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Israel at war

toguy5252

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Jun 22, 2009
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Saying non-racist things in other threads, and showing absolutely no empathy for Palestinian lives even after 10,000+ people, half of them children have died, exposes you toguy5252. You need to introspect.

Why don't we come to a mid ground agreement ?

Hamas are terrorists for attacking unsuspecting civilians. Setter extremists are terrorists for attacking unsuspecting civilians.

But Hamas are BETTER terrorists. Whereas settlers are domestic terrorists. Happy? 😂
You have obviously not read my posts on this and other threads. Hamas are the de facto government of Gaza. The settlers are criminals and do not represent the government in any way. Hamas embeds itself in schools, hospitals, mosques and anywhere else there are crows if civilians including children.
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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We don't disagree that Hamas is a terrorist group. We don't disagree that Hamas has overall been negative for the Palestinians. We don't have to argue about that, since we agree.

But it is not just the Hamas that has resulted in the Palestinian's current condition. It is the actions of both Israel and Hamas, that has got the Palestinians to where they are. It takes 2 to tango.

You have to also acknowledge the following truths along with saying Hamas is a terrorist group that has fucked it up for the Palestinians:

- That Israel is a racist and apartheid state, that severely oppresses the Palestinian people, because their end goal is to take the land for themselves. It is in the psyche of the state, as well as the majority of the individuals in Israel. They consider the land to be theirs and the Palestinians to be 'occupiers'.

- Bibi's government is a malicious ultra-right wing psychopathic government, that enabled the Hamas, so that the Palestinian demand would lose credibility.

- Bibi, as well as Israelis, generally believe in collective punishment. So what they are doing in Gaza is a war crime. They are both ineffective and killing scores of people.

These cannot be denied because there is ample proof that I have provided in this very same thread.

Its not an apartheid state because over 2 million arab Muslims live peaceably within the borders with the same rights as Jews. If it was an Apartheid state that would not be the case.

What they are are the remnants of a failed war who are generally hated throughout the Arab world for having tried to overthrow govts, supported the Iraq invasion of Kuwait, were involved in the assassination of Anwar Sadat, and despite being Sunni align themselves with Shia Muslims in Iran. Thats why govts in the region won't help them. And why Israel is going to win.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
I've answered multiple times but you seem to think I'm missing something.
Yeah. You're missing the part where you're supposed to say "I condemn Hamas' attack on Israeli civilians as a terrorist attack." If you've said anything close to that, I'll apologize. Your generalized sweeping statements of violence, terrorism, both sides mean nothing. That's just your dancing.

That's what's missing. And that's why multiplying zero as many times as you want is still zero.
 

shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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He could have just said it directly, if that was his message.
It is just as obvious as if he did. Only deniers would dare to pretend otherwise and to think that other people are stupid enough to believe them when they say they thought it meant something else.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,875
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Toronto
- That Israel is a racist and apartheid state, that severely oppresses the Palestinian people, because their end goal is to take the land for themselves. It is in the psyche of the state, as well as the majority of the individuals in Israel. They consider the land to be theirs and the Palestinians to be 'occupiers'.

- Bibi's government is a malicious ultra-right wing psychopathic government, that enabled the Hamas, so that the Palestinian demand would lose credibility.

- Bibi, as well as Israelis, generally believe in collective punishment. So what they are doing in Gaza is a war crime. They are both ineffective and killing scores of people.
Not that I disagree with everything you, but everything you say sounds like justification for the Oct. 7 attack that triggered this current round of violence.

Going after military positions and military leaders is not a war crime. Using human shields to hide behind IS a war crime.
 

Frankfooter

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shack

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It wasn't obvious to me, until you just said it, and am still not sure if that is the interpretation. To me it looked like he was pointing to the violence of October 7, and equating it with the violence of the Holocaust, which cannot be compared.
I don't buy it but we can agree to disagree.
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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This one is a much more balanced take on things.
 

shack

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Frankfooter

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Not that I disagree with everything you, but everything you say sounds like justification for the Oct. 7 attack that triggered this current round of violence.

Going after military positions and military leaders is not a war crime. Using human shields to hide behind IS a war crime.
So is lying about Hamas hiding everywhere to justify targeting civilians.
That's a war crime too.

But so is ethnic cleansing.
You think this plan, as reported by CBC, is real?
 
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Frankfooter

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That's their interpretation.

Official government policy is documented. I'll accept copies of those Israeli government documents.
That's like saying you'd only take proof that Jeffrey Dahmer was a mass murderer from his own statements.
 
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Frankfooter

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That's their interpretation.

Official government policy is documented. I'll accept copies of those Israeli government documents.
Like the one with the plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza?
Or more like Plan Dalet?

Was there an official guidebook and policy paper for Auschwitz that you think they should use as a model?
Cuz all genocides had guidebooks and policy papers they referred to during the killngs.



Or do you need something official like this?

 
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Frankfooter

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Yeah. You're missing the part where you're supposed to say "I condemn Hamas' attack on Israeli civilians as a terrorist attack." If you've said anything close to that, I'll apologize. Your generalized sweeping statements of violence, terrorism, both sides mean nothing. That's just your dancing.

That's what's missing. And that's why multiplying zero as many times as you want is still zero.
Ah, you want the magic word 'terrorist' applied instead of the legal term 'war crime'.
Of course.
Because if you're just accused of war crimes, which are actual crimes with laws against them, then you only face the law.
But if you use the magic word 'terrorist' right wing racists say that means you can kill anyone and everyone near them or who knows them.

You want me to say the word that you think justifies genocide.
It doesn't.

There will come a time when this is done and people will ask did you stand with humanity or did you back genocide.
No magic word can excuse your support of killing children.
That's on you, buddy.

 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Lay out your peace plan, the people who you would have negotiate it, as in names and why you think they are proper representation on both sides who have the power to set terms in good faith that will be adhered to.

You are really good at bitching, but so far piss poor on offering anything worthwhile.
See.
This is the exact "Something must be done, this is something" logic.
Here you are saying that anything short of a foolproof peace plan requires war crimes.

It's an insane position to take, even for you with your long track record of "If I don't get 100% of what I think is best, I should accept nothing and support things that will make it worse" as an approach.
 
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