Guantanamo Khadr interrogations

[lookingforitallthetime]

NATO disagrees with you:

http://www.nato.int/ISAF/topics/mandate/index.html

That link lists the United Nations resolutions authorizing ISAF's activities in Afghanistan. ISAF was authorized by the United Nations specifically because of the belligerent acts by the Taliban against foreign states.

Had the Taliban stuck to abusing its own people and not people in foreign countries then China and Russia would not have supported the resolutions authorizing ISAF.

Whatever the reason, NATO forces are doing the planning and execution of military operations. Since Canada is a member of the alliance, we are bound to be there. This was my point in response to a post blaming past and present Canadian governments for our involvement.

I believe if you were to ask a Canadian soldier, he/she would tell you he/she is there to help the Afghan people and help protect us from terrorism. Good enough for me.

Back to the topic. It's important that our government becomes involved in cases like Khadr's. I feel this way not because of any sense of personal loyalty to Khadr, but because I could find myself in a similar situation where government support is required. Considering the FBI's terror list has over 1 million names, I may already be a terrorist.

What you and others fail to realize is when any of us are stripped of basic rights and freedoms, we are all stripped of them. We are all susceptible to the same treatment.

 

[red]

"The power of the executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious, and the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist." Prime Minister Winston Churchill.(Thanks to UT for providing quote)

"The Habeas Corpus secures every man here, alien or citizen, against everything which is not law, whatever shape it may assume." --Thomas Jefferson to A. H. Rowan, 1798. ME 10:61

"Freedom of the person under the protection of the habeas corpus I deem [one of the] essential principles of our government." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural Address, 1801. ME 3:322

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

"The power of the executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious, and the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist." Prime Minister Winston Churchill.(Thanks to UT for providing quote)

"The Habeas Corpus secures every man here, alien or citizen, against everything which is not law, whatever shape it may assume." --Thomas Jefferson to A. H. Rowan, 1798. ME 10:61

"Freedom of the person under the protection of the habeas corpus I deem [one of the] essential principles of our government." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural Address, 1801. ME 3:322

Well done.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

he was speaking about people when they are in the United States, and when they commit a crime inside the united states. It's a wonderful discussion if the crime committed happened in the US, which is didn't.

So a flowery nice bunch of quotes that just don't apply.

You should read the quotes again, they fit perfectly. Churchill's quote was particularly poignant.

 

[red]

he was speaking about people when they are in the United States, and when they commit a crime inside the united states. It's a wonderful discussion if the crime committed happened in the US, which is didn't.

So a flowery nice bunch of quotes that just don't apply.

really.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." --Declaration of Independence as originally written by Thomas Jefferson, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315


He is talking about a fundamental human right.

 

[red]

They fit perfectly IF he was a US citizen, or if he was on US soil at the time of the event. They don't apply.

Should US based Habeas Corpus apply to me when I get a parking ticket downtown Toronto? Think about it.

habeas corpus isn't a US legal invention. If you were arrested in toronto for a traffic ticket you have the right to appear before a judge.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

They fit perfectly IF he was a US citizen, or if he was on US soil at the time of the event. They don't apply.

Should US based Habeas Corpus apply to me when I get a parking ticket downtown Toronto? Think about it.

You're getting hung up on geography and missing the point. Jefferson didn't make that mistake.

I guess it's safe to assume you're intellect is not of the calibre of Thomas Jefferson's.

Go figure.

 

[red]

ISAF is entitled, in fact required, to set up and run tribunals to mete out justice in the territory it controls.
.

where is the source for this? i can't see it in the UN mandate

 

[fuji]

where is the source for this? i can't see it in the UN mandate

Hague Convention IV, 1907. The Geneva Conventions also separately require the creation of a "competent tribunal" to determine the status of persons detained.

 

[Enonymouse]

Well, Lancs, most canadians are against you then, 'cause they are sure not with you.

maybe you should go back to England.

Buddy ...I think you'll find most Canadians are against you.

NO one i know has any sympathy for the first family of Terrorism - the Khadrs. Chretian and his band of idiots made the first mistake when they went and freed the father and he went back to Pakistan and enrolled in Terrorism. The fact that he and his other son were killed there fighting for the bad guys tells me Omar is a terrorist also. The wife and sister and the kid in the wheelchair should be sent back to Pakistan.

They use their "canadian" passport as a tool. It allows us the tax payer to fund them...and thier hate.

Export their terrorist asses out of this country ...we don't need them. And NO CANADIAN anywhere should support them. They have ties to Al Queda and Bin himself. Pure terrorists...pure and simple. Get rid of them all.

 

[red]

Buddy ...I think you'll find most Canadians are against you.

NO one i know has any sympathy for the first family of Terrorism - the Khadrs. Chretian and his band of idiots made the first mistake when they went and freed the father and he went back to Pakistan and enrolled in Terrorism. The fact that he and his other son were killed there fighting for the bad guys tells me Omar is a terrorist also. The wife and sister and the kid in the wheelchair should be sent back to Pakistan.

They use their "canadian" passport as a tool. It allows us the tax payer to fund them...and thier hate.

Export their terrorist asses out of this country ...we don't need them. And NO CANADIAN anywhere should support them. They have ties to Al Queda and Bin himself. Pure terrorists...pure and simple. Get rid of them all.

not really.

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - Adults in Canada are clearly divided on the pending legal process of Omar Khadr, according to a poll by Angus Reid Strategies. 38 per cent of respondents would leave Khadr to face trial by military commission in Guantanamo Bay, while 37 per cent demand Khadr’s repatriation to face due process under Canadian Law. .

you don't know the facts. let these allegations be proven in a court of law. we don't convict people in this country without a fair trial. if you don't believe in that you are no canadian

 

[red]

Hague Convention IV, 1907. The Geneva Conventions also separately require the creation of a "competent tribunal" to determine the status of persons detained.

no you said

ISAF is entitled, in fact required, to set up and run tribunals to mete out justice in the territory it controls.
.

their legal obligations and powers arise from the UN mandate. So where did the UN "entitle them, in fact require" tribunals? by the way what were the US troops doing outside their mandated area?

ISAF was authorized by the UN on dec 21, 2001 to act in precincts of Kabul. For almost two years, the ISAF mandate did not go beyond the boundaries of Kabul. The responsibility for security throughout the whole of Afghanistan was to be given to the newly-constituted Afghan National Army. However, on October 13, 2003, the Security Council voted unanimously to expand the ISAF mission beyond Kabul (Resolution 1510).

Omar Khadr was captured on July 27, 2002 near khost, Afghanistan (about 150 km from kabul).

How were the US troops acting legally (as the "police") when they were outside their mandated area?

 

[Enonymouse]

I was born here...raised here and have lived here for 42 years ...buddy.

RED...is that your name? RED for COMMUNIST RED?

A Canadian would not have brought his family to Afganistan to fight a war against the US. He isn't Canadian and he shouldn't be brought back to Canada. Since when did Canada become a host for terrorists who need someone to live?

 

[red]

I was born here...raised here and have lived here for 42 years ...buddy.

RED...is that your name? RED for COMMUNIST RED?

A Canadian would not have brought his family to Afganistan to fight a war against the US. He isn't Canadian and he shouldn't be brought back to Canada. Since when did Canada become a host for terrorists who need someone to live?

yes my name is communist red. very good. are you a detective in real life?

Omar Khadr was a child. he had no choice but to go where his family took him. He is Canadian by birth and under the law. same as you. I would suggest you get used to that idea.

if he committed a crime, then let it be proven in court. why are you afraid to let it come to a trial?

 

[Enonymouse]

Because it's gonna cost us millions to bring that peice of shit back to this country. And then the f'n liberals will bend over and hand this garbage family millions.

He was a child? Bull. He was trained to kill....and should not have been there.

Tell me why him and his family of "Canadians" were over there fighting for the Taliban. Give me a good reason. Fighting for thier "home-land"? Bullshit. Fighting for Al Queda and the Taliban - a band of terrorists who caused 9/11 and sawed innocent peoples heads off on video. We don't need this type of "Canadian". We never will need this type of Canadian.

BUT ...the NDP and the LIBERALS want this type of Canadian back. Who the hell knows why. He should have his head sawed off on video.....that would be justice. I'll pay for the saw.

 

[fuji]

their legal obligations and powers arise from the UN mandate.

Their legitimate control of the territory arises from the UN Mandate, and as per the Hague Convention, having legitimate control over a territory comes with obligations requiring the creation of the tribunals and the imposition of the rule of law.

 

[red]

Their legitimate control of the territory arises from the UN Mandate, and as per the Hague Convention, having legitimate control over a territory comes with obligations requiring the creation of the tribunals and the imposition of the rule of law.

no they were acting as the security force for the afghan gov't. also their mandate was limited to kabul. they did not take over the country and were not at war with afghanistan. so they don't have the authority you now claim for them.

 

[red]

Because it's gonna cost us millions to bring that peice of shit back to this country. And then the f'n liberals will bend over and hand this garbage family millions.

He was a child? Bull. He was trained to kill....and should not have been there.

Tell me why him and his family of "Canadians" were over there fighting for the Taliban. Give me a good reason. Fighting for thier "home-land"? Bullshit. Fighting for Al Queda and the Taliban - a band of terrorists who caused 9/11 and sawed innocent peoples heads off on video. We don't need this type of "Canadian". We never will need this type of Canadian.

BUT ...the NDP and the LIBERALS want this type of Canadian back. Who the hell knows why. He should have his head sawed off on video.....that would be justice. I'll pay for the saw.

thanks for the political commercial. I am glad to see you demonstrate your utter disregard for human rights, the rule of law, canadians, spelling and human life - all in one post.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

Safe to say that Jefferson also had a hand in the writing of the second amendment, which has taken about 250 years to figure out.

I have more than enough brains to know that he was talking about the US, and enough brains to know that, no matter how much some people would like, the US constitution doesn't apply outside of it's borders.

I'm smart enough to be able to find the lines on the map. You might want to go back and take that class again, you must have had an epic fail on that one.

For a while there I thought you were pulling my chain. Now I can see you just don't get it.

Jefferson was one of the founding fathers of a nation built on the principles of it's government securing liberty, justice and basic human rights for all of it's citizens. Of course the U.S. Constitution applies to U.S. citizens, no one is arguing that. Had Jefferson lived in China he would have had the same beliefs there. It's only geography.

You made the comment that red's Jefferson quotes were irrelevent to the issue at hand. You are wrong.

Jefferson would not be pleased to see what has become of his vision of a great state. What once stood as a beacon for liberty is slowly becoming another poster child for totalitarianism. Jefferson would not be pleased with the situation in Gitmo either.

Since you're so adept at finding lines, perhaps you could let us know where the line starts and ends on the erosion of civil liberties in the name of security. This issue isn't as much about Khadr and his family as it is about you, me and the rest of us.

Once you come to the realization that letting basic human rights violations go unchecked is a slippery slope, it will all make sense to you. Until then, carry on with your head up your ass if you want.

 

[Enonymouse]

thanks for the political commercial. I am glad to see you demonstrate your utter disregard for human rights, the rule of law, canadians, spelling and human life - all in one post.

I'm good at that. I disregard the rights or terrorists.

In my view..this family are by no means Canadians...and should never be called Canadians. Canadians weren't fighting for the Taliban. Never were...never will be.

I disregard the lives of terrorists. My brother was in the Canadian Army..he's seen it all. I know the truth.

So yeah...I've done well haven't I.