How long before Canadians get mad??

[langeweile]

Love it or hate it. Canada and the USA are joined at the hips, and so they should be.
If a continent like Europe, with it's vast differences, manages to unite itself. It should be no problem for the USA and Canada.

All this talk about Canada taking orders from the USA is just nonsense. At the end of the day both parties profit heavily from their cooperation. The shared border and closeness leaves this as the most logical choice.

All this gripping from some Canadians about the US influence, is a fear that is plain silly. We both need each other and we should expand on it.

The next logical step is to create a free trade zone with the rest of the Americas.

 

[Truncador]

The "New" Conservative party is very much on the same page as the Bush Republicans. Canadians hated Mulroney for sucking up to Reagan. The idea that Canadian domestic and foreign policy would be dictated by Washington is enough to drive Ontario and Quebec voters away from these "Neo-Cons".

This is disingenuous. There is a big difference between finding yourself in agreement with somebody and "sucking up" to them. It could just as easily be argued that Chretien was "sucking up" to Franco-Germany or the UN when he refused to endorse Operation Iraqi Freedom. But that argument is seldom heard. Canadian nationalism is often highly selective.

 

[Peeping Tom]

This is the core of the problem. Canadians are only able to take orders, showing time after time that they are incapable of doing otherwise. Hence the numerous attempts by America to set us up as players, instead of obeyors, always fail because of dumbness at our end. Recall the recent episode: America asked us to join as partners in continental defense and got the usual response from Ottawa, resulting in America having to make all the decisions.

All this talk about Canada taking orders from the USA is just nonsense.

 

[Truncador]

What they don't realize, and what the media of course doesn't tell them, is that in Canada social conservatism means things like getting rid of the gun registry, keeping the ban on pot, letting Parliament and not the SC decide on gay marriage, etc.

actually they realize exactly that and thats what most easterners don't like

This strikes me as so much hype with little basis in reality. Eastern Canada is not populated exclusively by campus radicals and the like. For example, 47 per cent of Ontario people are against gay marriage (link). 45 per cent want the gun registry scrapped (link). This means the population is roughly split down the middle, and there are likely many more "closet conservatives" on these and other issues, who privately agree but try to appear politically correct when responding to pollsters.

 

[Quest4Less]

Not just the Conservatives...

It's just the fact that the federal conservative party is full of "can't keep their mouth shut" crazies.

One party doesn't hold a monopoly on "crazies"... remember Carolyn Parish? Just to name an obvious one.

 

[blitz]

Perception is not reality in any real sense. So you are now saying that you yourself don’t believe any of the characterizations you made? If your now saying that the problem is uninformed voters and not facts, you should say that.

I stated that perception is reality and went on to state perceptions of the federal conservative party as it exists today.

How can I be more lucid? How can I better explain the situation?

Why are you trying to figure my mind set when you should be looking to behove said party to adjust their stance to one of keeping with majority Canadians.

 

[blitz]

One party doesn't hold a monopoly on "crazies"... remember Carolyn Parish? Just to name an obvious one.

...and she was outed as a crazy.

Please make a point with merit.

 

[someone]

How can I be more lucid? How can I better explain the situation?

Perhaps if you actually understood the issues you posted on you would have an easier time explaining them.

 

[someone]

The next logical step is to create a free trade zone with the rest of the Americas.

Your right about this but I don’t think it is going to happen any time soon.

 

[impala77]

Love it or hate it. Canada and the USA are joined at the hips, and so they should be.
If a continent like Europe, with it's vast differences, manages to unite itself. It should be no problem for the USA and Canada.

All this talk about Canada taking orders from the USA is just nonsense. At the end of the day both parties profit heavily from their cooperation. The shared border and closeness leaves this as the most logical choice.

All this gripping from some Canadians about the US influence, is a fear that is plain silly. We both need each other and we should expand on it.

The next logical step is to create a free trade zone with the rest of the Americas.

One key difference between Europe and North America is history. Europe has a much older history with clearly entrenched Identity and sense of culture. these ideals will still remain within the European population no matter what other agreements are put in to place. Canada has to constantly keep a balance of what it means to be Canadian as opposed to the alternative which is being sucked in to the massive melting pot that is the United States and disappearing. If the issue is so silly then I guess most American's wouldn't mind trading the Eagle for the beaver or the stars and stripes for the maple leaf?

our proximity to one another should not mean that the two nations must think and act as one on every and all issues, other wise they are not two seperate nations. A strong border, perhaps a mutually beneficial free trade agreement and other economic considerations (many of which are already in place) are great things for both parties. However I also believe it is never a good idea to rely on only one trade partner. There is an entire world of opportunity beyond the borders of North America and canada should be free to explore them without the U.S and vice versa.

 

[langeweile]

our proximity to one another should not mean that the two nations must think and act as one on every and all issues, other wise they are not two seperate nations. A strong border, perhaps a mutually beneficial free trade agreement and other economic considerations (many of which are already in place) are great things for both parties. However I also believe it is never a good idea to rely on only one trade partner. There is an entire world of opportunity beyond the borders of North America and canada should be free to explore them without the U.S and vice versa.

I agree on this.Cooperation shouldn't mean, that one side is loosing it's identity.
The border is more of a symbol, than it is a border in it's true sense. Any attempt to make it in to a "real" border is expensive and stupid.
A coordinated immigration and security policy makes a lot more sense.How about a "common I.D."? Similiar to the European passport?

 

[red]

That is exactly the argument that was used in Europe, when I left in 1985. Canada is not nearly as far gone as Europe, by any stretch of the imagination.

Now is the time to talk and think about it, before Canada get's there.

we did- thats why we have surpluses.

 

[red]

This strikes me as so much hype with little basis in reality. Eastern Canada is not populated exclusively by campus radicals and the like. For example, 47 per cent of Ontario people are against gay marriage (link). 45 per cent want the gun registry scrapped (link). This means the population is roughly split down the middle, and there are likely many more "closet conservatives" on these and other issues, who privately agree but try to appear politically correct when responding to pollsters.

if you were correct then the results of the last four federal elections would have been different

 

[red]

This is disingenuous. There is a big difference between finding yourself in agreement with somebody and "sucking up" to them. It could just as easily be argued that Chretien was "sucking up" to Franco-Germany or the UN when he refused to endorse Operation Iraqi Freedom. But that argument is seldom heard. Canadian nationalism is often highly selective.

true enough

 

[red]

This is the core of the problem. Canadians are only able to take orders, showing time after time that they are incapable of doing otherwise. Hence the numerous attempts by America to set us up as players, instead of obeyors, always fail because of dumbness at our end. Recall the recent episode: America asked us to join as partners in continental defense and got the usual response from Ottawa, resulting in America having to make all the decisions.

speak for yourself. While I disagree with the government, they made a decision not to join the missile defence, and not to believe in WMDs and therefore not go to iraq

 

[red]

One party doesn't hold a monopoly on "crazies"... remember Carolyn Parish? Just to name an obvious one.

true but she wasn't impacting any of your basic rights either

 

[slowpoke]

This strikes me as so much hype with little basis in reality. Eastern Canada is not populated exclusively by campus radicals and the like. For example, 47 per cent of Ontario people are against gay marriage (link). 45 per cent want the gun registry scrapped (link). This means the population is roughly split down the middle, and there are likely many more "closet conservatives" on these and other issues, who privately agree but try to appear politically correct when responding to pollsters.

I guess all those closet conservatives were just having a little fun when they wiped out the PC's (only 2 seats) after Mulroney gave us the GST and embarrassed us by getting caught with his tongue up Reagan's ass.

 

[Truncador]

I guess all those closet conservatives were just having a little fun when they wiped out the PC's (only 2 seats) after Mulroney gave us the GST

Emphasis mine

In any case, the Conservatives make little to no visible effort in exploiting the closet con's and haven't for a long time. It's one of the reasons they keep losing elections. I know these people exist from personal experience, having found that many John and Jane Average types, once they realize they aren't going to be judged negatively, start to admit to me how they really feel about coddling criminals, gay marriage, and other canards of political correctness.

 

[red]

its a secret ballot- how can anyone judge them?

 

[Diode]

thanks for confirming the agenda of alliance

Fine red, status quo it is.
Throw money at everything, Big Government really Cares about us, and everybody deserves a super-duper safety net, cause, they really can't take care of themselves..\

Oh by the way, you mean money grubbing guys have to pay for all our pet projects too!

Thanks for confirming that Liberals are strange cats.