Look at all the TDS in this thread...you guys cry about this all the time...but really have only supported the carnage keep going instead of ending the war? Swallow your fucking pride and say, Trump is at least looking to end these stupid war games....or is that too much to ask and you'd rather have more Ukrainians and Russians deaths....just so you can say...Trump didn't do shit...pathetic...funny....but pathetic...I do agree, Bibi is also now playing him like a fiddle after Trump's ridiculous Gaza Retreat development fantasy. Bibi, Putin and to a lesser degree Kim Jong will pull on his puppet strings and watch him dance for them.
Yet Franky and his Arab buddies didn't support Harris thus choosing to have Trump as number 47. Let Fantasy Gaza with Trumputin plaza commence!!!!!
Ukraine-Russia peace talks to start this friday in Munich
- Thread starter Phil C. McNasty
- Start date
If I was a Democrat supporter, I would also be looking for every angle of which to critique the current peace talks.
The rest of us can respond WTF was Biden doing the last year.
They would rather see WW3 and the entire world destroyed, then give Trump credit for ending the Ukraine war
It's not a question of whether the empires dissolving was a bad thing. The Austrian and Ottoman empires were crumbling and weak. Many groups of people resented rule from Vienna and Constantinople. So they went to the dustbin of history as they should.
What matters is the difficulty of establishing boundaries along ethnic lines. Problems in the Balkans before and after Tito created Yugoslavia. Conflicts in the Mideast. All have some of their origin from the aftermath of World War I, the dissolution of the two empires and the attempts to draw new national borders at Versailles in 1919.
Phrases like Balkanization and drawing lines in the sand have relevance to 1919.
It’s best to get a peace deal done. The world needs to get Russia back into the fold instead of being isolated the way it is.
Right. I forgot the Ukrainians started the war by allowing the Russians to invade.
Thanks for the reminder.
That might not happen until a Post-Putin Russia. I don't think Germany and others will simply go back to the Merkel ways of dealing with Russia.
Putin seems like a hardcore revanchist that is smart enough to know the limits of Russian power. Until he leaves office, he will continue to be a threat and nuisance trying to elevate Russia's influence around the world.
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You have the floor.
Do you have a nice, neat solution to ending the war?
The outcome we will see was likely achievable in 2024 perhaps earlier.
The only way the war ends is for Ukraine to waive the white flag, and Russia would get everything they want. Russia will not stop the war until they get everything they want and they could do this for 20 more years.
There is always an alternative...Kill the Ukraine's NATO admission...why do they have to join NATO anyways? Will Russia withdraw? We will find that out if they finally sit down and figure out what's best for both...Zelensky will exit before Putin does...IMO the peace deal between Ukraine-Russia is more achievable than Hamas-Israel...
I'm not sure what you are suggesting.
Of course, Russia can always later find a weak rationalization for further encroachments into the Ukraine. It's been a terribly destructive war for the Russians. I don't think they will be chomping at the bit to get into further conflict with the Ukraine.
More than likely Russia will try to fuck with the Ukraine's internal politics. It seems that Putin's goal is to have some sense of influence over the Ukraine while keeping the West out. This is the danger of the neighborhood.
There seems to be a weird thing people believe that a peace deal is possible before the two sides who are shooting at each other both think a peace deal is their best solution.
I don't know where your head is at. You've focused on Trump here and so have several members.
If you follow the thread, a lot of members believe you do what you have to do to end the conflict. This might include leaving the Ukrainians out of the talks. The Russians are not going to be humiliated at the peace talks even if that would be desirable.
Of course, the next argument would be what if the Ukrainians don't accept the terms. If they choose, they can fight on without U.S. support. In the modern history of peace talks, the countries with the most at stake have often had limited influence on the agreement. South Korea did not sign the armistice that ended the Korean conflict. South Korean President Rhee wanted to defeat North Korea and unify the Korean peninsula.
Val, you can always ask questions. You can always harbor animosity towards Trump.
Often people who ask questions are simply trying to prompt certain answers. They are not necessarily conversational. I do that too myself on occasion.
As far as Zelensky's political support within the Ukraine, every Ukrainian knows the Ukrainians didn't stand a chance and still don't stand a chance without U.S. armaments.
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Wow, what's messed up is twisting around what I said....................AGAIN.
The purpose of my post was simply to point out how you misrepresented the poll. Done.
This thread is about the peace talks regarding Ukraine. You are derailing it, by bringing up your favourite topic of Israel. It's disrespectful.
You've shifted the goal posts.
The Ukrainians had to defend themselves. Without Biden Ukraine is likely back in the Russian empire. So the criticism of Biden is unwarranted, if you are pro-ukrainian. If you're pro-russian, then yes, Biden is bad. That was the comment.
Now the shift - The Trump administration started negotiations at allowing Putin's aggression to stand, and by declaring Ukraine will not be part of NATO, and Trump is saying Russia needs to be part of the G-8. Thus, rewarding Putin. Putin could stop the slaughter in an instant. Not Biden. Not Trump. Not Zelinskyy. Putin. He's the person with 100% of the power to stop. But he's being rewarded for his aggression by Trump. He was not rewarded by Biden.
So as one can see by starting negotiations at Ukraine giving up land forcibly taken by Russia and by declaring no NATO for Ukraine Putin has won before the first meeting. The "dealmaker" gave it away.
Russia out of Ukraine. Ukraine with a non NATO European Army presence.
You think a peace deal is achievable between the 2 in conflict without a broker?
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No, not really. You've shifted the goal posts is often a rhetorical crutch. Similar to members who lean into You haven't answered my question.
First, I don't think Russia is leaving the Ukraine or the Crimean peninsula. That's a fanciful thought. If you think it is achievable the war might need to go on another two years with the risk of the Ukraine not surviving.
Second, I don't care if Trump seeks rapprochement with Russia. Pushing Russia towards China has not served the West's interests. The G-8 is just a silly international hootenanny. The real business gets done between Central bankers. Anyways, Merkel was always the Queen of Russian Rapprochement if you can stand back and take Trump out of the equation for just a small moment.
Lastly, you don't know what the deal will look like. It probably will not make many here happy because they will be certain a better outcome could be had or some kind of punishment for Russia can be meted out.
PS- I was saying all last year that the Biden Administration should end the Ukrainian conflict even when Harris was ahead in the polls. If he could have gotten a better deal, they should have done it during his last year. This is a fair point because you think Trump is not negotiating well.
You seem firmly in this Russia must be punished somehow for their aggression camp. That's just not how battlefield stalemates are resolved.
