TRUMP WINS

[kittykellykat]

Again, they're a tool. We make EVs in Canada. We make EV components in Canada. We do it with very little government interference. We have a parity in competitive advantage under normal circumstances. China is doing it heavily subsidized in an attempt to sway market forces in their favour. This is an appropriate and useful use of tariffs, and if this is all Trump was proposing that would be a good thing too, but he's not.

You pretend you get it in one post but then continue to demonstrate you don't in another. Are you just being a troll or are you actually confused about how people can support something in some situations but not in others?

Sir relax — I used myself as an example of agreement what you said and you didn’t get it and you’re getting mad and calling me a troll . Just block me then? Idk what you are screeching at me about rn

 

[richaceg]

I'm not mad. I literally have no horse in the race. I don't care who won. But your hypocrisy is ridiculous and deserves to be pointed out.

This election had the same level of fraud as the last one: not zero but not enough to have any impact. Enjoy living in your fantasy world.

 

[thirdcup]

Trumps first move will be to pardon himself from all federal charges. Over 1000 people went to jail people lost their jobs. They got disbarred, and yet he will be able to skate away from it.

If he pulls it off, that would impressive. In a certain kind of way.

 

[WyattEarp]

I'm not sure economic hardship is pretty funny, but I guess we all have a different sense is humour.

The economic situation isn't static and tariffs are a tool designed to preserve or restore a competitive advantage and protect existing manufacturing, not bring back that which has been gone for decades. If a product or class of product that used to be manufactured in one place moves, there's a finite amount of time where protectionism can save it.

In Canada and the US, we have access to almost everything required to build cars at competitive prices when compared to everywhere else in the world. But increasingly we're seeing vehicle manufacturing get outsourced to places that have a competitive advantage in labour costs. While that advantage is only labour, a strategic use of tariffs could protect and preserve manufacturing because there is still near parity in competitive advantage. But it you wait until all the manufacturing jobs have left, the workforce has moved on, the factories have been gutted and torn down, and the manufacture of inputs has also relocated, then the tariffs cease to be useful at bringing the jobs here because startup costs become prohibitively expensive. Companies will wait out the tariffs, knowing a shift in political climate will almost certainly happen faster than the manufacturing capacity can be restored, and once these happens the balance to competitive advantage is lost and it become cheaper to shut it all down again.

Remember when Trump put tariffs on Canadian steel and as a result almost everything manufactured in the US that involved steel got more expensive? He did it claiming he was going to protect US steel manufacturing, but it turns out US steel couldn't meet production demands. They didn't really ramp up production either, because while they have a competitive advantage for existing demand, expansion costs were prohibitive. And so as a result he eventually carved out a bunch of exemptions, rendering the entire exercise mostly moot, but only after damage to both our economies had been done. It didn't reduce inflation, make things made of steel cheaper, protect manufacturing, or bring jobs back. It drove up prices (which still haven't come back down fully) and increased inflation while saving no jobs and creating no extra.

In fact, the tariffs implemented by Trump during his last presidency are estimated to have resulted in a net loss of 160,000 jobs, and because portions of it impacted critical industries that needed to be preserved (ie the farming industry as a result of his soybean tariff), it cost taxpayers a fortune in subsidies.

The reality of free trade and competitive advantage is complex and there's a lot of nuance. It's not that tariffs are bad, it's that a guy who clearly doesn't understand them and has a history of implementing them to the detriment of the economy is saying he's going to use blanket tariffs to restore and punish, rather than to protect, and that's not how tariffs work.

He's selling a strong economy via tariffs but that's not reality. He's actually touting a trade war while claiming it's going to reduce inflation and bring back jobs, and that has never been the goal or result of any trade war.

So no, it's not that tariffs used to be good but now they're bad. It's about acknowledging that tariffs are a tool and like any tool, it can be used wisely or poorly, and both Trump's words and past actions make it clear this is going to be the latter.

If you listen to the words between the lines, the stuff most of the media is ignoring while they try to find ways to attack him, you will quickly realize tariffs are a threat, a policy tool, a negotiating tool to try to level unfair trade practices. There's not going to be tariffs on every U.S. import. It will be selective responses to selective countries.

The WTO has no teeth. When economists preach free trade, it's theoretical. The world has never had free trade. Countries will always be seeking advantages through trade......sometimes unfairly. Countries will also respond to the political pressure. Some will lean on exports to stimulate their economies at the expense of their trading partners.

I hear Canadians complain about the high cost of dairy products when they know New England imports could likely bring the prices down. The Chinese are dealing with their postponed economic reckoning and are trying to promote further exports on top of their already historically high exports. They are trying to cope with high youth unemployment.

Some of us remember the 1980s when it looked like Japan was literally going to wipe out the U.S. auto industry. The U.S. pressured Japan to limit exports and it led to Japanese car manufacturers building plants in the U.S. The U.S. has also had a 25% tariff on light trucks since 1964. (I believe there was a Democrat in the White House for those scoring at home.)

People scream about the tariffs. For some reason (politics?), they're fine with the subsidy war now occurring on semiconductors. Large subsidies are the sibling of tariffs. One might prefer the carrot approach of subsidies, but this is still a cost being transferred to the U.S. taxpayer.

Subsidies, import quotas and tariffs have been around since the dawn of civilization and each is a valid policy tool. What we are seeing over both the Trump and Biden Administrations is the acceptance of a U.S. industrial policy. Chronic trade imbalances and economic threats that impact our defense (semiconductors) has moved the U.S. in this direction.

 

[Anbarandy]

When one side loses they:

 

[thirdcup]

Trump living the monicker "women beater"... literally.

...AND metaphorically. It's a twofer.

 

[Anbarandy]

When one candidate loses:

 

[Anbarandy]

Honestly, I'm loving their irrational over reactions. It's really satisfying watching them wallow in defeat.

Text book definitions of over reaction:

 

[Anbarandy]

So you're mad too? The MAGA movement makes no apologies. We all know that election was shady as fuck. Just because the evidence was eliminated doesn't mean there wasn't any. The last election was stolen whether you like it or not. This time it was 'too big to rig' and just look, the results speak for themselves. Enjoy the next 4 years, you're in for a treat!

When MAGA loses::

 

[WyattEarp]

Minus the "read between the lines" part (which then becomes a question of how much you think a politician is going to do what they say and how much if hyperbole), that's exactly what I said. So we're in complete agreement. Thanks for your support.

If you agree things will work themselves out, sure. But please stop with the condescending........thanks......

I can't imagine trying to read Trump's mind though. I can barely follow the run on sentences he actually says let alone have any idea what's between the lines.

If you feel that you understood Biden and Harris' trade and industrial policies, good for you. Reading your stuff, I can see you go deeper than most of the TERB parrots. What's apparent is some here will champion Bernie Sanders. However, they don't have the mental dexterity to realize Bernie was the original America First guy. If Bernie was advocating tariffs, they would be cheering him on full throttle.

I would point out, though, that some history books might have interesting insight into the dangers of thinking a politician will never do, or be able to do, the things they've outright said they're going to do. Granted, politicians rarely do keep all their promises, and when they do they rarely do exactly what they said. But there's always a danger that they meant exactly what they said and follow through with it completely.

Yes, no disagreement.

 

[JohnLarue]

I'm betting he does nothing until he has done his thing with China, Gaza, Ukraine, Iran, Immigration, tax cuts, getting a cabinet in place, other domestic issues. So that will be after our election.

We are going to be low on the list, and there will be pushback in Congress. I'm betting no tariffs on Canada. He will try to make some noise but once again it will end up to be little. It probably won't matter who is in.

THE USMCA runs until 2026, it will be opened up for renegociation in 2026

asumming Jan 1, 2026 we need to have an election well before the timeline the pension seeking blood sucking liberal / NDP MP weasels want
we need a spring 2025 election.

there will be tariffs for Canada. >>> Dairy products . Wisconson Dairy farmers want access to Canadian Markes, he carried Wisconson

 

[JohnLarue]

Quite the projection you like to make idiot. I stand by what I said. Economic warfare against China whether you like it or not kiddo.

run away
I am furious about China interference in our election so no sympathy for China mis-information spreaders
evil, traitorous and disgraceful

 

[kittykellykat]

When MAGA loses::

View attachment 376464
View attachment 376466
View attachment 376467

Did you make this collage

 

[Anbarandy]

They didn't lose, it was stolen. 73% of the population recognizes that fact

This is what happens when MAGA lies:

 

[Anbarandy]

When the entire US justice system conspires against you expecting the truth to come out is futile.

This is what happens when MAGA lies:

 

[kittykellykat]

Bruh

 

[JohnLarue]

It would be interesting to compare who voted and their method of voting in 2020 versus 2024.

I am pretty confident some US department looked into the trends and likely identified some strange anomaly's
deltas of 17 million and 19 million votes are huge

ballot box stuffing ? the were rumors of this occurring in Chicago in the 1960s election -apparently a lot of dead people crawled out of their graves to cast their vote

2020 ? a huge political hot potato . one would need some real rock hard evidence i.e. a confessions from multiple people to open that can of worms publicly after Biden was sworn in
we will likely never know for sure and doubts will persist - aka who killed JFK ?

my guess is the department responsible for elections identified anomalies and tightened up vote counting procedures to minimize the risks of reoccurrence

I personally view tampering with the federal vote count as treasonous and should carry a life sentence in prison penalty
the integrity of elections is that important

 

[richaceg]

"boo-hoo-hoo, the whole justice system conspires against me, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh"

Talk about futility!

2016

2024

 

[richaceg]

 

[Mod99]

@Anbarandy and @jimidean2011 - take your pissing match offline.

Fucking children, both of you.