Speculation at best. Witness testimony states that she was unresponsive to the advances/actions of the accused due to her state of intoxication. Inability to say no does not give consent. Ever.
Guilty in Steubenville
- Thread starter Rockslinger
- Start date
He always does. Don't you remember all the wacky shite he kept pulling out his hat about the cops that died in the GTA a couple of years ago? The speculation was off he charts
Ok, except for one lucid comment by kirk that the boys fingered the girl and didn't penetrate her with their penises, I think this all goes back to the "what constitutes rape" thread a while back that discussed the Julian Assange case.
The standard for rape is simple: sexual activity without the willing consent of the person who was raped.
If you fuck your girlfriend while she's asleep, and you two didn't discuss that possibility beforehand, you raped her. If you finger a one night stand while she's still asleep and you didn't discuss it beforehand, you raped her. If you wake a girl up by slipping your morning wood into her mouth without discussing it ahead of time, you raped and you're an idiot because she might bite down.
Going back to another discussion on consent (I think about those "Slut Walks" a while back), yes, this girl could have avoided this situation. That does not make it her fault. The fault lies with the boys, period. That said, she could have avoided this. If a girl can't figure out who the creeps are, then she's too fucking naive to be let out of the house. These two boys were creeps as evidenced by their actions that night and afterwards. Does this make it her fault? Of course not. But she could have, and should have, avoided hanging out with guys like that when she was drinking. Should a woman be safe wearing a skimpy outfit and drinking in a bad part of town? Sure. All of us should be safe with hundred dollar bills sticking out of every pocket, drunk off our ass, in any neighborhood in the world. But we're not. And neither are women. All people need to be aware of their situation and take steps to protect themselves accordingly. You're not at fault if you don't and something bad happens to you, but you're for damn sure stupid. You don't deserve what happens to you, but you did something stupid and put yourself into a bad situation.
Recognition that there are assholes in the world, recognizing those assholes, and avoiding them isn't a controversial idea, unless some people choose to make it so.
Now, considering that the boys "only" fingered her, the one year sentences are reasonable. The extra year for taking the pictures is reasonable. I'm pretty disgusted that so many seem to be sympathetic to these two little shits, though. There's no room for sympathy for them. This wasn't like they were stealing bread so their starving families could survive. They treated an unconscious girl like a finger puppet and laughed about it afterward. Fuck them. They ruined their lives because they were and are assholes.
The standard for rape is simple: sexual activity without the willing consent of the person who was raped.
If you fuck your girlfriend while she's asleep, and you two didn't discuss that possibility beforehand, you raped her. If you finger a one night stand while she's still asleep and you didn't discuss it beforehand, you raped her. If you wake a girl up by slipping your morning wood into her mouth without discussing it ahead of time, you raped and you're an idiot because she might bite down.
Going back to another discussion on consent (I think about those "Slut Walks" a while back), yes, this girl could have avoided this situation. That does not make it her fault. The fault lies with the boys, period. That said, she could have avoided this. If a girl can't figure out who the creeps are, then she's too fucking naive to be let out of the house. These two boys were creeps as evidenced by their actions that night and afterwards. Does this make it her fault? Of course not. But she could have, and should have, avoided hanging out with guys like that when she was drinking. Should a woman be safe wearing a skimpy outfit and drinking in a bad part of town? Sure. All of us should be safe with hundred dollar bills sticking out of every pocket, drunk off our ass, in any neighborhood in the world. But we're not. And neither are women. All people need to be aware of their situation and take steps to protect themselves accordingly. You're not at fault if you don't and something bad happens to you, but you're for damn sure stupid. You don't deserve what happens to you, but you did something stupid and put yourself into a bad situation.
Recognition that there are assholes in the world, recognizing those assholes, and avoiding them isn't a controversial idea, unless some people choose to make it so.
Now, considering that the boys "only" fingered her, the one year sentences are reasonable. The extra year for taking the pictures is reasonable. I'm pretty disgusted that so many seem to be sympathetic to these two little shits, though. There's no room for sympathy for them. This wasn't like they were stealing bread so their starving families could survive. They treated an unconscious girl like a finger puppet and laughed about it afterward. Fuck them. They ruined their lives because they were and are assholes.
This is one reason why some jurisdictions have changed the name of the crime, that the modern elements of the crime are so vastly expanded from what they traditionally were (and that wasn't all that long ago a mere 50 years).
Late to the party as I don't log on as often anymore.
I find the lack of discussion of parenting in the whole issue is appalling. Sure we can talk about bad decisions made by the victim and the boys and the witnesses who didn't come forward and either stop the incident (or help the investigation).
A lot of shit went wrong here. The boys should have fucking known better. People at the party should have intervened.
The boys apologies seemed hollow as they addressed being sorry for posting online and what not. What about the rape?!!!??? Don't bother with an apology if you aren't going acknowledge your biggest crime.
I hate how often it was mentioned that these were football players. Being football players had nothing to do with the incident. It puts a black mark on athletes. I'd be interested to know if athletes are more prone to assault then the general population. If so maybe that needs to be discussed.
I find the lack of discussion of parenting in the whole issue is appalling. Sure we can talk about bad decisions made by the victim and the boys and the witnesses who didn't come forward and either stop the incident (or help the investigation).
A lot of shit went wrong here. The boys should have fucking known better. People at the party should have intervened.
The boys apologies seemed hollow as they addressed being sorry for posting online and what not. What about the rape?!!!??? Don't bother with an apology if you aren't going acknowledge your biggest crime.
I hate how often it was mentioned that these were football players. Being football players had nothing to do with the incident. It puts a black mark on athletes. I'd be interested to know if athletes are more prone to assault then the general population. If so maybe that needs to be discussed.
Quick google found one stat where 3% of school population (athletes) were responsible for 19% of rapes.
Athletes led in gang rapes second to frats.
Maybe that discussion needs to be had.
Athletes led in gang rapes second to frats.
Maybe that discussion needs to be had.
The reason their affiliation with the football team keeps being mentioned is two-fold:
1.) It seems to go hand in hand with the entitled attitude they exhibited online after the incident.
2.) There is some indication that nothing would have been done about this case if the hackers hadn't gotten involved. The reason quoted most often for that lack of action on the part of the authorities is their affiliation with the football team.
1.) It seems to go hand in hand with the entitled attitude they exhibited online after the incident.
2.) There is some indication that nothing would have been done about this case if the hackers hadn't gotten involved. The reason quoted most often for that lack of action on the part of the authorities is their affiliation with the football team.
There is another case involving 2 football players allegedly raping a 13 year old girl. "EDIT: This case is in Torrington, Conneticut." One would think that a football hero wouldn't have to resort to rape to get sex.
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The smug attitudes could have been by any asshole rapist..... it's not special to football or sports.
As for lack of action, the real issue should be on those that chose to do nothing.
It could have just as easily been a hockey town in Canada. Or some affluent town in New England with boys from a private school. Or some cops or men in the military etc.
Hell it could have been priests.
We've seen this sort of inaction time and again in many different contexts so my point is we should be looking at the attitude where condoning or not activly punishing rape is permitted and look past what past time these kids were into.
I mean is that the only possible source of their misogyny? How about the general culture that they grew up in? To single out football is to overlook (to everone's detriment) the many faces/factors where a case like this can still happen.
I think when bad things happen people would rather try and find what they think makes the criminal different to make themselves feel better..... be it oh he's crazy, plays football, plays violent video games , listens to heavy metal, does drugs, drinks, comes from a broken home, is poor, is not my ethnicity..... whatever they can find.
All of thoes differences just distract from the real issues. Which is that these teens did not "know better"
I was laughing the otehr day some teen was talking way too loud on his phone beside me and he was talking about how he answered yes to using illegal drugs and having fought tickets for being 40 over during a job interview. He was so matter of fact about it. If I were him my conversation would have been.... "I think i just blew the interview."
All of thoes differences just distract from the real issues. Which is that these teens did not "know better"
I was laughing the otehr day some teen was talking way too loud on his phone beside me and he was talking about how he answered yes to using illegal drugs and having fought tickets for being 40 over during a job interview. He was so matter of fact about it. If I were him my conversation would have been.... "I think i just blew the interview."
Some hockey coaches (e.g. Graham James) and that Maple Leaf Garden assistant equipment manager have been among the worse offenders.
Good point.
All shapes and sizes as they say.
I have a bias as I feel organized sports is largely a good thing and lots of kids play sports and grow up to be completely normal people. Which is why the association irks me.
Man who pointed laser at aircraft lands a 30-month prison sentence
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/us/california-laser-sentence/index.html#comment-842230878
This kid could potentially do more jail time than the players who raped this girl. Not saying what this kid was nothing... just amazed how the US justice system is so dysfunctional.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/us/california-laser-sentence/index.html#comment-842230878
This kid could potentially do more jail time than the players who raped this girl. Not saying what this kid was nothing... just amazed how the US justice system is so dysfunctional.
Also, heard that an Auburn student got 2 years prison time for poisoning 2 trees. Guess trees are more important than 16 year old girls in the U.S.
It might depend whose trees they were.
Old joke;
A young boy was crying on his front porch of his cottage when his mother asked him why. He said that his dad had spanked him for pushing over the outhouse, even though the boy had admitted he's done it. He then quickly added that George Washington told his father that he'd chopped down the cherry tree and didn't get punished. His mother smile softly and said that she was pretty sure that George Washington's father wasn't sitting in the cherry tree at the time.
You would be wrong, in many ways.
It was an Alabama fan, approximately 60 years old, who poisoned the 2 trees.
An Alabama man pleaded guilty Friday to poisoning oak trees that drew generations of Auburn University football fans celebrating victories, officials said.
Harvey Updyke will serve at least six months of a three-year sentence for criminal damage to an agricultural facility, a felony, Lee County District Attorney Robbie Treese said in a statement.
The plea brings to an end the criminal proceedings in an act in 2010 that outraged Auburn fans and others upset that the trees at Toomer’s Corner were poisoned.
Upon release, Updyke will be under five years of supervised probation, which includes a 7 p.m. curfew, a ban on attending any collegiate event and a ban on stepping on Auburn University property. Updyke, who is in his mid-60s, also will be assessed restitution, Treese said.
“Whether or not Mr. Updyke can manage to stay on probation is entirely up to him,” the prosecutor said in a statement. “Despite the destruction he has caused, no one is capable of diminishing the spirit of our community.”
Auburn police two years ago arrested Updyke for allegedly dousing the landmark trees on the edge of the Auburn campus with herbicide so potent that agronomists said they had little to no chance of survival.
Authorities first learned of the herbicide after a caller who identified himself as “Al from Dadeville” phoned into a Birmingham, Alabama, radio talk show, saying he had poisoned the renowned oaks after Auburn won a contentious November 2010 football game against the University of Alabama. “Al” ended the call with “Roll Damn Tide,” a battle cry for the University of Alabama.
Fans typically gathered around the trees after wins, draping them with toilet paper. According to reports, Auburn last month announced the historic trees could not be saved.
Treese said the plea will allow his office to tend to violent felonies and save the county extensive costs associated with a trial. “I could not in good conscience justify financing a three-week trial merely to arrive at no better a resolution.”
http://wtvr.com/2013/03/23/alabama-man-pleads-guilty-for-poisoning-auburn-oak-trees/
