Israel at war

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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I think that will have to be answered by future historians.

Clearly, it has had an enormous cost on the population of Gaza.

But the cost on Israel has also been enormous. It has lost the support and goodwill from a large part of the population in the global south and Europe, and even some in North America.
It still has the unconditional support from the governments of Europe and North America, so time will tell if there will be any consequences for Israel of the "war".
Israel had lost the 18-25 cadre in the west in any event, as the heavy bias in academics is pro Palestinian. The current shooting war just gives those kids a chance to parade or - since it's cold outside - post on social media.

7 October grabbed the attention of people in my age group who previously ignored the conflict as "bad on both sides" and made us think that the only feasible solution lay in the extermination of Hamas.

Militarily occupying Gaza is so easily within the grasp of the IDF that world support doesn't matter in any event. And it's pretty notable that the neighbouring Muslim countries verbally denounce Israel, but probably cheer it on behind the scenes. Hamas isn't popular.

What I see is that Israel will gradually take over the entire Gaza strip and make an attempt to administer it using Gazans unconnected with previous Hamas power structures - i.e to de-Hamasify Gaza in the same sense that the Allies de-nazified Germany after 1945. Whether this works or not remains to be seen.

If you read and follow Alkhatib (the guy I posted above), you'll glean that Hamas is not universally popular among Gazans, although Alkhatib loathes Israel as well.

The best outcome is that the extremists on BOTH sides are removed from power and influence. And yes, that includes Bibi and his buddies, as well as Hamas and Hezbollah.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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I've said for years that you can back Tamil rights in Sri Lanka without endorsing the Tigers, you can support Kurdish rights or even independence without supporting the PKK and you can support a Palestinian state alongside Israel without cheering Hamas.
Did Netanyahu not just say that Israel would accept no less than to control all land from the river to the sea?
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
shack said:
I understand 100% that you are admitting that you are talking out of your ass trying to push the ridiculous notion that a ceasefire could possibly be faster than a Hamas surrender.

I also understand 100% that despite all of your rhetoric this is further proof that you don't care if more Palis die. So, as you keep asking me, here is more proof that you are lying, you have lied and you will continue to lie.

More nonsense from you.
No attempt at a response. You admit that I'm correct. A Hamas surrender is fastest.

So now anytime you push for a ceasefire you are pushing for more more Palestinian deaths. The two cannot be separated.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
Your sounding crazier and crazier every day.
No response. You admit that Hamas and Jews/Zionists want the same thing, the land that is the officially accepted State of Israel.

If that makes Jews Zionists then you are supporting Arab Zionism. You say that you hate all Zionists.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Yep. Hamas were dummies to think that Israel wouldn't invade after they massacred, raped and kidnapped those people on 7 October.

Why do you think Hamas made that mistake?

1. Maybe they're just dumb.
2. Maybe Iran promised that they'd helpfully invade Israel and then thought twice and sacrificed their Hammy pals.
3. Maybe the Hamas billionaires in Qatar figured they suck in so many extra donations if they caused the death of all those sweet little kids in Gaza that they'd double their personal wealth and that was such a sweet idea that they said "What the fuck?! May as well get Gaza flattened. Order more champagne!"
Why do you think Israel has never just settled for the two state solution so a resistance wouldn't be needed?
Why do you think Israel committed genocide and destroyed zionism?

 
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Frankfooter

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Where is the citation in their charter? You keep lying about this.
The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.

Genuine Peace-Our Central Objective
a. The Likud government will place its aspirations for peace at the top of its priorities and will spare no effort to promote peace. The Likud will act as a genuine partner at peace treaty negotiations with our neighbors, as is customary among the nations. The Likud government will attend the Geneva Conference. .

b. The Likud governments peace initiative will he positive. Directly or through a friendly state. Israel will invite her neighbors to hold direct negotiations, in order to sign without pre-conditions on either side and without any solution formula invented by outsiders (invented outside ).

At the negotiations each party will he free to make any proposals it deems lit.

Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone.


 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
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shack said:
I understand 100% that you are admitting that you are talking out of your ass trying to push the ridiculous notion that a ceasefire could possibly be faster than a Hamas surrender.

I also understand 100% that despite all of your rhetoric this is further proof that you don't care if more Palis die. So, as you keep asking me, here is more proof that you are lying, you have lied and you will continue to lie.


No attempt at a response. You admit that I'm correct. A Hamas surrender is fastest.

So now anytime you push for a ceasefire you are pushing for more more Palestinian deaths. The two cannot be separated.
A ceasefire is fastest.
For you to say I think anything else is you lying.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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None of this is really going to happen, is it?

The west won't sanction Israel. The neighboring Sunni Arab states secretly want to deal with it.

And there's nowhere to kick the 2M Gazans out to and not enough Israelis to take their place. So the minister is a far right idiot pandering the way far right idiots do.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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None of this is really going to happen, is it?

The west won't sanction Israel. The neighboring Sunni Arab states secretly want to deal with it.

And there's nowhere to kick the 2M Gazans out to and not enough Israelis to take their place. So the minister is a far right idiot pandering the way far right idiots do.
In the first weeks you suggested that Israel push Palestinians into the Sinai yourself.
So now that Israel has raped Gaza, destroying all housing, schools, hospitals and infrastructure, what will happen when the rape stops?

 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
A ceasefire is fastest.
For you to say I think anything else is you lying.
Please explain the process involved as to how a ceasefire that requires a multilateral negotiation prior to that ceasefire taking effect can possibly be faster than a unilateral surrender by Hamas, that requires no negotiation can possibly be faster. The ceasefire after Hamas surrenders then takes effect immediately.

If you cannot do that, then you must admit that what I say is the truth.
 
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