You have the floor.
Do you have a nice, neat solution to ending the war?
The outcome we will see was likely achievable in 2024 perhaps earlier.
Ukraine-Russia peace talks to start this friday in Munich
- Thread starter Phil C. McNasty
- Start date
Do you have a nice, neat solution to ending the war?
The outcome we will see was likely achievable in 2024 perhaps earlier.
The only way the war ends is for Ukraine to waive the white flag, and Russia would get everything they want. Russia will not stop the war until they get everything they want and they could do this for 20 more years.
There is always an alternative...Kill the Ukraine's NATO admission...why do they have to join NATO anyways? Will Russia withdraw? We will find that out if they finally sit down and figure out what's best for both...Zelensky will exit before Putin does...IMO the peace deal between Ukraine-Russia is more achievable than Hamas-Israel...
I'm not sure what you are suggesting.
Of course, Russia can always later find a weak rationalization for further encroachments into the Ukraine. It's been a terribly destructive war for the Russians. I don't think they will be chomping at the bit to get into further conflict with the Ukraine.
More than likely Russia will try to fuck with the Ukraine's internal politics. It seems that Putin's goal is to have some sense of influence over the Ukraine while keeping the West out. This is the danger of the neighborhood.
There seems to be a weird thing people believe that a peace deal is possible before the two sides who are shooting at each other both think a peace deal is their best solution.
I don't know where your head is at. You've focused on Trump here and so have several members.
If you follow the thread, a lot of members believe you do what you have to do to end the conflict. This might include leaving the Ukrainians out of the talks. The Russians are not going to be humiliated at the peace talks even if that would be desirable.
Of course, the next argument would be what if the Ukrainians don't accept the terms. If they choose, they can fight on without U.S. support. In the modern history of peace talks, the countries with the most at stake have often had limited influence on the agreement. South Korea did not sign the armistice that ended the Korean conflict. South Korean President Rhee wanted to defeat North Korea and unify the Korean peninsula.
Val, you can always ask questions. You can always harbor animosity towards Trump.
Often people who ask questions are simply trying to prompt certain answers. They are not necessarily conversational. I do that too myself on occasion.
As far as Zelensky's political support within the Ukraine, every Ukrainian knows the Ukrainians didn't stand a chance and still don't stand a chance without U.S. armaments.
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Wow, what's messed up is twisting around what I said....................AGAIN.
The purpose of my post was simply to point out how you misrepresented the poll. Done.
This thread is about the peace talks regarding Ukraine. You are derailing it, by bringing up your favourite topic of Israel. It's disrespectful.
You've shifted the goal posts.
The Ukrainians had to defend themselves. Without Biden Ukraine is likely back in the Russian empire. So the criticism of Biden is unwarranted, if you are pro-ukrainian. If you're pro-russian, then yes, Biden is bad. That was the comment.
Now the shift - The Trump administration started negotiations at allowing Putin's aggression to stand, and by declaring Ukraine will not be part of NATO, and Trump is saying Russia needs to be part of the G-8. Thus, rewarding Putin. Putin could stop the slaughter in an instant. Not Biden. Not Trump. Not Zelinskyy. Putin. He's the person with 100% of the power to stop. But he's being rewarded for his aggression by Trump. He was not rewarded by Biden.
So as one can see by starting negotiations at Ukraine giving up land forcibly taken by Russia and by declaring no NATO for Ukraine Putin has won before the first meeting. The "dealmaker" gave it away.
Russia out of Ukraine. Ukraine with a non NATO European Army presence.
You think a peace deal is achievable between the 2 in conflict without a broker?
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No, not really. You've shifted the goal posts is often a rhetorical crutch. Similar to members who lean into You haven't answered my question.
First, I don't think Russia is leaving the Ukraine or the Crimean peninsula. That's a fanciful thought. If you think it is achievable the war might need to go on another two years with the risk of the Ukraine not surviving.
Second, I don't care if Trump seeks rapprochement with Russia. Pushing Russia towards China has not served the West's interests. The G-8 is just a silly international hootenanny. The real business gets done between Central bankers. Anyways, Merkel was always the Queen of Russian Rapprochement if you can stand back and take Trump out of the equation for just a small moment.
Lastly, you don't know what the deal will look like. It probably will not make many here happy because they will be certain a better outcome could be had or some kind of punishment for Russia can be meted out.
PS- I was saying all last year that the Biden Administration should end the Ukrainian conflict even when Harris was ahead in the polls. If he could have gotten a better deal, they should have done it during his last year. This is a fair point because you think Trump is not negotiating well.
You seem firmly in this Russia must be punished somehow for their aggression camp. That's just not how battlefield stalemates are resolved.
First, I did answer your question. Inexplained why your moniker for Biden was wrong. You introduced the peacec plan challenge, which was the goal post move.
I did offer a suggestion at the end despite this shift in topic.
Second, yes, Russia MUST give up something. That's what a negotiation is. You can call it punishment. I dont. Right now the "negotiation" is to give Russia everything it has taken by force, and only deny it complete ownership of Ukraine.
Regardless of solution, I have no doubts Putin will continue to undermine Ukraine and will figure a way to get Zelinskyy on the 23rd floor of some building or get him polonium tea.
A European Force in Ukraine along a DMZ is what needs to happen. And some phased in program for Russia to rejoin the world if it behaves.
There's a great line about General Patton's moniker "Old Blood & Guts". The soldiers quipped our blood, his guts.
In this case, it's their blood, your guts and America's treasure.
Half of Ukrainians Want Quick, Negotiated End to War
Ukrainians are growing increasingly weary of the war with Russia. Gallup's latest surveys of Ukraine show 52% would like to see the war end as soon as possible.
news.gallup.com
As Trump talks of ending war, Ukraine losing ground to Russia
Ukrainian commanders say they do not have enough reserves to sustain defense lines and new recruits are unprepared and sometimes abandon positions.
www.pbs.org
This is all about a shift from rules based order to rule by force. The US has been killing the power of international treaties and organizations like the UN and NATO over the last few years and is now going further with trump, who imagines the world ruled by one of three, China, Russia or the US.Half of Ukrainians Want Quick, Negotiated End to War
Ukrainians are growing increasingly weary of the war with Russia. Gallup's latest surveys of Ukraine show 52% would like to see the war end as soon as possible.
As Trump talks of ending war, Ukraine losing ground to Russia
Ukrainian commanders say they do not have enough reserves to sustain defense lines and new recruits are unprepared and sometimes abandon positions.
trump imagines that giving Ukraine to Putin will give himself personal gain and doesn't consider the EU as a partner any more than he considers Canada or Mexico. To him its a world of mafia bosses and he wants to sit at the table with the baddest of the bosses.
Globally this is isolating the US, we see it here with the tariffs and this will hit americans hard as well. Gutting the government at the same time you are trying to assert US mafia power across the planet is just idiotic.
The real repercussions of trump siding with Putin will be felt at BRICS and the EU, where everyone sees threats of tariffs and any treaties as becoming totally valueless.
Isolationism has had massive failures in the past, from WWII to the great depression. Trying to refocus the world around petro states is way too old school.
Russia is now relying on Iranian, North Korean and Chinese weapons. Ukraine as the backing of the EU. trump chose Russia/North Korea and Iran as partners.
Idiotic.
What he wants is a seat with the biggest mafia bosses on the planet.
Thats true.
But in this case it's the Ukrainians fighting and dying for Ukraine. Thus it's their blood and their guts (and US and European $).
If the USA decides to invade Canada would the Canadians capitulate immediately?
Back in Oz there was a real concern about a Japanese invasion in 1941. At the time Australia had maybe 7m people. Japan had 10 times the population. Thus units would be buried in the outback, and the major defence was Brisbane to Adelaide. Everything else unguarded. But these units would harass and murder and cut comms and unrelenting terrorism upon Japanese troops. I'd hope Canada would do the same, although technology today makes the specific 1940 Aussie plan obsolete.
And I do agree with you Wyatt that there has to be a settlement of some sort. So no disagreement.
But the Ukrainians have to want it too.
Moreover, the ideas being floated about by US authorities basically start with giving Russia everything it stole, and giving it international benefits. This is beyond appeasement. History suggests that will not work. The Baltics or Poland will be next. The Russians are working overtime to undermine those countries as we speak. If Putin gets everything he took, it will embolden him.
And who knows - Trump has shown that treaties and contracts and laws mean nothing to him. So...why not tickle NATO and see what Trump does?
Anyhow, forgive the rant. You're an interesting bloke to discuss with.
I don't recall the last time I read something so stupid.
So if there were talks between trump and Rasputin regarding whether Canada becomes the 51st state without the Canadian PM being there (it could be anybody from any party) you would declare that that proves that Canada is not a sovereign nation?
There's a reason why your posts are rarely taken seriously.
GO Zelensky GOOOOOOOO, I hope he tells Trump and Putin to FUCK OFF!!!
Zelensky warns the days of America’s guaranteed support for Europe are over
Zelensky warns the days of America’s guaranteed support for Europe are over
