Ukraine-Russia peace talks to start this friday in Munich

[kherg007]

No, not really. You've shifted the goal posts is often a rhetorical crutch. Similar to members who lean into You haven't answered my question.



First, I don't think Russia is leaving the Ukraine or the Crimean peninsula. That's a fanciful thought. If you think it is achievable the war might need to go on another two years with the risk of the Ukraine not surviving.

Second, I don't care if Trump seeks rapprochement with Russia. Pushing Russia towards China has not served the West's interests. The G-8 is just a silly international hootenanny. The real business gets done between Central bankers. Anyways, Merkel was always the Queen of Russian Rapprochement if you can stand back and take Trump out of the equation for just a small moment.

Lastly, you don't know what the deal will look like. It probably will not make many here happy because they will be certain a better outcome could be had or some kind of punishment for Russia can be meted out.

PS- I was saying all last year that the Biden Administration should end the Ukrainian conflict even when Harris was ahead in the polls. If he could have gotten a better deal, they should have done it during his last year. This is a fair point because you think Trump is not negotiating well.

You seem firmly in this Russia must be punished somehow for their aggression camp. That's just not how battlefield stalemates are resolved.

First, I did answer your question. Inexplained why your moniker for Biden was wrong. You introduced the peacec plan challenge, which was the goal post move.
I did offer a suggestion at the end despite this shift in topic.

Second, yes, Russia MUST give up something. That's what a negotiation is. You can call it punishment. I dont. Right now the "negotiation" is to give Russia everything it has taken by force, and only deny it complete ownership of Ukraine.

Regardless of solution, I have no doubts Putin will continue to undermine Ukraine and will figure a way to get Zelinskyy on the 23rd floor of some building or get him polonium tea.
A European Force in Ukraine along a DMZ is what needs to happen. And some phased in program for Russia to rejoin the world if it behaves.

 

[WyattEarp]

First, I did answer your question. Inexplained why your moniker for Biden was wrong. You introduced the peacec plan challenge, which was the goal post move.
I did offer a suggestion at the end despite this shift in topic.

Second, yes, Russia MUST give up something. That's what a negotiation is. You can call it punishment. I dont. Right now the "negotiation" is to give Russia everything it has taken by force, and only deny it complete ownership of Ukraine.

Regardless of solution, I have no doubts Putin will continue to undermine Ukraine and will figure a way to get Zelinskyy on the 23rd floor of some building or get him polonium tea.
A European Force in Ukraine along a DMZ is what needs to happen. And some phased in program for Russia to rejoin the world if it behaves.

There's a great line about General Patton's moniker "Old Blood & Guts". The soldiers quipped our blood, his guts.

In this case, it's their blood, your guts and America's treasure.

 

[WyattEarp]

Half of Ukrainians Want Quick, Negotiated End to War

Ukrainians are growing increasingly weary of the war with Russia. Gallup's latest surveys of Ukraine show 52% would like to see the war end as soon as possible.

news.gallup.com

As Trump talks of ending war, Ukraine losing ground to Russia

Ukrainian commanders say they do not have enough reserves to sustain defense lines and new recruits are unprepared and sometimes abandon positions.

www.pbs.org

 

[Frankfooter]

Half of Ukrainians Want Quick, Negotiated End to War

Ukrainians are growing increasingly weary of the war with Russia. Gallup's latest surveys of Ukraine show 52% would like to see the war end as soon as possible.

news.gallup.com

As Trump talks of ending war, Ukraine losing ground to Russia

Ukrainian commanders say they do not have enough reserves to sustain defense lines and new recruits are unprepared and sometimes abandon positions.

www.pbs.org

This is all about a shift from rules based order to rule by force. The US has been killing the power of international treaties and organizations like the UN and NATO over the last few years and is now going further with trump, who imagines the world ruled by one of three, China, Russia or the US.

trump imagines that giving Ukraine to Putin will give himself personal gain and doesn't consider the EU as a partner any more than he considers Canada or Mexico. To him its a world of mafia bosses and he wants to sit at the table with the baddest of the bosses.

Globally this is isolating the US, we see it here with the tariffs and this will hit americans hard as well. Gutting the government at the same time you are trying to assert US mafia power across the planet is just idiotic.

The real repercussions of trump siding with Putin will be felt at BRICS and the EU, where everyone sees threats of tariffs and any treaties as becoming totally valueless.
Isolationism has had massive failures in the past, from WWII to the great depression. Trying to refocus the world around petro states is way too old school.

Russia is now relying on Iranian, North Korean and Chinese weapons. Ukraine as the backing of the EU. trump chose Russia/North Korea and Iran as partners.
Idiotic.

What he wants is a seat with the biggest mafia bosses on the planet.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1890167562987556869

 

[kherg007]

There's a great line about General Patton's moniker "Old Blood & Guts". The soldiers quipped our blood, his guts.

In this case, it's their blood, your guts and America's treasure.

Thats true.
But in this case it's the Ukrainians fighting and dying for Ukraine. Thus it's their blood and their guts (and US and European $).
If the USA decides to invade Canada would the Canadians capitulate immediately?
Back in Oz there was a real concern about a Japanese invasion in 1941. At the time Australia had maybe 7m people. Japan had 10 times the population. Thus units would be buried in the outback, and the major defence was Brisbane to Adelaide. Everything else unguarded. But these units would harass and murder and cut comms and unrelenting terrorism upon Japanese troops. I'd hope Canada would do the same, although technology today makes the specific 1940 Aussie plan obsolete.
And I do agree with you Wyatt that there has to be a settlement of some sort. So no disagreement.
But the Ukrainians have to want it too.
Moreover, the ideas being floated about by US authorities basically start with giving Russia everything it stole, and giving it international benefits. This is beyond appeasement. History suggests that will not work. The Baltics or Poland will be next. The Russians are working overtime to undermine those countries as we speak. If Putin gets everything he took, it will embolden him.
And who knows - Trump has shown that treaties and contracts and laws mean nothing to him. So...why not tickle NATO and see what Trump does?
Anyhow, forgive the rant. You're an interesting bloke to discuss with.

 

[mitchell76]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1890845552729899258

Zelensky reveals that he was NOT invited to the meeting between Trump and Putin scheduled for next week. This is further confirmation that Ukraine is not actually a sovereign nation, and they are proxy of the CIA/State Dept. Zelensky is a Deep State puppet, and Trump knows it. The negotiations to end the war will go through Trump and Putin, and ultimately, Zelensky will do whatever he is told. He does not have a choice.

 

[oil&gas]

 

[shack]

Zelensky reveals that he was NOT invited to the meeting between Trump and Putin scheduled for next week. This is further confirmation that Ukraine is not actually a sovereign nation,

I don't recall the last time I read something so stupid.

So if there were talks between trump and Rasputin regarding whether Canada becomes the 51st state without the Canadian PM being there (it could be anybody from any party) you would declare that that proves that Canada is not a sovereign nation?

There's a reason why your posts are rarely taken seriously.

 

[squeezer]

GO Zelensky GOOOOOOOO, I hope he tells Trump and Putin to FUCK OFF!!!

Zelensky warns the days of America’s guaranteed support for Europe are over

 

[squeezer]

Fake US Promises to Ukraine? Kaja Kallas’ Emotional Warning | Munich 2025

 

[oil&gas]

Zelensky warns the days of America’s guaranteed support for Europe are over

In that case Zelensky should settle for security guarantee
of Ukraine from Europe and let Europe worries about its
own security. There will be a time for Zelensky to make nice
and ally with Russia to get even with Europe for making
a fool out of him.

On a more serious note I think some of you have to be naive
to think Trump can just surrender the U.S. to Putin and get away
with it. The POTUS is not all powerful. His every move is watched.

The U.S. strategy in sustaining American hegemony could be
one of splitting Russia's alliance to its now most powerful enemy
economically and militarily, namely China.

 

[WyattEarp]

Thats true.
But in this case it's the Ukrainians fighting and dying for Ukraine. Thus it's their blood and their guts (and US and European $).
If the USA decides to invade Canada would the Canadians capitulate immediately?
Back in Oz there was a real concern about a Japanese invasion in 1941. At the time Australia had maybe 7m people. Japan had 10 times the population. Thus units would be buried in the outback, and the major defence was Brisbane to Adelaide. Everything else unguarded. But these units would harass and murder and cut comms and unrelenting terrorism upon Japanese troops. I'd hope Canada would do the same, although technology today makes the specific 1940 Aussie plan obsolete.
And I do agree with you Wyatt that there has to be a settlement of some sort. So no disagreement.
But the Ukrainians have to want it too.
Moreover, the ideas being floated about by US authorities basically start with giving Russia everything it stole, and giving it international benefits. This is beyond appeasement. History suggests that will not work. The Baltics or Poland will be next. The Russians are working overtime to undermine those countries as we speak. If Putin gets everything he took, it will embolden him.
And who knows - Trump has shown that treaties and contracts and laws mean nothing to him. So...why not tickle NATO and see what Trump does?
Anyhow, forgive the rant. You're an interesting bloke to discuss with.

I've been reading that they're trying to get the Ukraine a seat at the table. It would appear if some are concerned about Trump's diligence, perhaps Vance is playing the bad cop. Vance is out there talking tougher.

I and others have been warning since the Ukrainian counterattack stalled that people would not be pleased with a peace agreement. I am even concerned more because I think the Russians are getting results however slowly. Now it would seem the Ukrainian public wants an end to the hostilities.

I'm sorry. This belief that the Ukraine would get all its territory back ended in 2023.

PS- For some reason, Michael Collins comes to mind. You might remember he went to London to negotiate a settlement with the British. He knew the limits of the Irish hand against a much larger power. When he returned home, the IRA disagreed with the settlement and started a civil war.

Keep this mind when you think about Zelensky. I think many Ukrainians don't want to fight anymore, but there will be some that will. It's also easier for him to declare some sort of victory if the U.S. looks to be imposing the settlement on the Ukraine.

 

[squeezer]

In that case Zelensky should settle for security guarantee
of Ukraine from Europe and let Europe worries about its
own security. There will be a time for Zelensky to make nice
and ally with Russia to get even with Europe for making
a fool out of him.

On a more serious note I think some of you have to be naive
to think Trump can just surrender the U.S. to Putin and get away
with it. The POTUS is not all powerful. His every move is watched.

The U.S. strategy in sustaining American hegemony could be
one of splitting Russia's alliance to its now most powerful enemy
economically and militarily, namely China.

Your hatred for Zelensky and Ukraine comes through in every post.

 

[shack]

In that case Zelensky should settle for security guarantee
of Ukraine from Europe and let Europe worries about its
own security. There will be a time for Zelensky to make nice
and ally with Russia to get even with Europe for making
a fool out of him.

Better to capitulate and lick the boots of authoritarian dictators than to fight for your principles, independence and sovereignty? Many people would disagree with you. You must think that the license plate of New Hampshire should be changed from "LIVE FREE OR DIE" to LET BULLIES PUSH YOU AROUND.

How can Europe make a guarantee when the US/trump and Russia/Rasputin are the enemy.

 

[oil&gas]

.........
How can Europe make a guarantee when the US/trump and Russia/Rasputin are the enemy.

When George Bush decided to invade Iraq Jean Chretien and
Jacques Chirac among other U.S. allies declined (thankfully) to
join American invaders' coalition of the willing. Did that make
Canada and France enemies of the U.S.?

If the Trump decides to withdraw military aid to Ukraine it doesn't follow
that Europe will no longer be sheltered in the U.S. "nuclear umbrella" from
nuclear attacks from Russia.

Europe's security will be intact. They will have to kiss Trump's butt
willingly though.

 

[nottyboi]

It’s best to get a peace deal done. The world needs to get Russia back into the fold instead of being isolated the way it is.

Russia is in the fold, just not in the Western fold. Its may be open for business with the west but don't expect it to trust the west in our lifetimes. A good confidence building measure woild be for Germany to repair NS pipelines at their expense. and ask for resumption of gas flows at a fair price +10%

 

[nottyboi]

Better to capitulate and lick the boots of authoritarian dictators than to fight for your principles, independence and sovereignty? Many people would disagree with you. You must think that the license plate of New Hampshire should be changed from "LIVE FREE OR DIE" to LET BULLIES PUSH YOU AROUND.

How can Europe make a guarantee when the US/trump and Russia/Rasputin are the enemy.

Would you prefer to live in Moscow or St. Petersburg under Putin or Bakhmut, under Zelensky?

Bakhmut:

 

[WyattEarp]

GO Zelensky GOOOOOOOO, I hope he tells Trump and Putin to FUCK OFF!!!

Zelensky warns the days of America’s guaranteed support for Europe are over

Yeah, let that be a lesson for the Alberta secession movement. When Trudeau sends in the troops to put down the rebellion, the U.S. won't be there for the Albertans.

 

[nottyboi]

First, I did answer your question. Inexplained why your moniker for Biden was wrong. You introduced the peacec plan challenge, which was the goal post move.
I did offer a suggestion at the end despite this shift in topic.

Second, yes, Russia MUST give up something. That's what a negotiation is. You can call it punishment. I dont. Right now the "negotiation" is to give Russia everything it has taken by force, and only deny it complete ownership of Ukraine.

Regardless of solution, I have no doubts Putin will continue to undermine Ukraine and will figure a way to get Zelinskyy on the 23rd floor of some building or get him polonium tea.
A European Force in Ukraine along a DMZ is what needs to happen. And some phased in program for Russia to rejoin the world if it behaves.

Russia gives up taking all of Urkaine. That presents a risk to it. That is all. It has the capabiliy to take all of Urkaine, Its winning, Ukraine is close to collapse. Trump has a choice here, he can let the war in Ukraine define his presidency or take the political hit and move on with the rest of his program.

 

[Frankfooter]

Your hatred for Zelensky and Ukraine comes through in every post.

Oil$gas always takes the side of the fossil fuel barrons.