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Israel at war

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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They probably don't even know where the tunnels are. The goal is to punish Palestinians, create pressure for them to leave and steal land. They know regardless of what they flood, they won't be able to eradicate a terrorist group.
You can eradicate terrorist groups. ISIS got hunted down and killed. Killing the vile beliefs that caused that terrorist group is more difficult.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Huh?

Germany in 1940 was an active enemy and the leader of the Axis powers. So that is hardly an appropriate comparison, to compare a terrorist group to a nation that you were fighting against.

That said even though war crime rules did not exist at that time, everyone committed war crimes back then:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_crimes_committed_during_World_War_II

My argument is that collective punishments of Palestinians is a racist war crime. Don't endorse or commit racist war crimes.
But it's NOT a collective punishment.

They're just inevitable collateral damage because HAMAS deliberately locates its military installations in civilian areas to get a reaction from people like you when the IDF comes after those military installations.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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No you cannot. Al-Qaeda and ISIS still exist. They lost the land they controlled, but they exist and they still conduct attacks and what not
ISIS still exists, but its a shadow of its former self. And thats the ultimate goal of Israel, to reduce Hamas to the point where it no longer poses any major threat to Israelis
 

Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
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So they were in Gaza because they wanted it. Now they will attempt to take it back. I posted several videos, watch them.
They were in Gaza because they were pushing back Egyptian army.
Nobody wants this leper colony.
 
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mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Huh?

Germany in 1940 was an active enemy and the leader of the Axis powers. So that is hardly an appropriate comparison, to compare a terrorist group to a nation that you were fighting against.
But it IS an appropriate comparison because Germany - like HAMAS - still had the ability to attack and injure the Allied powers until it was finally conquered. Exact same parallel.
That said even though war crime rules did not exist at that time, everyone committed war crimes back then:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_crimes_committed_during_World_War_II

My argument is that collective punishments of Palestinians is a racist war crime. Don't endorse or commit racist war crimes.
It's not collective punishment. Let me explain to you what collective punishment would look like.

The IDF over runs Gaza and kills all the HAMAS guys who they can find. They then say to the Gazan civilian population: "We're going to destroy 10% of the remaining housing in Gaza to teach you a hard lesson."

That's NOT what the IDF's stated intentions are.
 

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
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Israelis say differently. They say they want Gaza and West Bank and they want all the Palestinians to leave. So I'll take what the Israelis say as more relevant here.
why don’t you point to somewhere where is real has said they want Gaza.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Collateral damage is accidental. These are not accidental deaths. These are a result of indiscriminate bombings, which are war crimes and collective punishments.

As I said, if there are military installations in civilian areas, and if it is going to result in a huge amount of civilian deaths, then MAKE THE CHOICE TO NOT bomb that target. Handle it a different way. They make the choice to bomb it knowing it will cause numerous civilian deaths. That is a war crime.

And these civilian deaths SHOULD get a reaction from anyone who does not endorse war crimes. It is the right reaction.
Collateral damage is unavoidable damage.

How can the IDF "make the choice" not to bomb Gaza City when HAMAS has occupied and fortified it??..... It's not possible.

How are they supposed to neutralize HAMAS without actually going in and destroying its military installations and killing its guys??..... It's not possible.

There is no other way. HAMAS has deliberately sentenced many civilian Gazans to death. Simply to get guys like you angry. That's the HAMAS play here. It's deliberate. Your reaction is pre planned. YOU are the
"military goal" of the HAMAS operation.
 

Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
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Israelis say differently. They say they want Gaza and West Bank and they want all the Palestinians to leave. So I'll take what the Israelis say as more relevant here.
I call bullshit. Provide proof or stop lying. And not what some random Israeli who lost relatives or friends have said
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Germany was a state. Hamas is a terrorist group. So the comparison between Germany and Hamas is apples and oranges.
No. What you write is just simply wrong.

And that is what they are doing now. They have razed 25% of Gaza to the ground, 9000+ people dead, half of them children and counting, while the Hamas is still going strong. Collective punishment per your own definition.
No. Re read what I wrote more carefully. You're not absorbing the distinctions that I am drawing for you.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Yes. And the majority of deaths in the current conflict were avoidable. Had Israel adopted another approach, say via covert military operations, other than indiscriminate aerial bombing, these deaths could have been avoided. That said, don't forget that Israel's goal is not just to kill Hamas, it is to also punish the Palestinians and steal their lands. Its unacknowledged state policy. There is tons of evidence for it.
You have NO IDEA what the IDF commanders consider, what their intel is and how feasible it is to do any of the imaginary military operations that you suggest. It's my opinion that a slow house-by-house assault is probably the only way this could be done.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Frankie, the whole 7 October atrocity was set up to achieve exactly what you are displaying. HAMAS ensured that it got a maximum force response from Israel and also ensured that this response entailed the maximum collateral damage to Gaza and its inhabitants.

Why did it set this up?

To display endless photos of destroyed houses, hospitals, schools and dead kids to people like you. It's a PR contest. It's deliberate.
So you're saying that Hamas has outsmarted Israel?
And you think Israel is so stupid they went genocidal without knowing what it will do to them longterm?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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You have NO IDEA what the IDF commanders consider, what their intel is and how feasible it is to do any of the imaginary military operations that you suggest. It's my opinion that a slow house-by-house assault is probably the only way this could be done.
What we do know is that they've killed 10,000 people.
Mostly women and children.

Either they're really fucking evil or they are the worst army in the world.
Which do you think?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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The fact that they are "refugees" 60 years after their grandparents were evicted from their residences in what is now Israel, means that they are not legitimate refugees. They are people whose parents and grandparents were not resettled elsewhere in the Arab world and given opportunities by those other Arab countries because they were - and are - exploited as human pathos trophies.

I have a buddy whose grandparents fled Stalin from Latvia in 1955. My buddy is a successful real estate agent. By what stretch of the imagination can people whose ancestors fled a country a half century ago be called "refugees".

I sympathize with the Gazans. They are trapped. But the people who trap them are the other Arab states and the corrupt HAMAS hierarchy who are billionaires and live outside the Gaza enclave.
Also legally wrong, mandrill.
For a lawyer you seem to be making bold and wrong legal statements a lot about Israel and Palestine.
There is no end date on refugee status.

Israel has been refusing to honour UN resolutions calling for them to honour the Right of Return for half a century, but that doesn't mean the claims aren't still ongoing.
 
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Leimonis

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Feb 28, 2020
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What we do know is that they've killed 10,000 people.
Mostly women and children.

Either they're really fucking evil or they are the worst army in the world.
Which do you think?
I think this number is bullshit coming from terrorists
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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But it's NOT a collective punishment.

They're just inevitable collateral damage because HAMAS deliberately locates its military installations in civilian areas to get a reaction from people like you when the IDF comes after those military installations.
The blockade was collective punishment.
A siege where you block all food, water and power is collective punishment.

Those are war crimes and very clear examples, mandrill.
Why would you support war crimes by Israel if you're trying to claim its about war crimes or 'terrorism'?
 
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