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In Fighting Within Conservative Party

lomotil

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Well, if Pierre wants to win the election, he has to take a few chances. Right now, Pierre is running a terrible campaign!!
Trump is neither a Republican nor a Democrat, neither Liberal nor Conservative. He is a fascist who sells retribution and delusion to the vulnerable. Trump wants to annex Canada, the energy sector in particular ASAP and the fastest way is through a Carney majority win to get Danielle Smith to spread separatist legs and let MAGA Trump come in.
Poilievre never had a chance against Trump who is a transactional grifter.
Actually Poilievre should be happy that he will not have to go through the humiliation and angst that Carney as PM will have to go through with Trump going forward if the polls are accurate.

Because you rely on X posts from the Musk‘s dark web, your perception of reality, particularly Canada’s new sudden reality is garbled and underwhelmed.
 

CLOUD 500

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Trump has been the president of the US twice. Pierre has done nothing. It would be wise for Pierre to become friends with Trump, if Pierre wants to win the election!!
I disagree with this. Currently Carney is in the lead because apparently a lot of people seem to think that Poilievre is another Trump. Poilievre need to distance himself from Trump as much as possible. And the US is a vastly different environment then Canada. As we can see on this board, many seem to support Marxist policies.
 
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CLOUD 500

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Fair enough, but what Pierre is doing now, is certainly not working!!
Because Trump changed the game. Everyone is focused on Trump, the media ensures that everyone focuses on Trump. The past 9 years has gone out the window. No one is thinking much anymore about the housing crisis or the cost of living crisis. I always said that the Conservatives should have chosen Jean Charest as their leader. He is a moderate, a Progressive Conservative. He surely would have won. Poilievre is too hard edged I think.
I actually think Carney would be a better PM to deal with Trump, anyway!!
Possibly, but my main concern is the cost of living crisis. The housing crisis and increasing food prices. Rents and groceries are so expensive. I do not think Carney will address that and especially he is part of GFANZ and NetZero. He is for climate change restrictions and taxes. And he has a sleazeball named Mark Wiseman who started the Century Initiative. I can never be for Carney because of that. But he has likeable personality though, he is very calm and collected and reassuring. I despised Trudeau. Trump is a shit disturber, he has been threatening to put tariffs and has not really done so on Canada. I believe he will play this game for the duration of his term.
 

Frankfooter

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I did. I answered. I will repeat, the redistribution of wealth is not creating wealth. You cannot tax a nation into prosperity. You cannot make Canadians have more kids, but having an economically prosperous nation can encourage people to do exactly that. Having carbon taxes like one thing is something that makes everything more expensive. Look at how much taxes we pay, income taxes, then taxes on everything you buy, property taxes. I mean there are taxes after taxes. So the first place to start is to cut the taxes. Why they have to send millions of taxpayers money to foreign countries?? For what like gender studies in other countries? What a colossal waste of money. Why bring in hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers just to give them free houses and monthly paychecks and give the bill to Canadians? Look at all the money wasted. Government spending is out of control. And look at 9 years of Liberals, the result is the greater wealth inequality. The result is all that matters. Trudeau's mass immigration policy for one is designed to make the rich more richer and the poor more poorer. That is the goal of the Century Initiative, it is a corporate lobby group and Carney is for it. Higher taxes affects the middle class the most. Have you not noticed the shrinking middle class since the 50s?
Cutting taxes doesn't create wealth either.
All it does is redistribute wealth to the rich making it harder for the majority to be able to afford to have kids.

If you want less immigration you need more kids and you need to make it so people can afford to have kids.
 

Frankfooter

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Possibly, but my main concern is the cost of living crisis. The housing crisis and increasing food prices. Rents and groceries are so expensive. I do not think Carney will address that and especially he is part of GFANZ and NetZero. He is for climate change restrictions and taxes. And he has a sleazeball named Mark Wiseman who started the Century Initiative. I can never be for Carney because of that. But he has likeable personality though, he is very calm and collected and reassuring. I despised Trudeau. Trump is a shit disturber, he has been threatening to put tariffs and has not really done so on Canada. I believe he will play this game for the duration of his term.
Then why not argue for wage increases, from minimum wages to higher wages for workers so they can afford food and housing.

trump campaigned on lowering the price of eggs.
How is that working out?
 

lomotil

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Trump has been the president of the US twice. Pierre has done nothing. It would be wise for Pierre to become friends with Trump, if Pierre wants to win the election!!
Trump has stated incessantly that Canada is better off to join America and annexation is his intended goal. Trump has interests not
“ friends”
If Poilievre wanted to help Trump annex Canada then Trump would have endorsed him,

Being a Canadian politician and “ friend” of Trump and not support annexation is clearly an oxymoron.
 

CLOUD 500

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Cutting taxes doesn't create wealth either.
All it does is redistribute wealth to the rich making it harder for the majority to be able to afford to have kids.
Lol How did you come to that conclusion? Look at the effect tariffs did? Tariffs = Taxes. Both are the same thing. When you add a tax, sorry to burst your bubble, it is usually the middle class that gets squeezed. Your buddy Carney when he was chairman of Brookefield, was the biggest tax dodger by creating accounts in tax haven countries like Bermuda. Taxes is not good for anyone except the government. It increases the cost of everything. The rich have the means to dodge taxes, but not the average joe. They would not be even a problem for people to afford to have kids if government did not make it the cost of living more expensive. And finally, another tax created by the government is inflation. This is the most hideous form of tax because it is hidden and has no legislation. When government keeps on spending, they got two choices to cover their uncontrolled spending, one is to increase taxes and the other is to increase money supply. Any economist will tell you that increasing money supply decreases the value of the currency. In a nutshell, your purchasing power goes down. But such things benefit the rich and government a lot. Why? Usually rich people have a lot of their money in stocks and real estate which are not affected by inflation in fact they make money off it.

If you want less immigration you need more kids and you need to make it so people can afford to have kids.
True that is why government needs to butt out.
 

CLOUD 500

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Then why not argue for wage increases, from minimum wages to higher wages for workers so they can afford food and housing.
You do realize that when wages increases, businesses will increase their prices. At the end it is the customer that pays. Why not cut taxes instead? Even a 50% cut in income taxes will give a significant increase in spending power. Food and housing costs have been increased by the government. One way is taxes, inflation, and rapid population increase.

trump campaigned on lowering the price of eggs.
How is that working out?
Trump is an idiot. Not sure what his agenda is.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Lol How did you come to that conclusion? Look at the effect tariffs did? Tariffs = Taxes. Both are the same thing. When you add a tax, sorry to burst your bubble, it is usually the middle class that gets squeezed. Your buddy Carney when he was chairman of Brookefield, was the biggest tax dodger by creating accounts in tax haven countries like Bermuda. Taxes is not good for anyone except the government. It increases the cost of everything. The rich have the means to dodge taxes, but not the average joe. They would not be even a problem for people to afford to have kids if government did not make it the cost of living more expensive. And finally, another tax created by the government is inflation. This is the most hideous form of tax because it is hidden and has no legislation. When government keeps on spending, they got two choices to cover their uncontrolled spending, one is to increase taxes and the other is to increase money supply. Any economist will tell you that increasing money supply decreases the value of the currency. In a nutshell, your purchasing power goes down. But such things benefit the rich and government a lot. Why? Usually rich people have a lot of their money in stocks and real estate which are not affected by inflation in fact they make money off it.



True that is why government needs to butt out.
What you propose sounds like the same trickle down effect that Reagan started, Thatcher echoed and has been conservative policy now for 40-50 years.
Its never worked.

Each time there are tax cuts they largely benefit the rich and they are balanced by service cuts the poor and middle class use.
Its never worked.

Why would you think it would work this time?
What would be different?
Can you name 1 place where it has worked?
 

Frankfooter

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You do realize that when wages increases, businesses will increase their prices. At the end it is the customer that pays. Why not cut taxes instead? Even a 50% cut in income taxes will give a significant increase in spending power. Food and housing costs have been increased by the government. One way is taxes, inflation, and rapid population increase.
You do realize that unregulated businesses have merged and are mostly monopolies who can set their prices for high profit regardless. If you're making 30-40k a year you're not paying much tax to begin with, giving them back $1000 won't make them suddenly be able to buy a house or afford kids.

Cutting taxes has never lead to cheaper prices or better wages.

Trump is an idiot. Not sure what his agenda is.
Project 2025
 

lomotil

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Mar 14, 2004
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You do realize that when wages increases, businesses will increase their prices. At the end it is the customer that pays. Why not cut taxes instead? Even a 50% cut in income taxes will give a significant increase in spending power. Food and housing costs have been increased by the government. One way is taxes, inflation, and rapid population increase.



Trump is an idiot. Not sure what his agenda is.
Trump is a lot of things but not an idiot. He is opportunistic and malicious.
His primary goal with respect to Canada is as he said, annexation. The tariffs against Canada function to destabilize the Canadian economy and his endorsement of Carney and Smith is in support of destroying Canadian unity.
 

CLOUD 500

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Trump is a lot of things but not an idiot. He is opportunistic and malicious.
His primary goal with respect to Canada is as he said, annexation. The tariffs against Canada function to destabilize the Canadian economy and his endorsement of Carney and Smith is in support of destroying Canadian unity.
Well I do not know what his true agenda is. But here are the results, the tariffs caused the stock market to crash. Businesses lost lots of money, in the trillions. Even with the revenue collected by tariffs, it will completely be offset by the losses. Trump wants it like the 19th century where there were no income taxes, tariffs generated revenue. But that would not work today because production is so integrated. It would put a lot of businesses to a halt. Almost everything is made in China, many things are made in Mexico and other countries, to make that same thing in USA would cost three times more. Those costs get passed on to the customer. If the prices increases dramatically, people will not buy it. This is why stocks are crashing. Trump is hurting his own people and USA companies. They think they will be better off if things are made in USA. Cars for example, to have cars completely made in USA would cost on average $14,000 more. Nothing is made completely in one country. Each country specializes in something, whether is be resources or talents. Today we live in a global economy vs the 19th century. So in my book I think Trump is an idiot or is completely delusional.
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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Well I do not know what his true agenda is. But here are the results, the tariffs caused the stock market to crash. Businesses lost lots of money, in the trillions. Even with the revenue collected by tariffs, it will completely be offset by the losses. Trump wants it like the 19th century where there were no income taxes, tariffs generated revenue. But that would not work today because production is so integrated. It would put a lot of businesses to a halt. Almost everything is made in China, many things are made in Mexico and other countries, to make that same thing in USA would cost three times more. Those costs get passed on to the customer. If the prices increases dramatically, people will not buy it. This is why stocks are crashing. Trump is hurting his own people and USA companies. They think they will be better off if things are made in USA. Cars for example, to have cars completely made in USA would cost on average $14,000 more. Nothing is made completely in one country. Each country specializes in something, whether is be resources or talents. Today we live in a global economy vs the 19th century. So in my book I think Trump is an idiot or is completely delusional.
Agree that Trump is both an idiot as well as delusional. He was asked today when these manufacturing sectors would start to benefit the consumers and this is what he stated:

But asked on Air Force One on Thursday how long it would take to get American manufacturing to where he'd like to see it, Trump said, "Well, let's say it's a two-year process. You know, they start a plant, and they're big plants."

He continued. "We're giving them approval to also, in many cases, to build the electric facility with it. So, you have electric generation and the plant, and they're big plants. Now, the good news is a lot of money for them, and they can build them fast, but they're still very big plants. I'd always say it would take a year-and-a-half to two years.

Does he not realize that a sizeable number of Americans are living from paycheque to paycheque and this will be a real kick in the groin for them? Two years will be like a lifetime with how the prices and inflation could go out of control!!
 

lomotil

Well-known member
Mar 14, 2004
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Well I do not know what his true agenda is. But here are the results, the tariffs caused the stock market to crash. Businesses lost lots of money, in the trillions. Even with the revenue collected by tariffs, it will completely be offset by the losses. Trump wants it like the 19th century where there were no income taxes, tariffs generated revenue. But that would not work today because production is so integrated. It would put a lot of businesses to a halt. Almost everything is made in China, many things are made in Mexico and other countries, to make that same thing in USA would cost three times more. Those costs get passed on to the customer. If the prices increases dramatically, people will not buy it. This is why stocks are crashing. Trump is hurting his own people and USA companies. They think they will be better off if things are made in USA. Cars for example, to have cars completely made in USA would cost on average $14,000 more. Nothing is made completely in one country. Each country specializes in something, whether is be resources or talents. Today we live in a global economy vs the 19th century. So in my book I think Trump is an idiot or is completely delusional.
American now stands similar to 1933 Germany , at least in the mind’s of the MAGAs. At what point does Trump
“pull a rabbit out of hat “ to satiate his base as the America economy stutters ?
Is it the annexation of Canada, Greenland or the conquest of the Panama Canal because it will not be an economic miracle of rival or economic prosperity anytime soon , if at all. It is the delusional American voters that voted for this delusional figure that is driving this accelerating train wreck.
Canada is guaranteed to suffer very heavy economic privation going forward and very quickly.
 

CLOUD 500

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Jan 10, 2005
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What you propose sounds like the same trickle down effect that Reagan started, Thatcher echoed and has been conservative policy now for 40-50 years.
Its never worked.

Each time there are tax cuts they largely benefit the rich and they are balanced by service cuts the poor and middle class use.
Its never worked.

Why would you think it would work this time?
What would be different?
Can you name 1 place where it has worked?
Lol First Harper and now Ronald Reagan.


^^^^ Looks like the US did very well under Reagan and got out of the stagflation created by Keynesian economics. Canada suffered the same faith under Pierre Trudeau. Do you not see the pattern?

Reagan 1.png Reagan 2.png

In short, Trudeau economics creates stagflation. Another 4 years of Trudeau and we would have ended up in that. Reduced productivity due to high taxes and regulations, uncontrolled government spending, and making energy more expensive with carbon taxes are factors that can cause stagflation. I am certain Carney understands this very well as finance is his line of expertise.
 

Frankfooter

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Lol First Harper and now Ronald Reagan.


^^^^ Looks like the US did very well under Reagan and got out of the stagflation created by Keynesian economics. Canada suffered the same faith under Pierre Trudeau. Do you not see the pattern?

View attachment 424441 View attachment 424442

In short, Trudeau economics creates stagflation. Another 4 years of Trudeau and we would have ended up in that. Reduced productivity due to high taxes and regulations, uncontrolled government spending, and making energy more expensive with carbon taxes are factors that can cause stagflation. I am certain Carney understands this very well as finance is his line of expertise.
Same old, what you described is Reaganomics.
Its never worked.

Take a look at the problem with your attack on immigrants and your belief lowering immigration will fix the housing issue.
Turns out that most of our construction workers right now are immigrants and now we don't have enough of them to build as many houses as we were previously.

 
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CLOUD 500

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Same old, what you described is Reaganomics.
Its never worked.

Take a look at the problem with your attack on immigrants and your belief lowering immigration will fix the housing issue.
Turns out that most of our construction workers right now are immigrants and now we don't have enough of them to build as many houses as we were previously.

You are quoting an article from a far-left source that gets millions of dollars of taxpayers money from the Liberal government, I would take that with a grain of salt. Now that Carney is in the lead, they are going back to Trudeau's mass immigration policy. You used a typical Communist ploy, I am not attacking immigrants. Just saying that uncontrolled immigration = rapid population increase and that has very negative consequences. See look at Germany, they had mass immigration for a long time and they got a housing crisis and so does Australia. All places that had uncontrolled immigration ended up causing great wealth inequality. As for construction workers, here again Trudeau brought in anybody to this country in his desperation to increase the population. Lots of low skilled workers, temporary workers, students, and asylum seekers (this is the worst type of immigrant as most are leechers, they get way too many social benefits and taxpayers get the bill. I hear many hotels in Niagara Falls has been taken by the Federal government to house asylum seekers. I am not saying all are bad, but the majority are fake asylum seekers looking to get the freebies). Do you really think any of these people will work in construction?? Toronto's present unemployment rate is 8.7%? How can there be a shortage of workers? That is lies the Federal government is telling people to justify their mass immigration policy. Look, it is does not get simpler then this, you got the most elementary law of economics, the law of supply and demand. When demand exceeds supply, prices go up.

Now on to your other point, the 1950s saw a population boom also but there were much better able to deal with it. Why? Back then there were much less taxes and regulations. Today there are so much politics, NIMBY, taxes, and regulations. Today in Toronto, about 1/3 of the cost of homes is all taxes, fees, levies, studies, etc.. And all three levels of governments are responsible, but the Federal government is 100% responsible for piling so many people into the country in such a short time. If all these charges were removed along with removing all the regulations, the rents would go down by 1/3 plus more investors would be interested to build multi-family apartments. Currently we are stuck in a population trap. Mass immigration, cost of living going up, less kids being born, more mass immigration, cost of living going up, and so on. With these two things, mass immigration with housing construction not fast enough, what we have is a situation where demand far exceeds supply which is why we got very high prices. Somewhere the cycle has to stop and the fast solution is to cut immigration for a while and let housing balance itself out with demand then we can resume immigration. But there is a difference between responsible immigration and uncontrolled immigration. The Federal government's job is to secure the borders, it is their job to ensure immigration is done in a responsible way. Another consequence of mass immigration is the healthcare crisis. Many people are waiting very long to see a doctor, this is a consequence of rapid population increase. We do not need more people, we got too many already. The GTA is at 7.5 million people, that is way too much.
 
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