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The Cochrane Report on Masks

The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
''

For those who don’t know, the Cochrane Collaboration is named after Archie Cochrane, a British epidemiologist who beat the drum loudly for evidence-based medical thinking. Not just doing what had been done forever, but doing what the best medical evidence available recommends. The Cochrane Collaboration is a prestigious and highly respected international medical research organization founded in 1993 to conduct systematic reviews of all the pertinent medical literature and extract the best recommendations based on the most current research on any given disease or intervention.

Since the Cochrane Collaboration is free from pharmaceutical or other industry funding, and since it involves the collaboration of many, many experts on a given subject, its results are considered the gold standard of current evidence.

The only real blemish on the record of the Cochrane Collaboration was when an internal dispute ended up with the group basically kicking out one of the founding members, Dr. Peter Gøtzsche. Dr. Gøtzsche is a Danish physician, who accused members of Cochrane of basically selling out where psychotropic drugs are concerned. Many of you have probably heard of Dr. Gøtzsche due to his many books, the most famous of which is Deadly Medicines and Organized Crime.

I know Dr. Gøtzsche. I have heard him speak numerous times, and have spent time with him. He’s an irascible guy, so I can see how he would get under the skin of anyone who disagreed with him. I suspect the folks at Cochrane were glad to see the back of him and vice versa.

The medical profession—at least those who keep up—pretty much relies on the findings of the Cochrane Collaboration to define what is the current best evidence for treatment. That doesn’t mean it will be the very best treatment, just that it’s deemed the best based on the currently available studies.

Having provided all this prologue, I’m happy to report that the Cochrane Collaboration has released its latest report advising that masking with medical/ surgical masks provides no protection against Covid, influenza, or other aerosol viral diseases.

We included 12 trials (10 cluster‐RCTs) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness (two trials with healthcare workers and 10 in the community). Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza‐like illness (ILI)/COVID‐19 like illness compared to not wearing masks… 9 trials, 276,917 participants; moderate‐certainty evidence.
Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of laboratory‐confirmed influenza/SARS‐CoV‐2 compared to not wearing masks… trials, 13,919 participants; moderate‐certainty evidence.
Harms were rarely measured and poorly reported (very low‐certainty evidence).
I’ve removed all the statistical numbers and separated the sentences for easier reading. You can see the original here.

I know, I know, you’re saying to yourselves, yea, but what about N95 masks. Those do work.

Well, not so fast. Here’s what the folks at Cochrane discovered about those:

We pooled trials comparing N95/P2 respirators with medical/surgical masks (four in healthcare settings and one in a household setting). We are very uncertain on the effects of N95/P2 respirators compared with medical/surgical masks on the outcome of clinical respiratory illness… 3 trials, 7779 participants; very low‐certainty evidence.
N95/P2 respirators compared with medical/surgical masks may be effective for ILI… 8407 participants; low‐certainty evidence. Evidence is limited by imprecision and heterogeneity for these subjective outcomes.
The use of a N95/P2 respirators compared to medical/surgical masks probably makes little or no difference for the objective and more precise outcome of laboratory‐confirmed influenza infection…; 5 trials, 8407 participants; (moderate‐certainty evidence). Restricting pooling to healthcare workers made no difference to the overall findings.
Harms were poorly measured and reported, but discomfort wearing medical/surgical masks or N95/P2 respirators was mentioned in several studies (very low‐certainty evidence).
One previously reported ongoing RCT has now been published and observed that medical/surgical masks were non‐inferior to N95 respirators in a large study of 1009 healthcare workers in four countries providing direct care to COVID‐19 patients.
Again, I removed the statistical figures and separated some of the sentences for easier reading. All the numbers are in the original.

The authors of this report summarize as follows:

The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection.
It’s hard to be clearer than that. “No clear reduction…” and “no clear differences…” are pretty firm statements that masks don’t work. Especially coming from Cochrane.

I wonder how the we’re-all-going-to-die-if-we-don’t-wear-masks brigade is going to respond to this?''
 

Addict2sex

Well-known member
Jan 29, 2017
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''

For those who don’t know, the Cochrane Collaboration is named after Archie Cochrane, a British epidemiologist who beat the drum loudly for evidence-based medical thinking. Not just doing what had been done forever, but doing what the best medical evidence available recommends. The Cochrane Collaboration is a prestigious and highly respected international medical research organization founded in 1993 to conduct systematic reviews of all the pertinent medical literature and extract the best recommendations based on the most current research on any given disease or intervention.

Since the Cochrane Collaboration is free from pharmaceutical or other industry funding, and since it involves the collaboration of many, many experts on a given subject, its results are considered the gold standard of current evidence.

The only real blemish on the record of the Cochrane Collaboration was when an internal dispute ended up with the group basically kicking out one of the founding members, Dr. Peter Gøtzsche. Dr. Gøtzsche is a Danish physician, who accused members of Cochrane of basically selling out where psychotropic drugs are concerned. Many of you have probably heard of Dr. Gøtzsche due to his many books, the most famous of which is Deadly Medicines and Organized Crime.

I know Dr. Gøtzsche. I have heard him speak numerous times, and have spent time with him. He’s an irascible guy, so I can see how he would get under the skin of anyone who disagreed with him. I suspect the folks at Cochrane were glad to see the back of him and vice versa.

The medical profession—at least those who keep up—pretty much relies on the findings of the Cochrane Collaboration to define what is the current best evidence for treatment. That doesn’t mean it will be the very best treatment, just that it’s deemed the best based on the currently available studies.

Having provided all this prologue, I’m happy to report that the Cochrane Collaboration has released its latest report advising that masking with medical/ surgical masks provides no protection against Covid, influenza, or other aerosol viral diseases.


I’ve removed all the statistical numbers and separated the sentences for easier reading. You can see the original here.

I know, I know, you’re saying to yourselves, yea, but what about N95 masks. Those do work.

Well, not so fast. Here’s what the folks at Cochrane discovered about those:


Again, I removed the statistical figures and separated some of the sentences for easier reading. All the numbers are in the original.

The authors of this report summarize as follows:


It’s hard to be clearer than that. “No clear reduction…” and “no clear differences…” are pretty firm statements that masks don’t work. Especially coming from Cochrane.

I wonder how the we’re-all-going-to-die-if-we-don’t-wear-masks brigade is going to respond to this?''
Not a peep from the leftist or libtard or from CDC. Remember Anthony Facui is science that what he said about himself…they like to control the narrative even if they are wrong! It important to remind them how wrong they( mainstream media, WHO, CDC, liberal , China, and western governments ) and it important for them and everyone to learn from the mistakes made in this pandemic. And learn from it and not repeat the same mistak which everyone can benefit from this study!
I strongly hope and pray we learn from this pandemic and prepare not to made the same mistake again! Learn what was done correctly and what was done incorrectly And learn from it!! I think the only country got this pandemic mostly correctly was Sweden!!
 

The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
23,036
46,169
113
On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
Not a peep from the leftist or libtard or from CDC. Remember Anthony Facui is science that what he said about himself…they like to control the narrative even if they are wrong! It important to remind them how wrong they( mainstream media, WHO, CDC, liberal , China, and western governments ) and it important for them and everyone to learn from the mistakes made in this pandemic. And learn from it and not repeat the same mistak which everyone can benefit from this study!
I strongly hope and pray we learn from this pandemic and prepare not to made the same mistake again! Learn what was done correctly and what was done incorrectly And learn from it!! I think the only country got this pandemic mostly correctly was Sweden!!
I had hope for the N95's but according to Cochrane they were just as futile.
 
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Addict2sex

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Sweden could had done the pandemic slightly better, by protecting the elderly in long term care , and the weak and sick in the beginning of pandemic! That way their elderly deAth tolls would been lower!! The herd immunity with general population was the correct decision and no economic lockdowns. Which result in not destroying the economy and shutting down school was the correct decision!! The world should take notice and learn from it!!
 

krealtarron

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Nov 12, 2021
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From your study:

What are the limitations of the evidence?

Our confidence in these results is generally low
to moderate for the subjective outcomes related to respiratory illness, but moderate for the more precisely defined laboratory‐confirmed respiratory virus infection, related to masks and N95/P2 respirators. The results might change when further evidence becomes available. Relatively low numbers of people followed the guidance about wearing masks or about hand hygiene, which may have affected the results of the studies.

They themselves do not appear confident enough to assert that "Masks dont work". Stop manipulating a study and just state the actual conclusions, not your own.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Also from the linked review:
-----
Authors' conclusions

The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There were additional RCTs during the pandemic related to physical interventions but a relative paucity given the importance of the question of masking and its relative effectiveness and the concomitant measures of mask adherence which would be highly relevant to the measurement of effectiveness, especially in the elderly and in young children.


There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect. The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection. Hand hygiene is likely to modestly reduce the burden of respiratory illness, and although this effect was also present when ILI and laboratory‐confirmed influenza were analysed separately, it was not found to be a significant difference for the latter two outcomes. Harms associated with physical interventions were under‐investigated.


There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs.
----

All in all, it seems a fair review and statement of the serious limitations involved, along with a call for better data.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Out of curiousity, Oracle, why are all your links substack redirects?

If you are going to cut and paste Michael Eades, just say that's what you are doing.
 

Addict2sex

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Out of curiousity, Oracle, why are all your links substack redirects?
Out of curiousity you have problems with clinical studies? You still in favour of lockdown? And shutting down the economy and destroying it?At least admit this common sense Swedish approach was the correct one to establish herd immunity against respiratory virus ! You cannot stop respiratory viruses with lockdowns unless you will a hazmat suit!!! Admits this the rest of the world got it wrong!! Only sweden got it mostly correct! Eat crow if you had on favour lockdown and destroy your economy !
 

Valcazar

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Mar 27, 2014
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Out of curiousity you have problems with clinical studies?
Nope.
I'm a big fan.

You still in favour of lockdown?
When appropriate, sure.
The US would have benefited from an actual lockdown at some point.
Canada - in some regions - as well.

Fetishizing any one intervention isn't good, though.

At least admit this common sense Swedish approach was the correct one to establish herd immunity against respiratory virus ! You cannot stop respiratory viruses with lockdowns unless you will a hazmat suit!!! Admits this the rest of the world got it wrong!! Only sweden got it mostly correct! Eat crow if you had on favour lockdown and destroy your economy !
You mean Sweden where more people got sick and died per capita than Canada?

1675549482826.png

1675549429764.png

Sweden did OK!
Restaurants and bars were required to move to table service only, social gatherings of more than fifty people were banned, and high schools and universities were advised (but not ordered) to move to remote teaching where feasible They offered suggestions about social distancing and mask wearing that people followed and discussed making them formal rules but had decent compliance so didn't do that in the end.

They ended up doing not the worst, not the best.

And, of course, they failed to get herd immunity without vaccines just like everyone else did. Of course, other than some wackos, no one was suggesting people do that since it would have raised their death toll even higher.
 

Addict2sex

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Nope.
I'm a big fan.



When appropriate, sure.
The US would have benefited from an actual lockdown at some point.
Canada - in some regions - as well.

Fetishizing any one intervention isn't good, though.



You mean Sweden where more people got sick and died per capita than Canada?

View attachment 208286

View attachment 208285

Sweden did OK!
Restaurants and bars were required to move to table service only, social gatherings of more than fifty people were banned, and high schools and universities were advised (but not ordered) to move to remote teaching where feasible They offered suggestions about social distancing and mask wearing that people followed and discussed making them formal rules but had decent compliance so didn't do that in the end.

They ended up doing not the worst, not the best.

And, of course, they failed to get herd immunity without vaccines just like everyone else did. Of course, other than some wackos, no one was suggesting people do that since it would have raised their death toll even higher.
Maybe someone at Terb can find graph how much economic destruction occur on shutdown vs no shutdown! Or how much billions of debt or in case of USA trillions of dollar is added onto debt vs least amount of GDP damage on the economy of no lockdowns. And how many people died from lockdowns with sucide because of destruction of the business or lost of employment! Or lockdown vs people not going to see doctor because of lockdown and also delaying of emergency surgery, or cancer treatments because of lockdown!

Your graph don’t included all these damages due to lockdown Vs Swedish approach!

PS. It so easy to do cherry picking to fit your narrative! Anything for your blue tribe as long as the blue tribe win! Try to be at least be honest!
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Maybe someone at Terb can find graph how much economic destruction occur on shutdown vs no shutdown! Or how much billions of debt or in case of USA trillions of dollar is added onto debt vs least amount of GDP damage on the economy of no lockdowns. And how many people died from lockdowns with sucide because of destruction of the business or lost of employment! Or lockdown vs people not going to see doctor because of lockdown and also delaying of emergency surgery, or cancer treatments because of lockdown!
This would all be really good information!
Sweden, of course, did just as badly economically as the other Nordic countries in the first year or so of the Pandemic, their approach didn't save their economy.
But maybe they recovered faster! I don't know. Someone surely has done the study and you could look for it.

Your graph don’t included all these damages due to lockdown Vs Swedish approach!
No. That graph was of infection and death.
The excess deaths data for Sweden is pretty good, actually! (Within the limits of cross country comparison of excess death, which are a known problem).

Sweden did ok, like I said.

People who want to point to Sweden and say they were reckless and crazy for political reasons are clearly wrong.
People who want to point to Sweden and say "if we had just done the Great Barrington Declaration approach we would have been better than everyone" for political reasons are clearly wrong.

The real answer is complicated and messy, as you would expect for people trying to react in real time to a crisis.

PS. It so easy to do cherry picking to fit your narrative! Anything for your blue tribe as long as the blue tribe win! Try to be at least be honest!
You have to stop projecting your mind set on other people, Addict2Sex.
 

Addict2sex

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This would all be really good information!
Sweden, of course, did just as badly economically as the other Nordic countries in the first year or so of the Pandemic, their approach didn't save their economy.
But maybe they recovered faster! I don't know. Someone surely has done the study and you could look for it.



No. That graph was of infection and death.
The excess deaths data for Sweden is pretty good, actually! (Within the limits of cross country comparison of excess death, which are a known problem).

Sweden did ok, like I said.

People who want to point to Sweden and say they were reckless and crazy for political reasons are clearly wrong.
People who want to point to Sweden and say "if we had just done the Great Barrington Declaration approach we would have been better than everyone" for political reasons are clearly wrong.

The real answer is complicated and messy, as you would expect for people trying to react in real time to a crisis.
On October 4, 2020, this declaration was authored and signed in Great Barrington, United States, by the way. Once data was in .. In real time crisis real leader should had pivot to Great Barrington Approaches!! Unfortunately leader like WHO or CDC didn’t pivot!!
Stop covering or giving excuses for your blue tribes or for your bad political reasons for this pandemic fuck up!!

Funny you only compared graph with Sweden and Canada.. I wonder why???
 

Addict2sex

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Jan 29, 2017
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Here let me help you…. you always keep cherry picking data to fit your blue tribe agenda !!

Let me help you!!

Sweden’s Covid death rate among lowest in Europe, despite avoiding strict lockdowns
New WHO figures show pandemic wrought ‘staggering toll’ of almost 15m fatalities, but harsh restrictions were not the key to beating virus



Sweden’s death rate during the Covid pandemic is among the lowest in Europe, despite the country refusing to impose strict lockdowns, according to new figures from the World Health Organisation.

The UN health agency released estimates of excess deaths - people who died directly and indirectly from Covid - showing the pandemic had wrought a “staggering toll” worldwide, with 14.9 million fatalities, three times higher than fatalities officially reported.

Britain, according to the new data, had a lower excess death rate than Spain, Germany and Italy.

Experts said the difference demonstrated stringent lockdowns alone did not determine success when battling Covid-19.

The WHO analysis includes deaths directly linked to Covid but also indirect fatalities - including those unable to access healthcare for other conditions while services were overwhelmed or suspended.

It also accounts for deaths averted during the pandemic, for example because of the lower risk of traffic accidents during lockdowns.

Sweden, which was criticised in the early stages of the pandemic for resisting a mandatory lockdown, had fewer deaths per capita than much of Europe.

In 2020 and 2021, the country had an average excess death rate of 56 per 100,000 - compared to 109 in the UK, 111 in Spain, 116 in Germany and 133 in Italy.

Low obesity rates played factor
Although Sweden fared worse than its Nordic neighbours, lower rates of obesity - a key risk factor for severe coronavirus disease - and a better-resourced healthcare system helped limit fatalities in the country.

“The lesson from Sweden is to invest in your population's health and have less inequality,” Prof Devi Sridhar, the chairman of global public health at the University


Don’t you think this a better graph below Valcazar ??? The one you show be on post # 9 is obvious you are cherry picking again!!!





She said that although the UK’s initial response was weak, the country “definitely did better post-vaccine rollout than other places”, which contributed to a lower excess death rate overall.

Dr Michael Head, a senior research fellow in global health at the University of Southampton, added: “There have been too many preventable deaths here in the UK during the pandemic. However, early rollout of the vaccines, including the booster doses, will also have averted many deaths.

“By the end of the pandemic, it's likely that the UK will probably end up mid-table on various metrics that measure pandemic performance, such as excess mortality,” he told The Telegraph.

Meanwhile some countries - including Australia, New Zealand and Japan - actually reported negative excess death rates, suggesting there were fewer fatalities than expected during 2020 and 2021.

The global disparity between official figures and excess deaths is not a surprise. Even before the pandemic, around six in 10 deaths globally went unreported.

The WHO said that middle-income countries - where both Covid testing and death registrations are patchy - account for 81 per cent of excess deaths in the first two years of the pandemic, compared to just 15 per cent in high-income nations.

Dr William Msemburi, an WHO official, added that the vast majority of deaths - some 68 per cent - were centred in just 10 countries, which include the United States, Russia and India.

Global death toll higher for men than women
“We have found that the global death toll is higher for men than for women,” he said, a split of 57 per cent to 43 per cent. Fatalities were also centred among the elderly, with 82 per cent of excess deaths estimated to have occurred in the over-60s.

Overall, the WHO figures are actually lower than those separately compiled by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation and The Economist, which put the figure at between 18 and 21 million respectively.

However, the analysis has provoked fury from the Indian government, amid fears that they will embarrass both Narendra Modi, the prime minister, and his ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

The WHO said the country - which was devastated in spring 2021 by the delta variant - witnessed almost a third of all fatalities worldwide, with 4.7 million excess deaths. This is 10 times higher than the official toll of 482,000.

According to the New York Times, the government had stalled the publication of the WHO figures, which were initially earmarked for release in January. On Thursday, India doubled down on their criticism, insisting that the registration of both births and deaths across the country is “extremely robust” and claiming the WHO used “questionable” methodology and data.

Excess death figures critical to hold governments to account
But Colin Angus, a modeller at the University of Sheffield who was not involved in the study, said the WHO’s methodology “looks entirely sensible”, adding that excess death estimates are critical to hold governments to account.

The figures were compiled by a panel made up of international experts who have been working on the data for months, using a combination of national and local information, as well as statistical models, to estimate totals where the data are incomplete.

“Numbers are sometimes controversial,” Dr Samira Asma, an assistant director-general for data, analytics and delivery at WHO, told a press briefing. “Covid has illuminated a staggering toll already - but also a staggering data gap… our goal is for every country to have robust surveillance and data information systems, and it is possible.”

It is difficult to precisely compare the pandemic’s toll to previous international health emergencies. Fatality estimates for the Spanish flu, for instance, vary widely – from 20 million to 100 million, although the global population was far smaller then.

But the Covid toll is far higher than for other infectious diseases. Each year tuberculosis kills around 1.5 million people and HIV around 680,000 people, while 627,000 people died from malaria last year.
 

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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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On October 4, 2020, this declaration was authored and signed in Great Barrington, United States, by the way. Once data was in .. In real time crisis real leader should had pivot to Great Barrington Approaches!! Unfortunately leader like WHO or CDC didn’t pivot!!
Stop covering or giving excuses for your blue tribes or for your bad political reasons for this pandemic fuck up!!
The Great Barrington Declaration was and is a shitshow that luckily didn't gain traction.

Funny you only compared graph with Sweden and Canada.. I wonder why???
Because it was all I needed to refute your ridiculous "Sweden obviously got it right" narrative.

I could have used the rest of the Nordic countries of course - if I wanted to get into issues of "what are appropriate cross-country comparisons to make"- but since you were obviously going to go for the "They did better than all of Europe" (which I see you did) it was pretty clear that would be a waste of time. No point trying to have a real discussion about complex issues when that wasn't going to be happening since you are just looking for whatever supports your narrative.
 
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