Blue Jays 2021

Toronto Passions

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...under different ownership and management. Not sure if the current group has the same mentality.
And I think this was at a time where Jose Canseco was the highest paid player in baseball at 5 mil per season. Lol.

Philip
 

shack

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Not sure either....Tampa has a lot of owners rethinking how to approach things. Mariners as well I figure.

And rightfully so. Hal Steinbrenner has said publicly many times that doesn't believe in the spending ways of the teams past.

But the Yankees are still 2nd overall at 203 mil.....See the Jays are 11th at 150 mil.

You did say that the Jays ownership has deep pockets. This off season we are about to find out just how deep....
...they are willing to dig. LOL

I still think with the way this country loves the Jays, any amount that they may go overbudget will easily be more than compensated with increased ticket sales, concessions at games, paraphernalia, viewership which also translates into higher advertising rates and whatever else I am leaving out.

In my non-professional opinion, it just seems to make economic sense.

Sign Ray and Semien and upgrade at 3rd which is traditionally a power position, just as 1st base is. With Espinal, Biggio is expendable and could bring a pretty good return in a trade.

Of the 3 youngsters that came up that we were hanging our hat on, Biggio is miles behind Vlad and Bo.

As Meatloaf sang:

 
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seagerbuzz

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Biggio has not lived up to expectations, I see Ray signing with the Yankees. The Jays need to extend Bo and Vladdy now to buy up some of their free agent years like the Braves did with Acuna and Albies.
I don't think the expectations were ever high on Biggio the way they are on Vladdy and Bo. He's a good utility player but I don't think the scouts or analysts ever saw him as a multi time all star.
 

The Oracle

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...

Sign Ray and Semien and upgrade at 3rd which is traditionally a power position, just as 1st base is. With Espinal, Biggio is expendable and could bring a pretty good return in a trade.

Of the 3 youngsters that came up that we were hanging our hat on, Biggio is miles behind Vlad and Bo.
I was thinking on this. And although 3rd is usually a power position as you say. With all the power they have up and down the lineup I figure a player like Espinal could be a good fit at third. He's hit for average at every level and gets a fair bit of doubles while walking at a decent clip. He seems to be a plus defender as well. Maybe not the prototypical third bagger but he intrigues me just the same. He also hustles out of the batters box on everything he hits.

I don't think Biggio's trade value is as high as you think. Moving him around so much hasn't helped him any I don't believe. That and injuries have thwarted his development. He's a good base runner and is patient at the dish though. 500 more at bats would give is more to evaluate him. It's just where does he get these at bats if they can keep the team in place.

These are good problems to have. Lot's of riches on this team. The future is bright in T.O.
 

The Oracle

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I don't think the expectations were ever high on Biggio the way they are on Vladdy and Bo. He's a good utility player but I don't think the scouts or analysts ever saw him as a multi time all star.
He did have that big year in New Hampshire in 2018. Hit 26 dingers and drove in 99 while walking a 100 times and stealing 20 bases. That's some impressive numbers at that level.
 

Toronto Passions

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I don't think the expectations were ever high on Biggio the way they are on Vladdy and Bo. He's a good utility player but I don't think the scouts or analysts ever saw him as a multi time all star.
In my dreams, he’s a 280 utility left handed bat that almost goes 30/30 every year. Then he walks to the Astros first chance he gets cuz daddy’s a GOD down there.

Philip
 

Toronto Passions

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...they are willing to dig. LOL

I still think with the way this country loves the Jays, any amount that they may go overbudget will easily be more than compensated with increased ticket sales, concessions at games, paraphernalia, viewership which also translates into higher advertising rates and whatever else I am leaving out.

In my non-professional opinion, it just seems to make economic sense.

Sign Ray and Semien and upgrade at 3rd which is traditionally a power position, just as 1st base is. With Espinal, Biggio is expendable and could bring a pretty good return in a trade.

Of the 3 youngsters that came up that we were hanging our hat on, Biggio is miles behind Vlad and Bo.

As Meatloaf sang:

2 out of 3 ain’t bad from the Bat Out Of Hell album. My first and favorite song when I was a pre-schooler. Lol. On my 45 record single playing on my lights flashing Micky Mouse player.

Philip
 

mandrill

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In my dreams, he’s a 280 utility left handed bat that almost goes 30/30 every year. Then he walks to the Astros first chance he gets cuz daddy’s a GOD down there.

Philip
Biggio = low average, low power, decent OBP due to his high # of walks, low OPS, low SB.

Was reported to have the "best eye for the strike zone" in the AL and that seemed accurate from what I saw of him. Far from being an automatic out because he walks so much; but won't drive much in.
 

Toronto Passions

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shack

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I was thinking on this. And although 3rd is usually a power position as you say. With all the power they have up and down the lineup I figure a player like Espinal could be a good fit at third.
Mainly if they retain Semien. Otherwise Espinal is better suited at second. IMO. Good average, doubles and athletic but little power sounds like a middle infielder. Don't get me wrong. I like him. He's impressed me. But if they lose Semien and are ready to be a serious contender, and not backslide they need good power at third to replace Semien's.



I don't think Biggio's trade value is as high as you think.
Which is another way of saying that he is not a core, everyday player. Good utility player? Possible. But if we're looking to be a serious contender we need a better, less fragile everyday player.

Go Yankees, go. (At least for one game anyway. LOL. (I f'ing hate those Bosox and their arrogant fans.)
 

mandrill

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Mainly if they retain Semien. Otherwise Espinal is better suited at second. IMO. Good average, doubles and athletic but little power sounds like a middle infielder. Don't get me wrong. I like him. He's impressed me. But if they lose Semien and are ready to be a serious contender, and not backslide they need good power at third to replace Semien's.
Which is another way of saying that he is not a core, everyday player. Good utility player? Possible. But if we're looking to be a serious contender we need a better, less fragile everyday player.

Go Yankees, go. (At least for one game anyway. LOL. (I f'ing hate those Bosox and their arrogant fans.)
Do yourself a favour and look down the roster of the Rays, B'sox and Yanks. There are zillions of low average, mediocre offensive players on those lineups. The current Jays have possibly the best offensive lineup I have ever seen. Espinal would fit in just fine with almost any other AL club.

Run production and offence is down a whole run every 9 innings in the last 10 years across MLB. Pitching is increasingly dominant. The leading RBI guys are hitting 15 or 20 less per season that 20 years ago. And Espinal is a decent, 2nd tier offensive player.
 

shack

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Do yourself a favour and look down the roster of the Rays, B'sox and Yanks. There are zillions of low average, mediocre offensive players on those lineups. The current Jays have possibly the best offensive lineup I have ever seen. Espinal would fit in just fine with almost any other AL club.
It soumds like you are saying that we should position ourselves to be slightly better than the opposition because of their weaknesses as opposed to seeing where we are and try to optimize it.

You may be correct but why not try to eliminate the margin of error for some unseen circumstances? If we lose Semien, why not directly compensate for his lack of production and leadership instead of saying, well, this should be good enough.
 

The Oracle

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Mainly if they retain Semien. Otherwise Espinal is better suited at second. IMO. Good average, doubles and athletic but little power sounds like a middle infielder. Don't get me wrong. I like him. He's impressed me. But if they lose Semien and are ready to be a serious contender, and not backslide they need good power at third to replace Semien's.
Geez with Vladdy, Springer, Bichette, Hernandez, Gurriel and Grichuk how many power hitters do you want? All these guys have 30+ home run capability. All these guys need table setters and that's what I see Espinal potentially being.

Go Yankees, go. (At least for one game anyway. LOL. (I f'ing hate those Bosox and their arrogant fans.)
There you go, lol.....

Red Sox fans took it on the chin for years so I give them their right to gloat.....

I hate the Sox with a passion but have mad respect for them at the same time. Especially this lot.

Alex Cora is a great manager.......Garbage can nonsense aside,lol.
 

shack

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Geez with Vladdy, Springer, Bichette, Hernandez, Gurriel and Grichuk how many power hitters do you want? All these guys have 30+ home run capability. All these guys need table setters and that's what I see Espinal potentially being.
So, try and get by with the minimal required and hope for no miscalculations or try to maximize what you already have and become even more formidable.?
 

spankingman

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I agree with what Charlie said in a pre-game interview. If they hadn't had to play in Dunedin,Buffalo this year it would have been a different season.A few more wins would have made a BIG difference at the end.
 

The Oracle

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Mar 8, 2004
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
So, try and get by with the minimal required and hope for no miscalculations or try to maximize what you already have and become even more formidable.?
Or take the money that Semien would have cost and invest it in pitching.......And that minimal that you call it is quite formidable.

Here's a question for ya........Marcus Stroman is a free agent and had a great year. Would you take a look at him?
 
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