The challenges of re-opening in this environment

[Knuckle Ball]

I doubt they will be wearing anything more then masks and gloves. Both of which I can use. Except for the blow job. Unless I cut a hole in the mask.

Would that be like a glory hole? LOL

LOL...I was actually thinking that glory holes may become a popular option in the industry post cv19. SP’s could just buy a big sheet of plexiglass like they have in the grocery store line, cut a hole in it, and bam: Glory Hole!

It wouldn’t be my cup of tea...but...yet...I find myself thinking about this more often than some might consider normal...so who knows? Anything can happen.

 

[Jasmine Raine]

LOL...I was actually thinking that glory holes may become a popular option in the industry post cv19. SP’s could just buy a big sheet of plexiglass like they have in the grocery store line, cut a hole in it, and bam: Glory Hole!

It wouldn’t be my cup of tea...but...yet...I find myself thinking about this more often than some might consider normal...so who knows? Anything can happen.

That's it. I'm making a plexiglass cube with a hole in it! LOL

 

[likwid]

At the end of the day you’re going to be in a contained box (hotel/condo) where covid19 can be transmitted through breathing recycled air. Social distancing is the only effective measure but it’s obviously not sustainable over a long period of time. I cant see a situation where a client will walk into an incall, admit he's been abroad and then leave, he will likely just lie.


Some of you may want to see this article when assessing your risks:

http://https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-prisons-testing-in/in-four-u-s-state-prisons-nearly-3300-inmates-test-positive-for-coronavirus-96-without-symptoms-idUSKCN2270RX

 

[Jasmine Raine]

At the end of the day you’re going to be in a contained box (hotel/condo) where covid19 can be transmitted through breathing recycled air. Social distancing is the only effective measure but it’s obviously not sustainable over a long period of time. I cant see a situation where a client will walk into an incall, admit he's been abroad and then leave, he will likely just lie.


Some of you may want to see this article when assessing your risks:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-prisons-testing-in/in-four-u-s-state-prisons-nearly-3300-inmates-test-positive-for-coronavirus-96-without-symptoms-idUSKCN2270RX

You added an extra http:// in your link so it doesn't work.

The one in my quote does.

 

[John Wick]

That's it. I'm making a plexiglass cube with a hole in it! LOL

Meh. It's already been done. Just search up the Catholic Pope-mobile.

 

[doggystyle99]

Hmmmmm...let’s see:
1. If refraining from visiting escorts means that you have somehow “stopped living” then you have a serious sex addiction and should seek professional help;

2. Earlier in this thread I suggested a multitude of ideas to mitigate the risk of visiting an escort but you don’t want to do that either;

3. I can take responsibility for my own social distancing but there is a limit to what I can do in that regard and if you insist on spreading the virus around the community it increases the risk to everybody, including me;

4. Perhaps you don’t think the virus is a big deal but most of us do. For you to take the stance that it’s just tough shit if you give cv19 to someone else and kill them because you want to fuck an escort is narcissistic and criminal.

What's important to understand that these people who are promoting opening businesses NOW for the very high majority are doing so based on their own selfish wants or greed.
There was a poster who posted that he thinks places with the elderly should practice strict quarantines as he would like to get back to seeing SP's yet he is an elderly person himself. Their concern and ideas are more about their selfish and personal wants rather than the protection of communities, others or society as a whole.

 

[Yyzparry]

Don,

First, I want to say thanks to you for starting this forum and having an open dialogue about the risks and what steps can be taken to mitigate those risks given the evolving circumstances. I would like to add to the three processes that you've outlined and provide some perspectives of my own. Let me first say that I am by no means in the medical profession. However, throughout all of this, I have made and acted on some of my own observations - ones which might have some shared benefits.

Observation #1 Greater Emphasis on Hygiene
We have all been told that the most effective way to mitigate COVID risk is to wash your hands. This is good, practical advice. But for this hobby, it needs to be extended to full and complete bathing. Everyone needs to wash everything and do so to each other's mutual satisfaction and safety. I dare say that means spending considerable more time in showers and with far greater soap and hot water. But don't stop there. My morning routine now includes gargling with mouth wash or salt water. Why? because we know that the onset to contracting the virus in your respiratory system is that virus cells have been observed collecting both in your throat and sinus areas. Gargling (not just rinsing) is just one subjective, preventative way that may subject virus cells to the equivalent of "soap" in a safe and practical way. Point: body cleanliness as well as mouth cleanliness are just practical, common sense steps to take. I also am aware first hand from frontline medical care workers (my neighbour is an urgent care physician) that part of their routine from working and returning to an environment outside of work is (you guessed it) frequent and long showers. No longer is showering a once a day proposition. And in the COVID world, that would seem to make good sense. Just like washing your hand often and frequently. I know...Captain Obvious...but the point is applying this to the hobby we know and love. And for an excellent agency like yours Don, I think it may mean making these sorts of accomodations - ensuring showers are taken, soap is applied everywhere and oral hygiene is also taken very seriously. That again is not a cure - its a mitigative measure to a risk that we are all exposed to and must manage - whether inside or outside this hobby.

Observation #2
My upbringing has included some of the Scandinavian customs which include sauna and steam. Now before people go off and rip me a new one, I am by no means suggesting sauna and steam is a cure for COVID. Its definitely not. You cannot ingest hot air or hot water at a temperature that can kill a COVID cell safely. My understanding is that COVID cells "die" when placed in an environment where the temperature is 56 degrees celsius and for a duration of 15 mins. But that does not mean sauna and steam have no mitigative properties. Sauna and steam showers are (again in my experience) ones that can safely reach temperatures that are proximating to or exceeding 56 C. Example: I set my steam shower to 49 C. My wood burning sauna at my cottage regularly reaches well past 56C and closer to 80 C. I find steam generated from these devices helps clear nasal and sinus passages. And in some ways, I find steam to be somewhat like "washing your hands" for your schnoze!! And of course everyone does not have access to a steam shower or sauna, but one might consider using a kettle and breathing in steam from boiling water (as a kid, I vividly remember flu season always for me involved putting a paper bag over a kettle and cutting a corner hole off the bag and breathing in steam). My theory here is again, if "washing your hands" is the best strategy, then having hotter temperatures and water to rinse sinuses and the respiratory passages is an easy practicable way that might help reduce risk. Its by no means a solution - and indeed it may not have any medicinal value - but it cannot hurt. Its been done for centuries. Finns and Swedes sauna every day as part of their hygiene management. So, can we learn from this and apply any of those lessons here. So, to that end, having an appointment start with both consenting adults breathing steam over a kettle, and then retiring to the shower and continuing their cleanse just seems like an easy and practicable approach. Repeating that process at the end also seems to apply the theory of washing oneself often and following any risk of exposure to a new environment, also seems to be consistent with a risk mitigation strategy.

Sorry for being so long-winded, but just wanted to throw these ideas into this discussion.

 

[Careyguy]

No matter how much you wash or clean if you’re going to have sex with someone that has COVID you will get it too assuming you’re not already immune.

 

[likwid]

Don,

First, I want to say thanks to you for starting this forum and having an open dialogue about the risks and what steps can be taken to mitigate those risks given the evolving circumstances. I would like to add to the three processes that you've outlined and provide some perspectives of my own. Let me first say that I am by no means in the medical profession. However, throughout all of this, I have made and acted on some of my own observations - ones which might have some shared benefits.

Observation #1 Greater Emphasis on Hygiene
We have all been told that the most effective way to mitigate COVID risk is to wash your hands. This is good, practical advice. But for this hobby, it needs to be extended to full and complete bathing. Everyone needs to wash everything and do so to each other's mutual satisfaction and safety. I dare say that means spending considerable more time in showers and with far greater soap and hot water. But don't stop there. My morning routine now includes gargling with mouth wash or salt water. Why? because we know that the onset to contracting the virus in your respiratory system is that virus cells have been observed collecting both in your throat and sinus areas. Gargling (not just rinsing) is just one subjective, preventative way that may subject virus cells to the equivalent of "soap" in a safe and practical way. Point: body cleanliness as well as mouth cleanliness are just practical, common sense steps to take. I also am aware first hand from frontline medical care workers (my neighbour is an urgent care physician) that part of their routine from working and returning to an environment outside of work is (you guessed it) frequent and long showers. No longer is showering a once a day proposition. And in the COVID world, that would seem to make good sense. Just like washing your hand often and frequently. I know...Captain Obvious...but the point is applying this to the hobby we know and love. And for an excellent agency like yours Don, I think it may mean making these sorts of accomodations - ensuring showers are taken, soap is applied everywhere and oral hygiene is also taken very seriously. That again is not a cure - its a mitigative measure to a risk that we are all exposed to and must manage - whether inside or outside this hobby.

Observation #2
My upbringing has included some of the Scandinavian customs which include sauna and steam. Now before people go off and rip me a new one, I am by no means suggesting sauna and steam is a cure for COVID. Its definitely not. You cannot ingest hot air or hot water at a temperature that can kill a COVID cell safely. My understanding is that COVID cells "die" when placed in an environment where the temperature is 56 degrees celsius and for a duration of 15 mins. But that does not mean sauna and steam have no mitigative properties. Sauna and steam showers are (again in my experience) ones that can safely reach temperatures that are proximating to or exceeding 56 C. Example: I set my steam shower to 49 C. My wood burning sauna at my cottage regularly reaches well past 56C and closer to 80 C. I find steam generated from these devices helps clear nasal and sinus passages. And in some ways, I find steam to be somewhat like "washing your hands" for your schnoze!! And of course everyone does not have access to a steam shower or sauna, but one might consider using a kettle and breathing in steam from boiling water (as a kid, I vividly remember flu season always for me involved putting a paper bag over a kettle and cutting a corner hole off the bag and breathing in steam). My theory here is again, if "washing your hands" is the best strategy, then having hotter temperatures and water to rinse sinuses and the respiratory passages is an easy practicable way that might help reduce risk. Its by no means a solution - and indeed it may not have any medicinal value - but it cannot hurt. Its been done for centuries. Finns and Swedes sauna every day as part of their hygiene management. So, can we learn from this and apply any of those lessons here. So, to that end, having an appointment start with both consenting adults breathing steam over a kettle, and then retiring to the shower and continuing their cleanse just seems like an easy and practicable approach. Repeating that process at the end also seems to apply the theory of washing oneself often and following any risk of exposure to a new environment, also seems to be consistent with a risk mitigation strategy.

Sorry for being so long-winded, but just wanted to throw these ideas into this discussion.

A virus infects your own cells, so there is no method for killing just the COVID cells unless you want to incinerate yourself. Your antibodies are your only hope.

Also thanks JR

 

[anon1]

 

[Yyzparry]

Careyguy,

While it may be as binary as you suggest, the virus is not a sexually transmitted disease. Any person who has COVID and who then knowingly or unknowingly interacts with someone, does not mean, with perfect certainty, that the non-infected person gets the virus. The steps that the non-infected person takes to mitigate the onset of the virus matters most. Onset of the virus is not immediate. That's why things like PPE and washing and hygiene are so important - especially for frontline workers. Clearly, "PPE" in this hobby is a challenge and hence why I put alot of emphasis on the only real thing we can control - personal hygiene and cleanliness.

 

[Knuckle Ball]

lmao!

 

[jetwolf]

Some of you may want to see this article when assessing your risks:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-prisons-testing-in/in-four-u-s-state-prisons-nearly-3300-inmates-test-positive-for-coronavirus-96-without-symptoms-idUSKCN2270RX

People often bring up the fact that there are many asymptomatic cases as evidence of increased danger due to silent spreading.

However, it is at the same time evidence of decreased danger due to a lower lethality. 96% of cases being asymptomatic means that even if you contract the disease, 96% of the time you will not even get sick (in the sense of experiencing any symptoms).

 

[doggystyle99]

Of course we don't want to be reckless with our health, nor with the health of others. But let's also be realistic about the magnitude of the risks we are talking about.

When covid-19 first hit the Western world in March, we knew fairly little about it, and projections of the damage it would do varied widely, with the pessimistic ones skewing towards the apocalyptic (think "millions or tens of millions of deaths in the U.S. alone"). The public health measures that were deployed at the time were designed to protect even against such worst-case scenarios.

As time passes, we are building a more and more accurate picture of how fatal this disease is, and it's increasingly evident that the reality falls far short of the apocalyptic predictions.

According to this Stanford study published today, to date covid-19 has killed 6 out of every million Canadians under the age of 65.

To put that number into perspective, motor vehicle accidents kill 71 out of every million Canadians per year (source). To be sure, covid-19 has not yet been with us for a year, but even if we assume that by the time it has (~March 2021), it will have killed 10x the number it has so far (which is unlikely given that it appears to have peaked already or be in the process of peaking), that's still 60 deaths per million Canadians under 65 per year, comparable to motor vehicle accidents.

Granted, the risk to Canadians over 65 is considerably higher (though still far short of the worst-case estimates). However, this is a general concern affecting the reopening of all sectors of the economy (such as restaurants), and it can be addressed by keeping in place public health measures such as physical distancing and wearing PPE for interactions involving those over 65.

When people start comparing Covid-19 to things like the flu or in your case motor vehicle accidents its an attempt at trying to minimize the effects of the Coronavirus. You took it even one step further out of context and compared the number of deaths from Covid-19 of people under 65 years of age VS the total numbers of motor vehicle accidents 71deaths/Mln. It's a ridiculous comparison to say the least. To date Covid-19 has a 117deaths/Mln and we're only over two months in.

Some of the projections of the virus were based on doing absolutely nothing at all in the fight against the Coronavirus (no isolation/no shutdown of businesses), and had we taken that route the effects would have been catastrophic as that would have overburdened our healthcare system and many more young and old would have died as we simply would not have been able to treat those in need of ICU beds or ventilators.
There is not a single rational person that can deny the above fact.

 

[Leslielake]

The OP has gotta answer few questions honestly to himself:

What if a girl or a client dies because the agency was open? (teenagers and people in their 20's, 30's have also died, anyone can die or get severely ill).

Who is going to disinfect the bed and everything that was touched client after client? How long of a break are you going to give her so a thorough cleaning can take place (if it ever takes place)? How can you monitor the cleaning process?

If a girl dies because she was working, are you going to personally call her family and say what?

Clients can lie in regards to screening. How can you stop them from lying?

What if I show up and infect your girl unknowingly because I got Covid an hour prior to the appointment and she goes on to infect numerous other men who go home and infect their family. All of this happens unknowingly. How can you stop this dilemma?

I have a little sister who is diabetic - if you guys are open and I think with my dick and become greedy for a little while and hop on to see one your girl and your girl infects me, and in return, I infect my diabetic sister when I get home. She already has a very weak immune system... you know where I'm going? There are hundreds of thousands of people out there like my sister.

Many condos are not letting outsiders in and hotels are nearly empty - how would they react when they will see client traffic in and out? I'm sure every person going in will be asked by security why they are there?

Don, If a client or a girl gets infected - trust me they will do a rigorous contact tracing. And when government and health officials are strictly advising to maintain physical distancing - and if they trace it back to your agency, you can get into a lot of shit. You have to show leadership here and stop us dickheads from coming. Hardcore hobbyists will show up anyway, you have to stop them. Let's play our part and be responsible citizens. Please don't help spread this virus and cause more unnecessary stress to health workers. When the dust settles down or a vaccine is available then you can open up. Please don't start in the middle of physical distancing. We are not allowed to go in a cinema/retail shop and here we are discussing getting intimate in the middle of a pandemic.

 

[Buick Mackane]

The OP has gotta answer few questions honestly to himself:

What if a girl or a client dies because the agency was open? (teenagers and people in their 20's, 30's have also died, anyone can die or get severely ill).

Who is going to disinfect the bed and everything that was touched client after client? How long of a break are you going to give her so a thorough cleaning can take place (if it ever takes place)? How can you monitor the cleaning process?

If a girl dies because she was working, are you going to personally call her family and say what?

Clients can lie in regards to screening. How can you stop them from lying?

What if I show up and infect your girl unknowingly because I got Covid an hour prior to the appointment and she goes on to infect numerous other men who go home and infect their family. All of this happens unknowingly. How can you stop this dilemma?

I have a little sister who is diabetic - if you guys are open and I think with my dick and become greedy for a little while and hop on to see one your girl and your girl infects me, and in return, I infect my diabetic sister when I get home. She already has a very weak immune system... you know where I'm going? There are hundreds of thousands of people out there like my sister.

Many condos are not letting outsiders in and hotels are nearly empty - how would they react when they will see client traffic in and out? I'm sure every person going in will be asked by security why they are there?

Don, If a client or a girl gets infected - trust me they will do a rigorous contact tracing. And when government and health officials are strictly advising to maintain physical distancing - and if they trace it back to your agency, you can get into a lot of shit. You have to show leadership here and stop us dickheads from coming. Hardcore hobbyists will show up anyway, you have to stop them. Let's play our part and be responsible citizens. Please don't help spread this virus and cause more unnecessary stress to health workers. When the dust settles down or a vaccine is available then you can open up. Please don't start in the middle of physical distancing. We are not allowed to go in a cinema/retail shop and here we are discussing getting intimate in the middle of a pandemic.

Excellent questions.
I think it’s far too early to consider opening an agency.
He can’t absolve himself of liability if someone dies.

 

[Leslielake]

Excellent questions.
I think it’s far too early to consider opening an agency.
He can’t absolve himself of liability if someone dies.

The adult industry will be the last of the last of the last business to open up.

 

[bebe]

The adult industry will be the last of the last of the last business to open up.

You are out of touch with the times, some agencies are still open, many many girls are still working. The adult industry will not be the last to open, it never closed.

Stop spreading lies.

 

[jetwolf]

You took it even one step further out of context and compared the number of deaths from Covid-19 of people under 65 years of age VS the total numbers of motor vehicle accidents 71deaths/Mln. It's a ridiculous comparison to say the least.

The rate of death due to motor vehicle accidents is not something you'd expect to vary significantly between age groups. If it's 71 deaths/million for the entire population, it's likely to be in the same ballpark for the segment of the population under 65 as well.

So, if we are trying to compare the level of risk to those under 65 from coronavirus vs. motor vehicle accidents, I believe the comparison I made is valid.

Some of the projections of the virus were based on doing absolutely nothing at all in the fight against the Coronavirus (no isolation/no shutdown of businesses), and had we taken that route the effects would have been catastrophic as that would have overburdened our healthcare system and many more young and old would have died as we simply would not have been able to treat those in need of ICU beds or ventilators.

We don't know what would have happened if different public policy choices had been taken, and we'll never know. We can only make models / predictions (retroactive ones in this case), and a wide range of predictions have been made by members of the scientific community.

To give one example of a dissenting opinion on this topic in the scientific community, Nobel prize-winning scientist and professor Michael Levitt has argued recently that unrestrained exponential growth was never a realistic model, and lockdowns likely played only a minor role in a flattening of the curve which likely would have happened anyways.

 

[jetwolf]

When the dust settles down or a vaccine is available then you can open up. Please don't start in the middle of physical distancing. We are not allowed to go in a cinema/retail shop and here we are discussing getting intimate in the middle of a pandemic.

I didn't take Don's question as suggesting that he's contemplating opening up today.

On the other hand, widespread availability of a vaccine is projected to happen "in 2+ years, if ever".

Expecting the industry to completely shut down for 2+ years is not realistic. Having it go indie-only for 2+ years doesn't seem particularly helpful either, as providers would not be able to benefit from the valuable safeguards and services that agencies provide in that time.

There ought to be a reasonable middle ground, a reopening date for agencies that's not today, but not some "2+ years down the line" hypothetical either.

There is nothing wrong with having a discussion today about that future reopening date, and what sort of safeguards to put in place. It's the sort of conversation all sorts of businesses are having right now.