He's been getting insane run support, but you cant refute a theory (or a general rule) by its exceptions
Blue Jays: 2015 edition
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For those who joined the thread in progress, this seems to have been the ignition point for the pitchers W/L part of the ongoing discussion
I stand by what I wrote.
I stand by what I wrote.
It isn't just the W/L it is everything whip era situational pitching consistency. No one is saying it doesn't have meaning, it is just it means a lot more when all the stats are excellent. Hutch vs Price is a great example.
Right, but my point has been all along that W/L record means a lot more than Costanza claims it does. By his own words he says it almost means nothing, which just isnt true
Would this work better for you, AK:
A pitcher's Win/Loss record is vastly overrated as a prime/key statistic for establishing a pitcher's worth.
It does however still have some value in determining said worth.
Hey, it's been a good day for Toronto sports fans. Jays win, Yankees lose, TFC wins too. :thumb:
With the bats already available I think not keeping Valencia and keeping Cola may have been the wrong decision. Either is fine but I think the bit of extra bat may not have been worth it compared to Valencia's versitility.
Here is hoping he doesn't come back to haunt us next week in Oakland.
Here is hoping he doesn't come back to haunt us next week in Oakland.
A different perspective.........sitting close to me was the family and girlfriend of the Twins pitcher tonite.........poor kid was pretty upset about her man getting crushed..........reminds us that there is a human side to the game beyond the field........watched her as Bautista rounded the bases..kinda sad
Hutch should buy dinner for his hitters every game he pitches. I think the most important stats for a pitcher is hits allowed. The least hits he allows the better he is a pitcher. Even a mediocre pitcher can win games when he gets 8.08 run support.
Here's some interesting numbers on season so far that shows limitations re. how wins / loses defines how good a pitcher is.
Drew Hutchison 10Wins 2 Loses 6.18 runs allowed per 9 innings pitched
David Price 10 Wins 4 Loses 2.98 runs allowed per 9 innings pitched
(Assuming my math is right.)
Drew Hutchison 10Wins 2 Loses 6.18 runs allowed per 9 innings pitched
David Price 10 Wins 4 Loses 2.98 runs allowed per 9 innings pitched
(Assuming my math is right.)
Most rational managers will pick David Price and pay him the $20 million a year.
Boyd's a fly ball pitcher , he'll do well in spacious Comerica Park. Probably wouldn't have survived long pitching at Skydome.
The one spec we traded at the deadline that I think will really hurt in a few years is Jacob Brentz. I'm keeping tabs on him.
With regards to a pitcher's W/L record as a measuring tool of a starter's worth , I've always put way more emphasis on WHIP.
If a guy is allowing a lot of base runners he's probably allowing a lot of runs , and throwing a lot of pitches which results in short outings , putting strain on the bullpen . Also puts more pressure on the offense. It's just bad for the team all around .
Here's the jays starters WHIP with American League ranking( only qualifying pitchers are ranked)
Price 1.08 (7th) ... elite , not far off from 1st
Estrada 1.11 (9th) ... Yes he's been THAT good.
Buerhle 1.17 (12th) ... like fine wine , getting better with age
Dickey 1.25 (25th) ... I would've guessed this was much worse but he's been on a roll lately
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Hutchison (46th)
Hutch is very lucky to have the run support he's had , he'd easily be 2-10 pitching for Tampa , they couldn't score at a high school prom. Give Clayton Kershaw 8 runs per game and he'll win 30 games every year
It gets even uglier for Hutch if you look at WAR value.
Yeah. Look at a guy like Buehrle. He manages to get by on barely more than 7 runs per game of support.
