Ashley Madison

The challenges of re-opening in this environment

doggystyle99

Well-known member
May 23, 2010
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You can get the virus from anywhere. Only a fool would say he got it from seeing an escort. If you touch your eyes mouth etc after touching a contaminated surface you can get it that way as an example. Natural selection will run its course eventually.
I agree with your thinking, to better explain perhaps what you're saying is - the virus has a known 7-14 day incubation period. While the likelyhood of catching a virus is the highest percentage from someone you have been intimate with (i.e. a SP) it is not conclusive as many will imply or flat out suggest.

A difficult to argue comparable would be if you saw an escort in the last 14 days but also have a roommate/live together family member and you both test positive. Did the roommate/family member give it to you, sharing a home? Did you catch it somewhere, perhaps the SP and give it to your roommate/family member? We can all quickly jump to the 'likely scenario', myself included - I write this post to simply identify there is no conclusive proof of who/where you caught this virus from unless you are extremely self quarantined other than a select encounter with someone else, SP or otherwise.

Food for thought.
Agreed.

Too many variables to know for sure where you catch it if you do.
There is already apps for use in regards to contact tracing. It’s really not that hard to narrow it down on who the actual spreader of the virus is once the app is used.
There is also a Canadian company Toronto based that is being used for tracing by hospitals, it’s one of the leaders in the industry it’s called bluedot.
 

jetwolf

Active member
Jul 26, 2008
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Comparing the total number of motor vehicle accident deaths VS the number of people under 65 years of age deaths due to Covid-19 is attempting to minimize the effects of the virus.
Even if you are attempting to compare the total number of motor vehicle accident deaths VS the total number of deaths from Covid-19 it's still not a good comparison but you took it one step further as you want to downplay the effects of the Coronavirus. I didn't even verify the number of motor vehicle accidents you posted to be correct or not but compared to the Coronavirus as of today 121 deaths/Million VS 71 deaths/Million it is still far below the threat of the virus and we're only 2 months in where the number of accidents is for a full year.
I was explicit about the fact that I was comparing the risk level applicable to the "under 65" segment of the population only. I am well aware that if we compared the "over 65" segment, the risk of covid-19 would be much higher. I think it's useful to consider the risks to the two segments separately (and clearly, so does the author of the paper I cited, since he makes that distinction throughout the paper), because in a case like this where the level of risk to different segments of the population is so highly stratified, it makes sense to target public health measures towards higher-risk segments in the medium / longer term.

I also did account for the fact that I was dealing with different time intervals. I took the 6/mil "covid under-65 to date" figure and extrapolated it to 60/mil "covid under-65 per year" (which is a generous extrapolation since (a) I allowed for a 10x increase even though we are already ~2 months (one sixth of the way) into a year, and (b) covid-19 is believed to have peaked or be in the process of peaking in Canada, suggesting that death rates for most of the remainder of the year will actually be lower than they have been for the past 2 months). It is this 60/mil figure that I then compared to 71/mil "motor vehicle accidents under-65 per year", and observed that they are in the same ballpark.

I am not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here. I cited numbers from science papers and government sources, and made an attempt at an honest, realistic risk analysis, describing my reasoning in detail.

As for the link you provide, the author Levitt claims "regardless of government interventions there is only a 2 week exponential growth of cases" and that simply is not true, neither in the countries that placed shutdown on businesses late or in countries that have kept businesses open. We know full well the we would be in a far worse situation if countries had kept their borders, travel and businesses open as usual.

Here is a list of the exponential growth start and finish date for some countries.
Spain---March 1 - March 26
Italy----February 21 - March 21
USA----March 1 - April 4
UK------March 2 - April 10
Russia--March 15 - ???
Brazil---March 10 - ???
The exponential growth in these countries is at least 3.5 weeks and in Russia and Brazil it's still ongoing for 8 weeks.
Citations for these claims would be appreciated.
 

jetwolf

Active member
Jul 26, 2008
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A potentially interesting data point from a jurisdiction where sex work is legal and regulated: the Netherlands is planning to reopen its sex clubs on September 1 (source).
 

doggystyle99

Well-known member
May 23, 2010
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I was explicit about the fact that I was comparing the risk level applicable to the "under 65" segment of the population only. I am well aware that if we compared the "over 65" segment, the risk of covid-19 would be much higher. I think it's useful to consider the risks to the two segments separately (and clearly, so does the author of the paper I cited, since he makes that distinction throughout the paper), because in a case like this where the level of risk to different segments of the population is so highly stratified, it makes sense to target public health measures towards higher-risk segments in the medium / longer term.

I also did account for the fact that I was dealing with different time intervals. I took the 6/mil "covid under-65 to date" figure and extrapolated it to 60/mil "covid under-65 per year" (which is a generous extrapolation since (a) I allowed for a 10x increase even though we are already ~2 months (one sixth of the way) into a year, and (b) covid-19 is believed to have peaked or be in the process of peaking in Canada, suggesting that death rates for most of the remainder of the year will actually be lower than they have been for the past 2 months). It is this 60/mil figure that I then compared to 71/mil "motor vehicle accidents under-65 per year", and observed that they are in the same ballpark.

I am not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here. I cited numbers from science papers and government sources, and made an attempt at an honest, realistic risk analysis, describing my reasoning in detail.

Citations for these claims would be appreciated.
To compare the:
Total number of fatalities from motor vehicle accidents
VS
Limited (under 65 years of age) number of deaths from Covid-19

Is not a rational comparison regardless of what you think. You or the author could have compared it to the flu numbers to understand the threat of the Coronavirus but we all know what happened to that ship.

The fact that the author of the video claims "regardless of government interventions there is only a 2 week exponential growth of cases" which is not true and you simply didn't even bother to verify these facts before posting them explains a whole lot more. I am willing to bet those motor vehicle accident numbers were probably cherry picked as well by the author.

There numbers are there for everyone to see in the daily stats provided.
 

bebe

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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Your are a silly scaremonger! No client or SW is going to admit to taking part in this hobby. We would simply say that we go grocery shopping once a week and probably got infected there :doh::.
+1, anyone who would say otherwise needs not to hobby at this point in time.

If you can’t accept the risk keep your dick in your pants until their is a vaccine, provided they can find one
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I understand that Apple and Google are working on a Bluetooth proximity app that is firewalled off from identifying individuals or serving the data to govt.

Details here. https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/10/...irus-covid-19-contact-tracing-app-details-use
Yes, this is basically the system I was referring to. The core idea (anonymous key handoff and follow up) seems to be what most people are converging on, but the details about the app and what tech (bluetooth? something else?) seems a bit up in the air.
 

Saskatchewan

Active member
Jan 20, 2010
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My Meandering Thoughts

Think the girl needs to decide for herself (a gut feeling) if she wants to see the client when he comes in OR based on his appearance through the peep hole.

Going in the guy needs to know if he gets turned away for any reason there would be no compensation for "wasted" time, gas, 407 etc.

For her safety she will need to "discriminate" based on age, race, general appearance (if the guy looks or is clearly ill), etc. The new normal will certainly make some guys feel singled out. The new normal will take time to adjust too.

Hope TDL or Mirage lead the way as someone needs to be first, once one agency reopens the rest will follow. There will never be ideal time to reopen unless a vaccine can be found, tested and administered in the next few months which won't happen.
True, agreed fully. However, re-opening before June 1st would seem risky. The more legit businesses given the green light to re-open (ie, gardening stores) the easier the argument for agencies to re-open.

There is no sure way to prevent infection once an agency re-opens. However, agencies and escorts can still take every reasonable precaution.... Clients should wear at least a mask and gloves throughout the session.
Hahahahahaha, if this is intended to be a joke, it was funny. No one in their right mind is going to wear a mask during a session.

You have got to be kidding,
What would be the use of seeing an escort, you may as well hump a rubber doll.
Mask, gloves, your not going to your local grocery store.

I will either not go at all or just take the risk.
None of what you mentioned is any guarantee you won't get infected anyway.
Exactly! I think he was joking though, or he thinks COVID is Ebola or something.

I don’t even know what day it is anymore. It takes me a week to leave my house and go to the post office, inside a drug store. I’m so sick of this shit.

Philip
Yeah, well, we're all hurting bud. One of the things that will make us hurt less is when Toronto Passions re-opens. This thread is designed to figure out if an agency re-opens, whether it's going to be business as usual like it was before, or if safety measures need to be taken. The virus is out there, and it's not going anywhere - not even when the lock down officially ends.

If I was an agency owner, I would reopen after the May long weekend. Let the Government reopen some other businesses in the meantime. Next week the agencies could start to take pre-bookings to see which girls want to work and what the demand will be like for the following week.

I would ask each girl if she wants to enforce her own rules such as not seeing clients above a certain age, race, if she has stopped providing all oral services, ask if she wants to limit the number of clients she wants to see during her shift etc. I think the SP needs to be the one who decides is she wants to see the client when he arrives at the door. She should have the freedom to decline without blowback and the agency is not on the hook to compensate the guy for "wasted" time, gas, parking, 407. Odds are you lied about your age, race, general health to get a booking so the client should have thought twice about trying to bypass the new screening process.

Obviously showering before and after, not just for the men but the girls needs to be strictly enforced. Agencies need to give the girls at least 30 mins between clients. No more of this 15 minute bull shit between clients (this comment is not focused at TP, its just a general comment).

Agencies need to step it up in terms of fresh/clean/new bed linen, pillows and pillow cases. Not sure what can be done at the hotels.

The SP needs to have the flexibility to cancel her shift last minute if she feels unwell without the agency blasting her or feeling pressured to work.
All of which, excellent ideas and a good road map for agencies.

I'm not going to stop living because there's a virus going around with a fraction of a percent in the mortality department. The quality of life is everything to me. Everyone knows who is at risk, so protect yourselves and take some fucking responsibility for your lives. If you're afraid or have a legitimate conditions that make you a target for the virus, stay the fuck home- that way you'll not run into me.
I feel the same way.

Of course we don't want to be reckless with our health, nor with the health of others. But let's also be realistic about the magnitude of the risks we are talking about.

When covid-19 first hit the Western world in March, we knew fairly little about it, and projections of the damage it would do varied widely, with the pessimistic ones skewing towards the apocalyptic (think "millions or tens of millions of deaths in the U.S. alone"). The public health measures that were deployed at the time were designed to protect even against such worst-case scenarios.

As time passes, we are building a more and more accurate picture of how fatal this disease is, and it's increasingly evident that the reality falls far short of the apocalyptic predictions.

According to this Stanford study published today, to date covid-19 has killed 6 out of every million Canadians under the age of 65.

To put that number into perspective, motor vehicle accidents kill 71 out of every million Canadians per year (source). To be sure, covid-19 has not yet been with us for a year, but even if we assume that by the time it has (~March 2021), it will have killed 10x the number it has so far (which is unlikely given that it appears to have peaked already or be in the process of peaking), that's still 60 deaths per million Canadians under 65 per year, comparable to motor vehicle accidents.

Granted, the risk to Canadians over 65 is considerably higher (though still far short of the worst-case estimates). However, this is a general concern affecting the reopening of all sectors of the economy (such as restaurants), and it can be addressed by keeping in place public health measures such as physical distancing and wearing PPE for interactions involving those over 65.
Exactly. The risk of mortality from COVID seems exaggerated. There is no way to work out exactly what the mortality rate is because we don't know how many people were/are infected with COVID, we only know the number of diagnosed cases and the number deaths. But we are missing the denominator. But even with the numbers we already have, as you mentioned, risk of mortality seems very low if you're less than 65.

The OP has gotta answer few questions honestly to himself:

What if a girl or a client dies because the agency was open? (teenagers and people in their 20's, 30's have also died, anyone can die or get severely ill).
Can't this argument not be made against any business? For instance, Loblaws is open. One of their check out girls works for them, a regular shift. A customer passes COVID onto her and she dies! OMG!

I guess Loblaws and other supermarkets should not conduct business or stay open to minimize the risk of this scenario eventuating.

If you can’t accept the risk keep your dick in your pants until their is a vaccine, provided they can find one
Agreed.
 

surferboy

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Jan 7, 2014
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Can't this argument not be made against any business? For instance, Loblaws is open. One of their check out girls works for them, a regular shift. A customer passes COVID onto her and she dies! OMG!

I guess Loblaws and other supermarkets should not conduct business or stay open to minimize the risk of this scenario eventuating.



Agreed.

Sask you can't compare being a cashier to being an escort & getting the nasty on with a stranger ffs! Do you kiss, go down or get a bj from your cashier lol. Besides that the Weston's could fend off 1000's of lawsuits if they had to & not have any effect on their bottom line, one wrongful death suit would be the end of most agencies & a whole lot of legislation for the industry. An employee died on the job 20+ years ago in my fathers business & it kept him up many of nights before it was all over.

The guys that are 60+ in good shape & think their invincible should have a read about this doc. Healthy, wealthy & educated as one of the silver fox's stated on here could leave you out of breath, ventilated & dying & thinking to yourself holy fack maybe I'm not invincible...

https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/scariest...19-warns-virus-doesn-t-discriminate-1.4912551
 

kstanb

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Apr 25, 2008
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my advice to Top drawers would be to:

- wait a few more weeks. wait until business start to open

- test the waters, maybe advertise via newsletter, if you have one, to your regulars. See how things go in a more controlled environment

- only after that; open to the public
 

bebe

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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Sask you can't compare being a cashier to being an escort & getting the nasty on with a stranger ffs! Do you kiss, go down or get a bj from your cashier lol. Besides that the Weston's could fend off 1000's of lawsuits if they had to & not have any effect on their bottom line, one wrongful death suit would be the end of most agencies & a whole lot of legislation for the industry. An employee died on the job 20+ years ago in my fathers business & it kept him up many of nights before it was all over.

The guys that are 60+ in good shape & think their invincible should have a read about this doc. Healthy, wealthy & educated as one of the silver fox's stated on here could leave you out of breath, ventilated & dying & thinking to yourself holy fack maybe I'm not invincible...

https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/scariest...19-warns-virus-doesn-t-discriminate-1.4912551
According to you we should all assume the fetal position, suck our thumbs, stop living until a vaccine is found. They may never find one. Then what ???

In a week the big automakers will be back in business. Just watch the numbers spikes up.
 

Leslielake

Well-known member
Nov 7, 2019
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People who are thinking with their dicks and taking this lightly and yelling at others who are warning people to be careful really need to shut up. Stop comparing cashiers and auto business with sex industry. Are you really that stupid? This is where the leadership of Don and other agency owners comes in handy, they have to stop dickheads from visiting them. Health officials are screaming and stressing to maintain physical distancing but we have some morons here who want to get laid in the middle of a pandemic. If one dickhead infects or gets infected - it can kill anybody (be it a girl or a man). If one girl dies, only one - the agency will be finished or the owner will find himself in burning hot water. So all you wannabe health scientists need to zip it up and wait for the dust to settle down (it might take a long time). The virus is not going anywhere even if the lockdown ends tomorrow. The world has changed - this is a new normal, no matter how much you deny. The idea of getting intimate with lots of men throughout the day is a really scary thing to think now for both parties (client and a girl).

Any essential business can operate with physical distancing but its just not possible to do that in this industry. I, personally, will never be comfortable now. There will always be doubts in girl’s and my head. The experience will not just be the same.

To my dickheads who want agencies to open: can you enlighten us how the session will now proceed in post Covid times?
 

harpoonspecter

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Dec 4, 2007
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There is no way to eliminate the risk. It's up to the individual to asses the risk for themselves and act accordingly. It's really no different from normal in that sense. If you think Covid is as dangerous as the media tells you then you have no way to operate such a business "safely." If you thinks its overblown and that the fact that the real number of infected is likely ten times the number counted (making the mortality rate comparable to a flu) then you go ahead and work/hobby.

I don't know what I would do if I ran an agency, but I probably wouldn't open for another month at least.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
People who are thinking with their dicks and taking this lightly and yelling at others who are warning people to be careful really need to shut up.

Are you really that stupid?
That's gotta be the ultimate example of a rhetorical question.
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
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west gta
Unless you guys have some sort of GILF fetish it will be business as usual

More than 80% of cases occurred in nursing homes Canada wide (with highest percentages in ON + PQ)
By far the vast majority of those requiring hospitalization or death were also crypt keepers

The majority of deaths in ON are all 80+ (according to the SUN Friday May 8 less than 200 people died in ON who were under 80 years old)
https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ontario-deaths-from-covid-19-concentrated-in-those-above-80

So yeah its a non issue
(UNLESS you have some pre-existing health concerns, but then you really should not be in this industry in the first place)
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
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west gta
b2oreal - I disagree. Firstly, I doubt ANYONE that gets Covid is going to be keen enough to share their extracurricular activities with medical officials, I know I wouldn't..
This is why we see such random claims of "community" transmission
People who do not answer or answer incorrectly

Its very obvious there is no real transmission from places like grocery stores despite the paranoia some feel
(multiple grocery and fast food outlets have reported cases and yet 0 outbreaks happened)
 

Thackeray

Active member
Jun 13, 2019
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Can’t believe no one thought of the obvious solution - only hire 19 year old girls who have never been kissed.

I mean there’ll be one session a year, but you can charge $20,000...
 

Thackeray

Active member
Jun 13, 2019
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Ok seriously

If the ladies and agencies enforced wearing a mask like they enforce showering, it would go a long way.

Normal sessions and pricing, but customers must wear mask at all times and woman can only remove mask to blow guys.

There - that’s your model. You’re welcome. :)
 

jetwolf

Active member
Jul 26, 2008
286
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A potentially interesting data point from a jurisdiction where sex work is legal and regulated: the Netherlands is planning to reopen its sex clubs on September 1 (source).
Another data point: in New Zealand, where sex work is fully decriminalized, the government is allowing it to resume at "Alert Level 2", which began today (source).
 

bebe

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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Another data point: in New Zealand, where sex work is fully decriminalized, the government is allowing it to resume at "Alert Level 2", which began today (source).
Is Alert Level 2, the same as our Phase 2 reopening for Ontario?

Yes, I am too lazy to check for myself, been a long day at work.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts