Some masks better than others

[Phil C. McNasty]

So even though you admit the main transmission is through droplets and aerosols, you are still trying to claim that masks that block droplets and aerosols are useless. Hmm.

I never said droplets and aerosols are the MAIN mode of transmission, I only said they are 2 out of 3 modes of transmission

They do say N95 can block particles that size but they have no evidence of covid transmission at that level

AFAIK any virus can be transmitted through virions (AKA free particles).

You just dont seem to understand it, so I'll use an analogy.
When you inhale smoke from a cigarette, and you then exhale that smoke again. Are you exhaling droplets, aerosols or free particles of tobacco??

 

[basketcase]

I never said droplets and aerosols are the MAIN mode of transmission, I only said they are 2 out of 3 modes of transmission


AFAIK any virus can be transmitted through virions (AKA free particles).

You just dont seem to understand it, so I'll use an analogy.
When you inhale smoke from a cigarette, and you then exhale that smoke again. Are you exhaling droplets, aerosols or free particles of tobacco??

So no evidence, just silly analogies. Thanks.

All of the studies on covid have evidence of droplets and aerosols. None that I have seen show free virions transmitting covid (that's why I asked you for studies that said so). With no evidence of transmission from free virions, there is no science to support your claims.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

So no evidence, just silly analogies. Thanks

Answer the question:

When you inhale smoke from a cigarette, and you then exhale that smoke again. Are you exhaling droplets, aerosols or free particles of tobacco??

 

[basketcase]

Answer the question:

When you inhale smoke from a cigarette, and you then exhale that smoke again. Are you exhaling droplets, aerosols or free particles of tobacco??

Are you still pretending smoke and particles of tobacco are analogous to viruses? (Beyond the stupid idea that virions and bits of tobacco are anywhere near the same size)

Answer the question, what studies show covid spreads through free virions.



p.s. I don't smoke. I follow medical advice.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Here's the evidence for you: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7579175/

Assuming that a respiratory particle can be completely (100%) constituted of SARS-CoV-2, the theoretical minimum size of particles containing SARS-CoV-2 is calculated to be 0.09 μm corresponding to the size of a single virion

Now look at Lee's theory, minimum size of PARTICLES range between 0.4um and 0.09um.
Those particles would go right through any surgical mask

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Are you still pretending smoke and particles of tobacco are analogous to viruses? (Beyond the stupid idea that virions and bits of tobacco are anywhere near the same size)

You're absolutely right. Tobacco smoke particles are MUCH bigger than viral particles.
So if tobacco smoke can go right through a mask, then of course free Covid particles can as well

 

[Tony Figaro]

These have been tested by CBC and passed.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mask-filtration-standards-marketplace-1.5974442

 

[benstt]

Here's the evidence for you: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7579175/

Assuming that a respiratory particle can be completely (100%) constituted of SARS-CoV-2, the theoretical minimum size of particles containing SARS-CoV-2 is calculated to be 0.09 μm corresponding to the size of a single virion

They are showing the theoretical lower limit, not asserting that these smaller particles are happening in the real world. This is part of work to compare a theoretical model against experimental results.

The second major point is that masks block smaller particles than their physical gap size, with various levels of efficiency. It is not an all or nothing thing.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/410364O/filtration-mechanisms-for-particulate-respirators.pdf

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

They are showing the theoretical lower limit, not asserting that these smaller particles are happening in the real world. This is part of work to compare a theoretical model against experimental results

Right, but basketcase's previous argument was that viruses could only be spread through droplets or aerosols, and not through virions, which isnt true. Then he changed his argument to prove whether Covid can be spread through virions. If other viruses can be spread through virions, then why cant Covid??

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

The second major point is that masks block smaller particles than their physical gap size, with various levels of efficiency. It is not an all or nothing thing

Here's the thing, surgical masks have so many gaps on each side that they become practically useless. Whatever tiny amount of air the front of the mask blocks simply escapes through he sides, the bottom, or the top. And since Covid is airborne I dont see how a surgical mask can make any difference in the spread of Covid, and the numbers after masks were mandated seem to prove that since new infections went up, and not down.

Watch this video all the way to the end where the girl introduces the N95 mask.
She can't even breathe because the N95 mask does such a good job of blocking the smoke

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I will admit, I was surprised how well the circled mask did

 

[benstt]

Right, but basketcase's previous argument was that viruses could only be spread through droplets or aerosols, and not through virions, which isnt true.

Your paper does not show that.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Your paper does not show that.

COVID-19 Spread by Droplets? Free Particles? Or 'A Little Bit of Both'?

Setting plays key role in transmission dynamics, expert says

www.medpagetoday.com

Hundreds of epidemiologists from around the world sent a letter to the World Health Organization (WHO) asserting that people can contract SARS-CoV-2 infection from airborne virions

 

[benstt]

COVID-19 Spread by Droplets? Free Particles? Or 'A Little Bit of Both'?

Setting plays key role in transmission dynamics, expert says

www.medpagetoday.com

Again, they are asserting it, not proving it. In 2020. Asserting, assuming... Where is a paper that shows it?

There are papers showing masks reduce transmission in the real world. This is known. You keep trying to come up with theoretical arguments about how that can't be, but it is.

Good luck with your merry go round.

Maybe its time for the mods to lock this fountain of misinformation thread. For politics, trolling is amusing. For a pandemic, it is dangerous.

 

[massman]

Again, they are asserting it, not proving it. In 2020. Asserting, assuming... Where is a paper that shows it?

There are papers showing masks reduce transmission in the real world. This is known. You keep trying to come up with theoretical arguments about how that can't be, but it is.

Good luck with your merry go round.

Maybe its time for the mods to lock this fountain of misinformation thread. For politics, trolling is amusing. For a pandemic, it is dangerous.

How about this for an analogy for the “masks are useless” folks.
Its easy to score on an empty hockey net (your mouth and nose). Put a goalie (surgical mask) in front, there are still holes the puck (virus) can get thru, but it’s a lot harder. Put netting (n95) in front and it’s almost impossible to score.
Just because the pore size of a mask is smaller than some droplet / aerosol particles does not mean it offers no protection. Many of those particles will hit a mask fiber on the way and be stopped. They don’t steer themselves. The more layers, the higher the chance of the particle hitting a fiber. That’s why , even tho surgical and cloth masks have been shown to lower transmission in many studies, even tho the virus can be spread by aerosol or small droplets.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Again, they are asserting it, not proving it. In 2020. Asserting, assuming... Where is a paper that shows it?

There are papers showing masks reduce transmission in the real world. This is known. You keep trying to come up with theoretical arguments about how that can't be, but it is.

Good luck with your merry go round.

Maybe its time for the mods to lock this fountain of misinformation thread. For politics, trolling is amusing. For a pandemic, it is dangerous

How can this thread be dangerous when I tell you which masks to wear, and not to wear??
Do you think its safer to wear masks that dont work??

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

How about this for an analogy for the “masks are useless” folks.
Its easy to score on an empty hockey net (your mouth and nose). Put a goalie (surgical mask) in front, there are still holes the puck (virus) can get thru, but it’s a lot harder. Put netting (n95) in front and it’s almost impossible to score

Except for the fact that with surgical masks the puck will just go around the net, instead going through the front.
Thats the whole crux of my argument

 

[massman]

Except for the fact that with surgical masks the puck will just go around the net, instead going through the front.
Thats the whole crux of my argument

View attachment 112612

Sometimes it will go around the goalie, sure; but a lot of air enters/ exits thru the mask too, and this is filtered, a lot of it depending on fit. But I definitely agree that respirators are superior especially with a highly transmissible airborne virus. Non respirator masks are better than nothing, but respirator (Eg n95) are no doubt superior.

 

[basketcase]

How about this for an analogy for the “masks are useless” folks.
Its easy to score on an empty hockey net (your mouth and nose). Put a goalie (surgical mask) in front, there are still holes the puck (virus) can get thru, but it’s a lot harder. Put netting (n95) in front and it’s almost impossible to score.
Just because the pore size of a mask is smaller than some droplet / aerosol particles does not mean it offers no protection. Many of those particles will hit a mask fiber on the way and be stopped. They don’t steer themselves. The more layers, the higher the chance of the particle hitting a fiber. That’s why , even tho surgical and cloth masks have been shown to lower transmission in many studies, even tho the virus can be spread by aerosol or small droplets.

Too logical. (though I'd say cloth masks are a Junior A goalie, medical grade surgical masks are pro goalies, and N95 is the Vezina winner.

 

[donny123]

Lol