Guantanamo Khadr interrogations

[red]

Again, you miss the two most important points, (A) There is no proof that that the US alone or any specific US court has jurisdiction for any pleadings to be made to, and (B) Khadr is a Canadian by paperwork only, he is a resident of Pakistand and Afghanistan, and has been for 90% of his natural life. Let them do it.

Harper is (for once) right by doing nothing.

if A is correct then why are they putting him in front of a tribunal? you know this isn't correct. he can be tried under the US federal system, the afghan courts or the world court.

he has spent 25% of his life in gitmo. a US military base. the other 75% of his life was spent primarily between pakistan and canada.


He was born in canada and is therefore a canadian citizen. you may not like it- you have every right to work to change the law. good luck

 

[red]

They should have just left him there to suffer and hopefully die from his injuries.

A supposed Canadian who goes to Afghanistan to fight with the Taliban against NATO gets absolutely no sympathy from me.

its not about sympathy. its about human rights to a fair trial and the duty of the canadian gov't to support its citizens

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

This is interesting since you could look at his situation in only two different ways:

1) a POW: Then leave him in a POW camp until the 'war' is over. No trial or lawyers needed

2) A person who committed a belligerent act: (aka spy! or a partisan): You can deal with then however you like, including execution.

What a fantastic grasp of the issue. Thank you for condensing all of the subtle nuances and complexities into 2 options.

I take it in option 2, you're not opposed to skipping the messy details of a trial and proceeding directly to the execution?

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

its not about sympathy. its about human rights to a fair trial and the duty of the canadian gov't to support its citizens

It is amazing to me that you have to remind people of this little fact.

The right to a fair trial is the cornerstone of our justice system. Take this away and it all comes crumbling down. As you can see, my concern for the Khadr case is selfish in nature.

 

[Malibook]

its not about sympathy. its about human rights to a fair trial and the duty of the canadian gov't to support its citizens

There was no obligation to save his ass plus whatever he allegedly did did not happen in Canada.

They should have just left him there to either die from his injuries or let the local Afghan authorities deal with him.
He is much better off alive and where he is.

His brother, a supposed Canadian, went to Afghanistan to fight with the Taliban, potentially killing Canadians.
He gets wounded and then comes to Canada for free medical care.
They got his dad but it's too bad they didn't get him too and the rest of their fucked up family.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/khadr/family/canada.html
A look at the activities of the extended Khadr family, details of their life with Osama bin Laden, and the uproar in Canada after the mother and brother - both Al Qaeda sympathizers - returned there in April 2004 to seek medical help for the son.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

There was no obligation to save his ass plus whatever he allegedly did did not happen in Canada.

They should have just left him there to either die from his injuries or let the local Afghan authorities deal with him.
He is much better off alive and where he is.

His brother, a supposed Canadian, went to Afghanistan to fight with the Taliban, potentially killing Canadians.
He gets wounded and then comes to Canada for free medical care.
They got his dad but it's too bad they didn't get him too and the rest of their fucked up family.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/khadr/family/canada.html
A look at the activities of the extended Khadr family, details of their life with Osama bin Laden, and the uproar in Canada after the mother and brother - both Al Qaeda sympathizers - returned there in April 2004 to seek medical help for the son.

Canadians are fighting the Taliban in the name of human rights and justice. They are fighting (and dying) to not only help bring human rights to an oppressed people, but to protect the basic rights and freedoms of Canadian citizens. All citizens.

There can be no degrees of citizenship.

I am proud and thankful for the efforts of Canadians fighting for these causes. We should do everything we can to make their job easier. Everything short of denying basic rights to any individual.

Khadr should be extradited (as long as the U.S. government is content to deny basic freedoms), put on trial and, if found guilty, punished.

 

[red]

Canadians are fighting the Taliban in the name of human rights and justice. They are fighting (and dying) to not only help bring human rights to an oppressed people, but to protect the basic rights and freedoms of Canadian citizens. All citizens.

There can be no degrees of citizenship.

I am proud and thankful for the efforts of Canadians fighting for these causes. We should do everything we can to make their job easier. Everything short of denying basic rights to any individual.

thats right.

 

[Malibook]

Canadians who commit crimes in other countries do not have the right to demand that justice be served in Canada.

One who claims to be Canadian and goes abroad to fight and kill Canadian troops should be deported and/or tried for treason.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

One who claims to be Canadian and goes abroad to fight and kill Canadian troops should be <snip> tried for treason.

Agreed.

Maybe we're not too far apart. How important is habeas corpus to you?

 

[Corey]

Canadians are fighting the Taliban in the name of human rights and justice. They are fighting (and dying) to not only help bring human rights to an oppressed people, but to protect the basic rights and freedoms of Canadian citizens. All citizens.

I agree with the above but after reading Eric Margolis' columns in the Sun, I've come to the conclusion that our governing politicians, both Liberals and Tories, have sent our soldiers there for geopolitical reasons, i.e. oil.

You can find his most recent column here: http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Margolis_Eric/2008/07/20/6209056-sun.php

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

come to the conclusion that our governing politicians, both Liberals and Tories, have sent our soldiers there for geopolitical reasons, i.e. oil.

You can find his most recent column here: http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Margolis_Eric/2008/07/20/6209056-sun.php

The Afghan mission is a NATO mission. Therefore, Canada is treaty bound to participate.

 

[Malibook]

Here is a respectable Khadr worthy of being a Canadian.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/khadr/interviews/khadr.html
Abdurahman Khadr
Abdurahman describes himself as the "black sheep" of the Khadr family. He separated from his family following the Sept. 11 attacks and was captured by the Northern Alliance multiple times before being handed over to the U.S. in November 2001. Abdurahman says at that point he began working for the CIA, providing intelligence on Al Qaeda members and guesthouses in Kabul.

 

[Malibook]

Agreed.

Maybe we're not too far apart. How important is habeas corpus to you?

Seems like a fundamental human right to me.

However, after 911, I would be inclined to cut the US a bit of slack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus
Main article: Habeas corpus in the United States
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.

 

[red]

Canadians who commit crimes in other countries do not have the right to demand that justice be served in Canada.

One who claims to be Canadian and goes abroad to fight and kill Canadian troops should be deported and/or tried for treason.

the important points here are committed and tried

 

[red]

Seems like a fundamental human right to me.

However, after 911, I would be inclined to cut the US a bit of slack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus
Main article: Habeas corpus in the United States
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.

suspended not repealed. a suspension is supposed to be for a short term emergency.

 

[dcbogey]

The Court ruling you cite was in 2006. The Congress, however, took care of this objection by the Court (basically that it was an overreaching of Executive Authority - in that the action was lawmaking which is a function of the Legislative Branch), by passing appropriate legislation.

And that legislation was declared unconstitutional last month.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4123181.ece

It is curious why none of the detainees have used this ruling, unless I've missed something.

 

[dcbogey]

Seems like a fundamental human right to me.

However, after 911, I would be inclined to cut the US a bit of slack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus
Main article: Habeas corpus in the United States
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.

The US supreme court seems to disagree.

 

[Aardvark154]

And that legislation was declared unconstitutional last month.

That’s not really an accurate statement. Only section seven of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 was held unconstitutional in Boumediene v. Bush. The U.S. Supreme Court did not rule the Commissions process unconstitutional, rather it said that detainees have the right to challenge their detention in U.S. District Court.

Of course, as the minority pointed out what is the court going to do when POW's ask for the same right?

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

Seems like a fundamental human right to me.

However, after 911, I would be inclined to cut the US a bit of slack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus
Main article: Habeas corpus in the United States
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.

A weak argument. Giving these detainees a fair and speedy trial will in no way jeopordize public safety.

Since we're being so loose with our freedoms, what other fundamental human rights are you prepared to give up in the name of security?

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

I'm not doing anything wrong, so my fundemental rights aren't at risk. Khadr pretty much forfeited his rights when he decides to be a terrorist.

I see. You're not doing anything wrong so you have nothing to worry about. How naive.

You fail to realize human rights are never fully appreciated until they're taken from you. You'll be okay though, you're not doing anything wrong.

Innocent until proven guilty is apparently another concept foreign to you.

There is a positive with your attitude though. If you remain honest, you will probably never have to endure jury duty.