End the Lockdown

[Malibuk]

Ontario had another 511 new known cases yesterday.

After all this time testing, they have only tested 2% of the population.
This is a totally insignificant sample size, especially over such a long period of time.

Plus they are focusing on those who are most likely to be sick.
This is a flawed sampling methodology and we may never see 14 days of declines.
They need to have broad diverse randomized testing.
They need to do comprehensive anti-body testing.

This lockdown has already gone on for several incubation periods so the effects have long been realized and it doesn`t make sense to think we should continually see better results from the exact same measures.
It`s possible that these measures were sufficient or not enough and more will need to be done.
It is time to find out.
If we wait until we have all the answers, the economic depression will kill way more than this virus ever could.

 

[doggystyle99]

Ontario had another 511 new known cases yesterday.

After all this time testing, they have only tested 2% of the population.
This is a totally insignificant sample size, especially over such a long period of time.

Plus they are focusing on those who are most likely to be sick.
This is a flawed sampling methodology and we may never see 14 days of declines.
They need to have broad diverse randomized testing.
They need to do comprehensive anti-body testing.

This lockdown has already gone on for several incubation periods so the effects have long been realized and it doesn`t make sense to think we should continually see better results from the exact same measures.
It`s possible that these measures were sufficient or not enough and more will need to be done.
It is time to find out.

This idea of ending lockdowns now without proper measures is the most ridiculous thing you post.
What Ontario and every province needs to do is see a 14 day significant decline in the number of new daily cases, as well we need to have strict tracing put in place prior to opening businesses and have already taken this measures with almost if not all of the cases prior to opening businesses. As well as the tracing measures being in place after businesses are allowed to open we should also have strict health measures in place if we want to be successful at limiting the spread of the virus to the lowest number possible after businesses open.

 

[surferboy]

This idea of ending lockdowns now without proper measures is the most ridiculous thing you post.
What Ontario and every province needs to do is see a 14 day significant decline in the number of new daily cases, as well we need to have strict tracing put in place prior to opening businesses and have already taken this measures with almost if not all of the cases prior to opening businesses. As well as the tracing measures being in place after businesses are allowed to open we should also have strict health measures in place if we want to be successful at limiting the spread of the virus to the lowest number possible after businesses open.

In a perfect world DS 14 days would be great, but unfortunately the gov can only print so much money & people need food & a roof over their head. Same as in the US big business & small business's alike are putting pressure on the gov to get things moving. Nobody wants more casualties but we don't want a depression either. If there's outbreaks (& I'm sure there will be many) hopefully the government can isolate the cases & do the appropriate tracing. There's thousands of cops & civil servants on the payroll doing minimal or no work, this would be a great use of their time.

 

[Mandel]

What Ontario and every province needs to do is see a 14 day significant decline in the number of new daily cases,

I am not understanding this point. Herd immunity depends on people testing positive. We could test a million people next week and find 10% are positive and the new cases would jump, but that doesn't mean the health risk increased.

I think the focus should be on hospitalization and death rates.

 

[canada-man]

This idea of ending lockdowns now without proper measures is the most ridiculous thing you post.
What Ontario and every province needs to do is see a 14 day significant decline in the number of new daily cases, as well we need to have strict tracing put in place prior to opening businesses and have already taken this measures with almost if not all of the cases prior to opening businesses. As well as the tracing measures being in place after businesses are allowed to open we should also have strict health measures in place if we want to be successful at limiting the spread of the virus to the lowest number possible after businesses open.

lock downs is causing business to fail when will you lockdown supported get back to the real world. more and people cannot afford to pay rent.

 

[Malibuk]

lock downs is causing business to fail when will you lockdown supported get back to the real world. more and people cannot afford to pay rent.

 

[doggystyle99]

In a perfect world DS 14 days would be great, but unfortunately the gov can only print so much money & people need food & a roof over their head. Same as in the US big business & small business's alike are putting pressure on the gov to get things moving. Nobody wants more casualties but we don't want a depression either. If there's outbreaks (& I'm sure there will be many) hopefully the government can isolate the cases & do the appropriate tracing. There's thousands of cops & civil servants on the payroll doing minimal or no work, this would be a great use of their time.

Without having a significant 14 day decline in the number of new daily cases which is what the facts tell us is important in being able to fight the Coronavirus we risk having just as bad or even more cases and further outbreak waves in the long run. Maybe some are OK with that but I certainly am not because in the long run the effects of more outbreak waves would have a far worse effect on businesses than keeping them closed for an extra few days or even extra few weeks. I certainly do not want to open my business and then be forced to either shutdown or having to shutdown due to further large waves of confirmed cases and no clients.
I operate a viable small business, I also have a lot of friends and family who operate small to medium sized very successful businesses as well in the GTA, and almost all that are shutdown except a couple are in agreement with that sentiment. I also have family members in the USA who operate very successful regional businesses/firms with one operating a national restaurant chain of 100+ locations and regardless of some states (Georgia, Tennessee) allowing them to reopen they've chosen to keep a lot of their locations closed for now as they feel the responsibility of not putting the communities at risk.

Not a single one of the people I know is pressuring the government to open things up. I fully do believe the large corporations are the ones who are pressuring the government mostly but there are some smaller businesses who are struggling to make things work not only because of this but they weren't viable businesses prior to this. I certainly hope the federal government finds ways to help the viable small to medium sized businesses out more.

 

[Malibuk]

 

[G.D. Gentleman]

Without having a significant 14 day decline in the number of new daily cases which is what the facts tell us is important in being able to fight the Coronavirus we risk having just as bad or even more cases and further outbreak waves in the long run. Maybe some are OK with that but I certainly am not because in the long run the effects of more outbreak waves would have a far worse effect on businesses than keeping them closed for an extra few days or even extra few weeks. I certainly do not want to open my business and then be forced to either shutdown or having to shutdown due to further large waves of confirmed cases and no clients.
I operate a viable small business, I also have a lot of friends and family who operate small to medium sized very successful businesses as well in the GTA, and almost all that are shutdown except a couple are in agreement with that sentiment. I also have family members in the USA who operate very successful regional businesses/firms with one operating a national restaurant chain of 100+ locations and regardless of some states (Georgia, Tennessee) allowing them to reopen they've chosen to keep a lot of their locations closed for now as they feel the responsibility of not putting the communities at risk.

Not a single one of the people I know is pressuring the government to open things up. I fully do believe the large corporations are the ones who are pressuring the government mostly but there are some smaller businesses who are struggling to make things work not only because of this but they weren't viable businesses prior to this. I certainly hope the federal government finds ways to help the viable small to medium sized businesses out more.

There is one variable you don't mention in your repeated suggestion of 14 day decline, so I will ask:

How many daily/weekly total tests supporting a 14 day decline would you consider trustworthy? 100,000 a day? 1,000,000 a week? Speaking of Ontario specifically.

And a related question - how soon would you estimate, based on your research, Ontario will reach the testing levels per day/week that properly support a trustworthy 14 day decline?

 

[doggystyle99]

There is one variable you don't mention in your repeated suggestion of 14 day decline, so I will ask:

How many daily/weekly total tests supporting a 14 day decline would you consider trustworthy? 100,000 a day? 1,000,000 a week? Speaking of Ontario specifically.

And a related question - how soon would you estimate, based on your research, Ontario will reach the testing levels per day/week that properly support a trustworthy 14 day decline?

Unfortunately you are immune to the facts and data, it is not my suggestion that a 14 day decline is important. Facts and data have shown us a 14 day cycle is associated with the Coronavirus (I've told you this 10's of times now and you still don't understand and try to question this important fact).
Unfortunately now for some of the same crowd "Open Businesses now" they are trying to question the amount of testing as a way to call into question the using of a 14 day decline of the number of confirmed cases.
It doesn't matter if you think the number of confirmed cases are not trustworthy in comparison to the testing as again that is a non factual feeling of yours. Canada's testing if not better than the very high majority of other nations is on par with the majority of other western nations who are fairly populated (excluding Germany), and Ontario is no different and I've posted this numerous times.

Unfortunately you don't like my posts because I called you out for using videos and articles and made posts that contained false or misleading information, and it shows with every single time you post.

My post was in response to one of the "open businesses ASAP" crowd who thinks we need to open businesses without having any measures in place. Opening businesses we need to see a 14 day decline in numbers, and having tracing and health measures in place. Here is my post:

This idea of ending lockdowns now without proper measures is the most ridiculous thing you post.
What Ontario and every province needs to do is see a 14 day significant decline in the number of new daily cases, as well we need to have strict tracing put in place prior to opening businesses and have already taken this measures with almost if not all of the cases prior to opening businesses. As well as the tracing measures being in place after businesses are allowed to open we should also have strict health measures in place if we want to be successful at limiting the spread of the virus to the lowest number possible after businesses open.

My above statement is based on the actual data and the facts and not on my feelings. Without having those measures in place we risk having just as bad or even more cases and further outbreak waves in the long run. You certainly sound like you're OK with that but I am certainly not, because in the long run if we have more outbreak waves the effects would be far worse on businesses than keeping them closed for an extra few days or even extra few weeks.

 

[bebe]

For the 14 day decline, the Government of Ontario seems to be taking the same approach as Quebec, both are removing the number of new cases found in LTCH's out of the equation as it skews the numbers. Keep in mind the Government has stepped up testing in the LTCH's to help that part of the population better.

More than half the States have started to reopen, pretty much all of Canada has started to reopen along with Europe etc., the number of new cases and the 14 day decline means nothing now as things need to restart.

Another way to look at the 14 day decline, is the overall number of new cases versus total number of cases. The % of new cases is on a downward trajectory (small numerator over an ever increasing denominator). The Governments will spin the story anyway they like as they all know that they need to reopen the World to trade.

 

[doggystyle99]

For the 14 day decline, the Government of Ontario seems to be taking the same approach as Quebec, both are removing the number of new cases found in LTCH's out of the equation as it skews the numbers. Keep in mind the Government has stepped up testing in the LTCH's to help that part of the population better.

More than half the States have started to reopen, pretty much all of Canada has started to reopen along with Europe etc., the number of new cases and the 14 day decline means nothing now as things need to restart.

Another way to look as the 14 day decline, is the overall number of new cases versus total number of cases. The % of new cases is on a downward trajectory (small numerator over an ever increasing denominator). The Governments will spin the story anyway they like as they all know that they need to reopen the World to trade.

It doesn't matter what certain States are doing or what other countries are doing. Countries in Europe are opening based on what they have done in the fight against the Coronavirus not based on what other countries are doing and we in Canada should be no different if we want to be successful in the fight against the Coronavirus and keeping future outbreak waves to a minimum.

For example France 14 days ago on April 18th had 3666 new cases, where today they only had 1050. That is a significant drop and what Canada or Ontario needs to wait for to open.

 

[G.D. Gentleman]

Unfortunately you are immune to the facts and data, it is not my suggestion that a 14 day decline is important. Facts and data have shown us a 14 day cycle is associated with the Coronavirus (I've told you this 10's of times now and you still don't understand and try to question this important fact).
Unfortunately now for some of the same crowd "Open Businesses now" they are trying to question the amount of testing as a way to call into question the using of a 14 day decline of the number of confirmed cases.
It doesn't matter if you think the number of confirmed cases are not trustworthy in comparison to the testing as again that is a non factual feeling of yours. Canada's testing if not better than the very high majority of other nations is on par with the majority of other western nations who are fairly populated (excluding Germany), and Ontario is no different and I've posted this numerous times.

Unfortunately you don't like my posts because I called you out for using videos and articles and made posts that contained false or misleading information, and it shows with every single time you post.

My post was in response to one of the "open businesses ASAP" crowd who thinks we need to open businesses without having any measures in place. Opening businesses we need to see a 14 day decline in numbers, and having tracing and health measures in place. Here is my post:

I don't like you because you're and arrogant ass who's full of himself and doesn't even realize when he writes in a 'better than thou' tone. But I'm still trying to have a conversation with you in these threads as you do at times share some good information and insights.

You also state and I quote:
I also have a lot of friends and family who operate small to medium sized very successful businesses as well in the GTA, and almost all that are shutdown except a couple are in agreement with that sentiment. I also have family members in the USA who operate very successful regional businesses/firms with one operating a national restaurant chain of 100+ locations and regardless of some states (Georgia, Tennessee) allowing them to reopen they've chosen to keep a lot of their locations closed for now as they feel the responsibility of not putting the communities at risk.

No, you don't have a lot, you just feel special. You know a few, maybe even a few hundred, out of the 400,000+ businesses in Ontario. So please, stop thinking your opinion is so high and mighty. Do not attempt to speak for the masses, you don't.

And once again, you cannot answer a simple question. So I will ask it again in a different format, perhaps you might actually answer the question in my post this time:

Do you consider the 12,000-15,000 tests per day Ontario is currently performing to be adequate to support observing trends and make decisions on? Or do you not have an opinion, shocking as that may be?

 

[G.D. Gentleman]

Doggystyle99:

As simple as I can ask on behalf of all the readers, based on all the research you have done:

How much longer should Ontario stay in lockdown before considering opening up, by your estimates, in your opinion?

2 weeks?
1 month?
2 months?
3 months?
Longer?

Let us know what the data is telling you, not your emotions, just the data.

 

[Smallcock]

The more people that get infected by covid, the better. Fortunately we're in the tens of millions of infected already.

 

[oil&gas]

The more people that get infected by covid, the better. Fortunately we're in the tens of millions of infected already.

So long as the elderly are well protected from infection
I am inclined to agree with you. More widespread infection
could expedite mutation to a less contagious form. Hopefully
this virus will just disappear like SARS.

 

[TeeJay]

Deaths in ON
0 if < 20
7 if 20-39
52 if 40-49
302 if 60-79
815 if 80+

Again
Old people die
People with weak immune systems die

The ravaged economic policy the Liberals insist on locking down will kill *millions* long term

eg 40,000 died due to poverty
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/com...illing_thousands_of_canadians_every_year.html
Pushing many more into this economic collapse practically ensures this number will double next year


Even if Covid kills 2000 a month it is killing less than poverty does

 

[Smallcock]

The flu is seasonal AND has a vaccine, yet it kills tens of thousands per year. This means that even though it has a tiny window each year to kill, it does so very successfully EVEN with a vaccine.

Covid is year-round, with no vaccine, and has killed barely more than the flu. In this context, the common flu is just as fatal if not deadlier than covid.

Yet here we are wearing masks, banned from sitting in parks, and social distancing lmao.

 

[canada-man]

There It Is: CDC Equates Coronavirus Hospitalizations to Seasonal Flu and Finally Admits It’s MUCH LESS Dangerous for Children

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...ingButtons&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

 

[doggystyle99]

I don't like you because you're and arrogant ass who's full of himself and doesn't even realize when he writes in a 'better than thou' tone. But I'm still trying to have a conversation with you in these threads as you do at times share some good information and insights.

You also state and I quote:
I also have a lot of friends and family who operate small to medium sized very successful businesses as well in the GTA, and almost all that are shutdown except a couple are in agreement with that sentiment. I also have family members in the USA who operate very successful regional businesses/firms with one operating a national restaurant chain of 100+ locations and regardless of some states (Georgia, Tennessee) allowing them to reopen they've chosen to keep a lot of their locations closed for now as they feel the responsibility of not putting the communities at risk.

No, you don't have a lot, you just feel special. You know a few, maybe even a few hundred, out of the 400,000+ businesses in Ontario. So please, stop thinking your opinion is so high and mighty. Do not attempt to speak for the masses, you don't.

And once again, you cannot answer a simple question. So I will ask it again in a different format, perhaps you might actually answer the question in my post this time:

Do you consider the 12,000-15,000 tests per day Ontario is currently performing to be adequate to support observing trends and make decisions on? Or do you not have an opinion, shocking as that may be?

I've already answered this question of yours in the previous post (and have posted numerous times about previously in numerous threads which you've read) you can read my previous post in this thread and if you still do not understand what my views are I'll clarify it for you with a simple Yes or No to your question.
As for my family and friends businesses you are right they are probably 100 or so and their opinions is a lot more valuable than yours.

Like I said the only reason you don't like my posts is because I showed your posts for what they are which is false and misleading information. But that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone when you've gone to lengths to post links from propaganda article and false websites multiple times such as the video and the other link you posted numerous times from uncoverdc.com

Doggystyle99:

As simple as I can ask on behalf of all the readers, based on all the research you have done:

How much longer should Ontario stay in lockdown before considering opening up, by your estimates, in your opinion?

2 weeks?
1 month?
2 months?
3 months?
Longer?

Let us know what the data is telling you, not your emotions, just the data.

When you say on behalf of all other readers you actually refer to the "open businesses ASAP" crowd, but like I've said before your views or questions are yours and not what all others views are, so asking questions on "behalf of all the readers" is quite presumptuous, and if you clearly read my previous post about the decline you would see the answer but again if you can't understand my previous response and need clarification on this I can provide you with a response. But first try to read and understand my response.