of PGs aren't good shooters. There wasn't a lot of availabilty of PGs with better shooting. Just go through the assist leaders and you will see the horrendous FG% on majority of the PGs with the exception of a few.

If you are 6' 11 (6'9" in Ben Wallaces case) can play Defence, block shots and intimidate people.... then you can be a major contributor to an NBA champion...... If you are 6' tall no matter how fast, how great of a penetrator, passer, at 6' tall you are never going to be a defensive stopper against bigger NBA guards...... with the new zone defences in the league.... all a team has to do is to sag back, block your passing lanes and watch you spin your wheels as they double team your big guys....

That's why you need a PG that can hit some shots...

 

[Oil Please]

Ugh...he is...

YOU HAVE NO CLUE! So you would trade Bosh for Redd?

 

[Choron]

YOU HAVE NO CLUE! So you would trade Bosh for Redd?

Please don't put fuckin words in my mouth...I never said I would trade Bosh for Redd...I only said there are both all-star level players...We don't need to lose our best big man(especially since Bosh is a lot younger)..

Ok?

Thanks Champ

 

[Oil Please]

Michael Redd is easily Bosh level talent...

This is you're quote!

 

[Choron]

ok but show me please where did I say that I would " trade Bosh for redd"(quote/unquote)

 

[SneakyLB]

If you are 6' 11 (6'9" in Ben Wallaces case) can play Defence, block shots and intimidate people.... then you can be a major contributor to an NBA champion...... If you are 6' tall no matter how fast, how great of a penetrator, passer, at 6' tall you are never going to be a defensive stopper against bigger NBA guards...... with the new zone defences in the league.... all a team has to do is to sag back, block your passing lanes and watch you spin your wheels as they double team your big guys....

That's why you need a PG that can hit some shots...

ok than so you would of rather traded Chris Bosh for TJ Ford?

 

[RTRD]

Thank you...

If you are 6' 11 (6'9" in Ben Wallaces case) can play Defence, block shots and intimidate people.... then you can be a major contributor to an NBA champion...... If you are 6' tall no matter how fast, how great of a penetrator, passer, at 6' tall you are never going to be a defensive stopper against bigger NBA guards...... with the new zone defences in the league.... all a team has to do is to sag back, block your passing lanes and watch you spin your wheels as they double team your big guys....

That's why you need a PG that can hit some shots...

....for explaining it.

The main reason why these type of point guards point guards (Speedy Claxton, Jamaal Tinsley, Rafer Alston...I could go all day) never make it to the next level is because they cannot shoot - and hence defenses simply sag to prevent the penetration and cut off the passing lanes. Yes, they get their 4 - 6 assists a game running the floor, but they never really succeed at running a set offense.

It isn't really about the stats - like I said, Mo Cheeks made an entire career out of 12 and 6. But Mo could shoot...and was such a good point guard that he often created a shot for someone else with the 2nd pass...meaning he knew how to set up a teammate by passing to a DIFFERENT player...

If the NBA gave credit for the 2nd pass like the do in hockey Mo Cheeks would be the all time leader in assist, not John Stockton....

 

[basketcase]

If you are 6' 11 (6'9" in Ben Wallaces case) can play Defence, block shots and intimidate people.... then you can be a major contributor to an NBA champion...... ...

But Charlie will never be these.

 

[BottomsUp]

I guess we'll just have to wait till fall to see how well he fits in. I wouldn't say he's a stiff shooting wise. Ave. 12.2 last year. I looked for an accomplished point guard who he is comparable to and found Jason Williams (heat) career stats in PPG and FG % to be very comparable to TJ's 2005/06 stats. About the same size and both possess great ball handling ability. So, if you like Williams, you should like TJ...maybe.

 

[Choron]

....for explaining it.

The main reason why these type of point guards point guards (Speedy Claxton, Jamaal Tinsley, Rafer Alston...I could go all day) never make it to the next level is because they cannot shoot - and hence defenses simply sag to prevent the penetration and cut off the passing lanes. Yes, they ge there 4 - 6 assists a game running the floor, but they never really suceed at running a set offense.

It isn't really about the stats - like I said, Mo Cheeks made an entire career out of 12 and 6. But Mo could shoot...and was such a good point guard that he often created a shot for someone else with the 2nd pass...meaning he knew how to set up a teammate by passing to a DIFFERENT player...

If the NBA gave credit for the 2nd pass like the do in hockey Mo Cheeks would be the all time leader in assist, not John Stockton....

Tony Parker can't shoot and he's still a great guard...T.J. is a better passer than Parker but isn't as quick at penetrating(he could still get that good at dribble penetration)