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Jersey City gunmen targeted Jewish grocery for lethal attack: mayor

mellowjello

Well-known member
Jan 11, 2017
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The same as the point in post #24. Even if you are only partly Jewish, you should be ashamed of yourself. It sounds like something frank would say.
Although I don't share your views on Frank, I don't like the insinuation because I know what you're trying to say by that.
If you're asking me to refer to post #24, I'll ask you to refer to post #40.
 

peteeey

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Aug 18, 2001
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Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Blame the alt-right
Hhmm......you sure??

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/jersey-city-shootout-developing-details-3-2/2239660/

The two people who stormed a kosher grocery store in Jersey City with rifles, killing three people inside and also murdering a veteran detective, have been identified as David Anderson and Francine Graham, four law enforcement sources familiar with the case tell News 4.

A senior law enforcement official says the attack is now being investigated as a possible hate crime.

Three sources say Anderson was a one-time follower of the Black Hebrew Israelite movement, a group whose members believe they are descendants of the ancient Israelites and may adhere to both Christian and Judaic beliefs.

The Southern Poverty Law Center has labeled the Hebrew Israelites a black supremacist group. Some sects within the movement are known for their fierce condemnations of white and Jewish people
 

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
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So are you saying that Jews bombed buses filled with Jews?
Celticman the victors write the history, the war for the creation of Israel was vicious. There were atrocities committed on both sides. Sadly Israel missed three opportunities to negotiate a settlement, the Palestinians remain stateless and the Jews can never have peace.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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There's no truth in that at all.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/23/trump-disloyalty-claim-raises-anti-semitic-trope
And even less truth in that.[/QUOTE]

Here's the evidence:

The same as the point in post #24. Even if you are only partly Jewish, you should be ashamed of yourself. It sounds like something frank would say.
Shack insinuates that I'm anti-semitic, but he ignores the fact that there is big history of a left leaning Jewish community in Toronto, just as there are Canadian Jews who are ashamed to be associated with Israeli policy, like IJVCanada.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I said exactly what I said. You appear to try to minimize what happened in Jersey and minimize antisemitism. Jews are the largest victims of racism in North america.
Even bigger than Slavery or the genocide of and continuing treatment of Natives?
 

Celticman

Into Ties and Tail
Aug 13, 2009
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Celticman the victors write the history, the war for the creation of Israel was vicious. There were atrocities committed on both sides. Sadly Israel missed three opportunities to negotiate a settlement, the Palestinians remain stateless and the Jews can never have peace.

IV, those are just words. You posted a serious error in fact that I refuted with evidence. The question of two sides at war was not part of the discussion and you are bringing it up instead of correcting your error.
 

Robert Mugabe

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Nov 5, 2017
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Celticman the victors write the history, the war for the creation of Israel was vicious. There were atrocities committed on both sides. Sadly Israel missed three opportunities to negotiate a settlement, the Palestinians remain stateless and the Jews can never have peace.
Which three opportunities? 1948? 1967? 1973?
 

jcpro

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Jan 31, 2014
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How does this degenerate into the another Middle East thread? Murdering Jews predates the modern Israel by over fifteen hundred years.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Murdering Jews predates the modern Israel by over fifteen hundred years.
Glad to see that there is at least one thing we agree on.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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How does this degenerate into the another Middle East thread? Murdering Jews predates the modern Israel by over fifteen hundred years.
Blame that on the moves to associate criticism of Israeli government policy with anti-semitism.
These anti-semitic crimes are horrific and need to be stopped. They are also tied to the rise in white nationalism and right wing racism.
To cut down on racist crimes we need to be able to criticize right wing, racist nationalism policies.

Incidents of antisemitism rose 60 percent in the first year of Donald Trump’s presidency. The next two years saw two of the deadliest attacks against Jews in American history—the October 27, 2018 terrorist massacre at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh and the April 29, 2019 attack on the Chabad center in Poway, California. Both were carried out by right-wing nationalists, with the same populist ideology.

And so Trump is finally taking action—against the Left.


In a remarkable executive order, an advance copy of which was released today, President Trump effectively amended Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits “discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance,” to include antisemitism.



Yet the way the order does so is almost perversely ironic, in at least three ways.

First, Title VI only prohibits discrimination on the basis of “race, color, or national origin”—not religion. To cover antisemitism, the order implicitly redefines Jewishness as one of those categories, rather than as a religion. Arguably, this is a purely legal maneuver, shoehorning antisemitism into a statute that doesn’t really cover it. But it has already caused an uproar in the Jewish community, since it is, itself, antisemitic to suggest that Jews are a foreign nation or race.

While ostensibly trying to protect Jews from discrimination, the executive order provides yet another pretext for it.

Second, of course, the whole order is the latest transparent attempt by Trump to score political points with Jewish voters, especially right-leaning ones, like moving the American embassy in Israel to Jerusalem and breaking with the entire world on the illegality of West Bank settlements.

In 2016, only 23 percent of American Jews voted for Trump, but if that number creeps up to 25 percent, it could decide Florida in 2020.

Third, and most importantly, the order singles out not terrorism against Jews but that “students, in particular, continue to face anti-Semitic harassment in schools and on university and college campuses.” And since the order is about interpreting Title VI, it presumably may be used to cut off funding from university campuses that are deemed to be too tolerant of antisemitism.

But wait a minute. How many Jews have campus activists murdered in cold blood, exactly? Why is this executive order focusing on college sophomores boycotting Israeli hummus rather than radicalized white supremacists and others who commit actual acts of violence against actual people?

The answer to that question goes beyond well beyond Donald Trump, and indeed, includes organizations and politicians (including many Democrats) who usually oppose him.

For at least a decade now, the Anti-Defamation League and other leading Jewish groups have taken a new, broader, and frankly incoherent approach to defining what antisemitism even is.


Ever since the term “Anti-Semitism” was coined in 1879, it’s had certain key features: lies about Jewish power and control; slanders against Jews being disloyal outsiders; and stereotypes of Jewish greed, cunning, and manipulation.

Indeed, the term was invented by antisemites themselves, who sought to rebrand ancient hatred of Jews in terms of race—much as the Trump order does today. After all, the young Adolf Hitler wrote in 1919 that “the Jews are definitely a race, and not a religious community.”

Such antisemitism has skyrocketed among Trump’s supporters, who, for example, depict Jewish financier George Soros as a puppetmaster controlling the State Department, the news media, and even Black Lives Matter activists; and who chant “Jews Will Not Replace Us” at racist rallies, or, in Trump’s closing campaign ad of 2016, highlight Jewish members of the media or financial worlds as enemies of the people.

This is what antisemitism has been for 150 years, whether spouted by Nazis, Stalinists, Henry Ford, or Louis Farrakhan: part of populism, with Jews cast as the foreign "others" undermining the will of the volk, or Sovietskiy narod, or ‘real’ Americans, or whomever.

(The rabidly anti-Jewish and anti-white ideology of the Black Hebrew Israelites—which may have inspired yet another terrorist attack against Jews in Jersey City this week—is different. It holds that African Americans are the true Biblical Hebrews and Jews are evil usurpers.)

Lately, however, the ADL, the U.S. State Department, and others have abandoned this definition of antisemitism and expanded it to mean basically anything bad anyone says about any Jews—or more specifically, in the words of the definition adopted by today’s order, “a form of prejudice or discrimination directed toward Jews as individuals or as a group."

More importantly, the definition includes “denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.”

That last phrase is particularly problematic, since it is a common claim made by supporters of the Anti-Israel Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement—including on many college campuses. Under the new executive order, a university that tolerated such claims could be in danger of losing its federal funding.

But wait a minute.

Is it bigotry to describe a state that treats people differently on the basis of their ethnicity as being a racist endeavor? That may be accurate or inaccurate, but it’s a statement of political opinion, not hate.

For that matter, plenty of states are called racist endeavors, including our own. Isn’t the original sin of America, according to some on the Left, the racist genocide of its indigenous people and the racist enslavement of people of African descent? Agree or disagree, that looks more like a political opinion than bigotry.

On the contrary, it’s intended to call out bigotry.

And why is “denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination” a form of Title VI discrimination but not denying the Uighur, Navajo, or Kurdish people theirs? Should a university be penalized for sponsoring a program with the Chinese government? Or the State of Arizona?

The fact is, anti-Zionism is a political ideology, not an antisemitic outburst. But that distinction has ceased to matter politically.

Not just Jewish Republicans but the mainstream of the institutional Jewish community has bought the line that BDS is antisemitism. And from there it’s an easy jump to prohibit universities from tolerating it.

And so we are living in a topsy-turvy world, in which the president of the United States condemns fake antisemitism while producing real antisemitism.

Not only is nationalist populism intrinsically antisemitic, but time and time again, Trump and his surrogates have crossed the line into overtly antisemitic statements, like the light-hearted antisemitic banter Trump engaged in before the Israeli American Council last week, joking that “a lot of you are in the real estate business because I know you very well. You’re brutal killers. Not nice people at all. But you have to vote for me; you have no choice. You’re not going to vote for Pocahontas, I can tell you that. You’re not going to vote for the wealth tax.”

These lines were met with laughter by the mostly-Jewish audience. But the canard that Jews are wealthy and greedy is part of classical antisemitism.

So is the claim, which Trump repeated a few months ago, that Jews are more loyal to Israel than to America, saying, “I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty.”

Of course, he meant this as a compliment to the “loyal” Jews who vote for Israel’s interests first (and thus vote Republican). But the same dual “loyalty” that Trump praises, white nationalists punish by death.

Trump, after all, is an anomalous nationalist. Presumably because of his many Jewish associates and family members, he seems to feel it’s OK that Jews are greedy rich people whose primary loyalty is to Israel. The guy just loves the Jews.

But the next Trump, whoever he is, probably won’t. And God help us then.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nationalists-are-murdering-jews-trump-is-targeting-campus-activists
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
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So the guys carrying torches and flags, shields, and banners bearing nazi symbols chanting “Jews will not replace us” aren’t anti-Semites?

Interesting take.
Of course they are. But so is the person who says It's all about the Benjamins or that AIPAC has bought off U.S. politicians to support Israel. Or the BDS movement. Or Minister Farrakhan's likening of Jews to termites. Anti Semitism is alive and well on the left don't kid yourself.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Of course they are. But so is the person who says It's all about the Benjamins or that AIPAC has bought off U.S. politicians to support Israel. Or the BDS movement. Or Minister Farrakhan's likening of Jews to termites. Anti Semitism is alive and well on the left don't kid yourself.
Anti-Semitism is one of those rare issues that can be bipartisan.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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True, but that is a very important distinction. For example, I have no problem at all with Chinese people, but I think the Chinese government is horrifically evil. I don’t think that’s bigoted. I think it’s perfectly ok to be critical of a country’s government. I don’t think it’s ok to be prejudiced against an entire group of people.

That said, there is certainly a lot of ignorance on the left regarding Israel. Many of these people seem to not be very aware of the history. There were wars, they’re been suicide bombers murdering busses full of children, killing innocent people in shopping malls, etc. It’s perfectly reasonable for Israelis to be wary of the Palestinians. I don’t think the Israeli government always handles things particularly well, but there is a very real national security concern.

Again, though, there’s a very big difference between being critical of Israel and hating all Jewish people everywhere in general.
I agree with you with respect to criticizing Israel.

But it's interesting that you say that Israelis have legitimate reasons to be wary of Palestinians. I would agree. But the hell of it is that Palestinians also have good reasons to be wary of Israelis since for every Isreaeli the Palestinians have killed, the Israelis have killed 9 Palestinians. That's the bargain I suppose.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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How does this degenerate into the another Middle East thread? Murdering Jews predates the modern Israel by over fifteen hundred years.
Because some people here are fixated on Jews. At least they aren't pulling their guns out like the NJ guy they share opinions with.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Trump should not get a pass, he has a history of anti-Semitic comments, from the 'hires only Jews to deal with money' type on to 'nasty, violent people' he just called a crowd of Jewish supporters.....
Coming from a guy who uses the exact same racist tropes in his attacks on Israel...
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Some objectivity is in order here, the bombing of school buses was the work of a Jewish paramilitary group in the build up to the Arab - Israeli War of 1948. They were known as The Stern Gang, their leader was Yitzhak Shamir. The war to create modern Israel was brutal, Jaffa was encircled and shelled to rubble. ...
That's a good starting point, if you want to ignore the anti-Jewish mobs that attacked Jewish communities in Jerusalem and Hebron in 1919 and again in 1929.

Stern and Irgun deserve to be condemned as terrorists but they were not the genesis of terrorism there.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts