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shack

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Kautilya said:
I am talking about the people, not Hamas. The people are disempowered.
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So was I.

And that's how Hamas wants to keep them, disempowered. Citizens have no say in what happens in their own country and have no vote because there's no elections. Hamas has disempowered them.

Kautilya said:
I don't know. Its probably how they are portrayed on TV.
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What does that even mean? Hamas are the ones taking the videos of the victims. Hamas is portraying them and they are always among the rubble of concrete buildings/residences. I don't see tents.

Kautilya said:
In each of those cases you mentioned, the French revolution and the Russian revolution, the people were oppressed by the state they were a part of.

In this case, this is about Israel, a foreign nation, oppressing a neighbouring people. So not the same things.
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Hamas are an oppressive regime, have had no elections for close to 20 years, taking humanitarian aid meant for Gazans for themselves to build tunnels and buy weapons, and then using those weapons to trigger a war for which Gazans (who got their aid stolen) pay the price of suffering and death and that's because Hamas uses them as shields. Those have nothing to do with Israel. and everything to do with Hamas, the ruling entity. Israel are no more than pawns who've been played by Hamas and their terror attack to force a retaliation.

So the analogies are exactly the same. That's why that woman who lost her child blamed Hamas but was told to "shut up". She can see it.

I know you'd like to make it about Israel but Hamas is the oppressor. So we can all agree that the best solution would be if the Gazans raised up against their rulers, Hamas, just like the French and Russian peoples did.
 
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shack

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Kautilya said:
Its funny, because the guy used the yellow star of David, that Jews during the holocaust were supposed to wear. A nuclear weapons state, currently carpet bombing Gaza, acting like they are victims of the holocaust NOW. I get that he was trying to push a narrative of victimhood, but he went too far, and came across as clownish.
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Your interpretation is twisted.

He is not claiming that Israel is a victim seeing as they are clearly kicking Hamas' collective terrorist asses.

He is reminding people of history. He is reminding people that the UN, by not calling out Hamas' terrorist attack of Oct. 7 that undeniably triggered Israel's retaliation and declaration of war, is repeating the history of the world's apathy toward Jews prior to and during the Holocaust.

But I'm pretty sure you knew all that when you were saying it was funny. NOT.
 
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toguy5252

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Kautilya said:
Saying non-racist things in other threads, and showing absolutely no empathy for Palestinian lives even after 10,000+ people, half of them children have died, exposes you toguy5252. You need to introspect.

Why don't we come to a mid ground agreement ?

Hamas are terrorists for attacking unsuspecting civilians. Setter extremists are terrorists for attacking unsuspecting civilians.

But Hamas are BETTER terrorists. Whereas settlers are domestic terrorists. Happy? 😂
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You have obviously not read my posts on this and other threads. Hamas are the de facto government of Gaza. The settlers are criminals and do not represent the government in any way. Hamas embeds itself in schools, hospitals, mosques and anywhere else there are crows if civilians including children.
 
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Butler1000

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Kautilya said:
We don't disagree that Hamas is a terrorist group. We don't disagree that Hamas has overall been negative for the Palestinians. We don't have to argue about that, since we agree.

But it is not just the Hamas that has resulted in the Palestinian's current condition. It is the actions of both Israel and Hamas, that has got the Palestinians to where they are. It takes 2 to tango.

You have to also acknowledge the following truths along with saying Hamas is a terrorist group that has fucked it up for the Palestinians:

- That Israel is a racist and apartheid state, that severely oppresses the Palestinian people, because their end goal is to take the land for themselves. It is in the psyche of the state, as well as the majority of the individuals in Israel. They consider the land to be theirs and the Palestinians to be 'occupiers'.

- Bibi's government is a malicious ultra-right wing psychopathic government, that enabled the Hamas, so that the Palestinian demand would lose credibility.

- Bibi, as well as Israelis, generally believe in collective punishment. So what they are doing in Gaza is a war crime. They are both ineffective and killing scores of people.

These cannot be denied because there is ample proof that I have provided in this very same thread.
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en.m.wikipedia.org

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Its not an apartheid state because over 2 million arab Muslims live peaceably within the borders with the same rights as Jews. If it was an Apartheid state that would not be the case.

What they are are the remnants of a failed war who are generally hated throughout the Arab world for having tried to overthrow govts, supported the Iraq invasion of Kuwait, were involved in the assassination of Anwar Sadat, and despite being Sunni align themselves with Shia Muslims in Iran. Thats why govts in the region won't help them. And why Israel is going to win.
 
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shack

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Frankfooter said:
I've answered multiple times but you seem to think I'm missing something.
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Yeah. You're missing the part where you're supposed to say "I condemn Hamas' attack on Israeli civilians as a terrorist attack." If you've said anything close to that, I'll apologize. Your generalized sweeping statements of violence, terrorism, both sides mean nothing. That's just your dancing.

That's what's missing. And that's why multiplying zero as many times as you want is still zero.
 
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shack

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Kautilya said:
He could have just said it directly, if that was his message.
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It is just as obvious as if he did. Only deniers would dare to pretend otherwise and to think that other people are stupid enough to believe them when they say they thought it meant something else.
 
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Frankfooter

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shack

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Kautilya said:
- That Israel is a racist and apartheid state, that severely oppresses the Palestinian people, because their end goal is to take the land for themselves. It is in the psyche of the state, as well as the majority of the individuals in Israel. They consider the land to be theirs and the Palestinians to be 'occupiers'.

- Bibi's government is a malicious ultra-right wing psychopathic government, that enabled the Hamas, so that the Palestinian demand would lose credibility.

- Bibi, as well as Israelis, generally believe in collective punishment. So what they are doing in Gaza is a war crime. They are both ineffective and killing scores of people.
Click to expand...
Not that I disagree with everything you, but everything you say sounds like justification for the Oct. 7 attack that triggered this current round of violence.

Going after military positions and military leaders is not a war crime. Using human shields to hide behind IS a war crime.
 
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Frankfooter

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shack

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Kautilya said:
It wasn't obvious to me, until you just said it, and am still not sure if that is the interpretation. To me it looked like he was pointing to the violence of October 7, and equating it with the violence of the Holocaust, which cannot be compared.
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I don't buy it but we can agree to disagree.
 
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Butler1000

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Kautilya said:
www.amnesty.org

Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: a cruel system of domination and a crime against humanity

Israeli authorities must be held accountable for committing the crime of apartheid against Palestinians, Amnesty International said today in a damning new report. The investigation details how Israel enforces a system of oppression and domination against the Palestinian people wherever it has...
www.amnesty.org www.amnesty.org
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www.cfr.org

What to Know About the Arab Citizens of Israel

Arabs represent one-fifth of Israel’s population. Systemic discrimination, outbreaks of communal violence, and the broader Israeli-Palestinian conflict continue to strain their ties with Israel’s Jew…
www.cfr.org www.cfr.org

This one is a much more balanced take on things.
 
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shack

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Frankfooter

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shack said:
Not that I disagree with everything you, but everything you say sounds like justification for the Oct. 7 attack that triggered this current round of violence.

Going after military positions and military leaders is not a war crime. Using human shields to hide behind IS a war crime.
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So is lying about Hamas hiding everywhere to justify targeting civilians.
That's a war crime too.

But so is ethnic cleansing.
You think this plan, as reported by CBC, is real?
 
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Frankfooter

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shack said:
That's their interpretation.

Official government policy is documented. I'll accept copies of those Israeli government documents.
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That's like saying you'd only take proof that Jeffrey Dahmer was a mass murderer from his own statements.
 
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Frankfooter

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shack said:
That's their interpretation.

Official government policy is documented. I'll accept copies of those Israeli government documents.
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Like the one with the plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza?
Or more like Plan Dalet?

Was there an official guidebook and policy paper for Auschwitz that you think they should use as a model?
Cuz all genocides had guidebooks and policy papers they referred to during the killngs.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1717303487619281092

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1720215711925043260

Or do you need something official like this?

 
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Frankfooter

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shack said:
Yeah. You're missing the part where you're supposed to say "I condemn Hamas' attack on Israeli civilians as a terrorist attack." If you've said anything close to that, I'll apologize. Your generalized sweeping statements of violence, terrorism, both sides mean nothing. That's just your dancing.

That's what's missing. And that's why multiplying zero as many times as you want is still zero.
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Ah, you want the magic word 'terrorist' applied instead of the legal term 'war crime'.
Of course.
Because if you're just accused of war crimes, which are actual crimes with laws against them, then you only face the law.
But if you use the magic word 'terrorist' right wing racists say that means you can kill anyone and everyone near them or who knows them.

You want me to say the word that you think justifies genocide.
It doesn't.

There will come a time when this is done and people will ask did you stand with humanity or did you back genocide.
No magic word can excuse your support of killing children.
That's on you, buddy.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1720288582244729063
 
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