Toronto Passions

Apple Recognizes Palestine

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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Sorry but you haven't responded to my points above, you are just a farting idiot with nothing to stay. Your post, a complete repetition of your previous post, without any indication that you even comprehended the reply, is just ignorant sputter. You don't win arguments by blindly repeating points that have been disputed, which is what you are doing. You are a hateful moron too stupid to figure out how to continue this discussion with facts and reasons.

Keep on hating Gryfin, nobody respects you.

The content you cannot reply to is in post #58 above you sputtering idiot.
Faced with two sources and direct quotes you still keep pretending that you are right.
Its really quite sad and the only option left is to keep posting the same quotes until you actually read them and understand them.

Upon entering the Town Hall meeting, they declared their inability to endorse the proposed truce agreement and requested the evacuation of Haifa's Arab citizen's (which in any case had been ongoing under duress the whole day) because of Stockwell's refusal to protect their lives and properties.
and once again, this is from the source that you supplied as your support
 

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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You plainly don't understand what you are reading.

Obviously if

a) The Palestinians refused to sign a truce (because they wanted that jurisdiction clause), and

b) The British weren't going to come running to help them

then clearly Haganah was going to execute a fully lawful attack on the militants garrisoning the town, in which attack the lives and properties of Palestinians would no doubt be put in danger, because that is more or less what happens when a city turns into a battlelfield--it becomes a dangerous place to be.

That, however, is not an ethnic cleansing unless you are so fucking stupid that you think any war in which civilians are hurt is an ethnic cleansing.

The key here is that they WERE willing to stay under a circumstance that they very clearly named.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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You plainly don`t understand what you are reading.

Obviously if

a) The Palestinians refused to sign a truce (because they wanted that jurisdiction clause), and

b) The British weren`t going to come running to help them

then clearly Haganah was going to execute a fully lawful attack on the militants garrisoning the town, in which attack the lives and properties of Palestinians would no doubt be put in danger, because that is more or less what happens when a city turns into a battlelfield--it becomes a dangerous place to be.

That, however, is not an ethnic cleansing unless you are so fucking stupid that you think any war in which civilians are hurt is an ethnic cleansing.

The key here is that they WERE willing to stay under a circumstance that they very clearly named.
Obviously you didn`t read the quote above.
Upon entering the Town Hall meeting, they declared their inability to endorse the proposed truce agreement and requested the evacuation of Haifa`s Arab citizen`s (which in any case had been ongoing under duress the whole day) because of Stockwell`s refusal to protect their lives and properties.
They declared their inability to endorse the proposed truce agreement because of Stockwell`s refusal to protect their lives and properties.

And this is what you once said about terrorism:
Terrorism, to me, is when you start killing ordinary, uninvolved, innocent civilians--people just trying to go about their lives who are not otherwise involved in the conflict.
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?403621-US-Israel-considering-joint-surgical-strike-on-Iran&p=4227588&viewfull=1#post4227588

This is what happened the day before:
The orders to the attacking units on 21 April were "to kill any Arab you encounter…set on fire all flammable objects…and force open doors with explosives". The Cormeli Brigade`s full force was unleashed on a civilian population of some 75,000 crowded into an area no more then 1.5 square kilometres. When the Haganah Command learned that the Arab authorities were calling upon the civilians to gather for shelter in the old market place, three-inch mortars, according to the official history of the Carmeli brigade, were ordered to shell the market place. "When the shelling began and shells fell inside the market a great panic ensued. The crowd broke into the port and pushing aside the police who guarded the gate it stormed the boats and began to flee the city."
Those were ordinary, uninvolved citizens who were killed in the market.
Terrorism by your own definition the day before they were to sign a `truce`.
They didn`t sign the truce because they feared for their lives and left in fear of their lives.
 

fuji

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They declared their inability to endorse the proposed truce agreement because of Stockwell's refusal to protect their lives and properties.
The article makes clear that their reason for not signing the truce was the lack of the jurisdiction clause. They make clear in other statements that they want to leave voluntarily because the British won't protect them from the Haganah attack.

The sentence you quoted is ambiguous in isolation, but not when it is put into the context of the whole article. You are reading the "because of Stockwell's refusal" as it it applies to both "inability to endorse" and to "requested the evacuation". The article makes it clear that they felt unable to sign the truce because they lacked authority to over-ride the jurisdiction clause. It also makes clear (they make clear in their own words) that they are requesting evacuation because of Stockwell's refusal to protect them from Haganah's attack.

It is completely illogical to say that they refused to sign a truce that would end the violence because they feared the violence, so misreading that single sentence in isolation that way is just fucking stupid. They make it clear, repeatedly, throughout the text, why they refused to sign.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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The article makes clear that their reason for not signing the truce was the lack of the jurisdiction clause. They make clear in other statements that they want to leave voluntarily because the British won't protect them from the Haganah attack.
Go ahead, provide the full context and quotes that prove your point.
We went down this road once before, and found you guilty of deliberately not quoting a full sentence.
Can't wait to see what evil you'll stoop to this time.
 

gryfin

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Aug 30, 2001
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Sorry but you haven't responded to my points above, you are just a farting idiot with nothing to stay. Your post, a complete repetition of your previous post, without any indication that you even comprehended the reply, is just ignorant sputter. You don't win arguments by blindly repeating points that have been disputed, which is what you are doing. You are a hateful moron too stupid to figure out how to continue this discussion with facts and reasons.

Keep on hating Gryfin, nobody respects you.

The content you cannot reply to is in post #58 above you sputtering idiot.
You keep backing yourself into the same corner, lickspittle:

"At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations." To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration". A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases...[78][79][80]

This obliterates your fiction.
 

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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Actually, the post above yours obliterates your point. We have the Haganah confessions.
Nope. As I pointed out there is no reason to think that Arabs leaving being caused by Haganah operations is anything other than Arabs refusing to live under Haganah jurisdiction.

Your are assuming stuff not in the text.
 

gryfin

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Aug 30, 2001
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Nope. As I pointed out there is no reason to think that Arabs leaving being caused by Haganah operations is anything other than Arabs refusing to live under Haganah jurisdiction.

Your are assuming stuff not in the text.
That's funny, I see 73% of departures directly caused by Israeli's. Another 22% departed as a result of fear. Only 5 % as a result of Arabs calls to leave.

Nowhere do I see Palestinians leaving simply because they refuse to live under Haganah jurisdiction - so who is assuming stuff not in the text?

Looks like case closed.
 

fuji

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It doesn't say that the Israelis evicted them or cleansed them. It says they left as a result of Israeli operations. That is pretty vague.

I would assume that means Israel captured the territory they lived in, and they decided they did not want to be part of Israel, so as a result of the operation they decided to leave.

That is exactly what happened in Haifa.

You certainly have no reason to make any other assumption. If you do not want to make any assumption you would say you do not know from that quote what about the Israeli action caused them to leave.
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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That's funny, I see 73% of departures directly caused by Israeli's. Another 22% departed as a result of fear. Only 5 % as a result of Arabs calls to leave.

Nowhere do I see Palestinians leaving simply because they refuse to live under Haganah jurisdiction - so who is assuming stuff not in the text?

Looks like case closed.
The really sad part is the ethnic cleansing is continuing today with the eradication of the Beduin's traditional homes and lands.
Its just been one continual process.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Yes that ethnic cleansing is continuing yet somehow the Arab population keeps going up. You figure with all the Nobel prizes won by Jews they'd at least be able to implement it if it was the plan.


Sort of like the few thousand Arabs you intentionally ignore that chose to stay in Haifa and were 'ethnically cleansed' by becoming Israeli citizens with full rights.
 

gryfin

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Aug 30, 2001
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It doesn't say that the Israelis evicted them or cleansed them. It says they left as a result of Israeli operations. That is pretty vague.

I would assume that means Israel captured the territory they lived in, and they decided they did not want to be part of Israel, so as a result of the operation they decided to leave.

That is exactly what happened in Haifa.

You certainly have no reason to make any other assumption. If you do not want to make any assumption you would say you do not know from that quote what about the Israeli action caused them to leave.
Lickspittle...stop painting yourself into a corner.

Let's go back to the Haganah confessions:

73% of Palestinian departures were caused by Israelis. There is nothing in there that says they left on their own volition. It says the opposite. The Israeli's caused them to leave.

There is no need to assume anything.

Looks like case closed.
 

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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Nope. As I pointed out there is no reason to think that Arabs leaving being caused by Haganah operations is anything other than Arabs refusing to live under Haganah jurisdiction.

Your are assuming stuff not in the text.
 

gryfin

New member
Aug 30, 2001
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Nope. As I pointed out there is no reason to think that Arabs leaving being caused by Haganah operations is anything other than Arabs refusing to live under Haganah jurisdiction.

Your are assuming stuff not in the text.
All sputter, no content.

We have the confession of the Haganah. It can't get any better than that.

Let's see what the Haganah says:

"73% of departures were caused by Israelis."

Confirmed. That means Israel was responsible for Palestinians leaving.
 

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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Is that your "strategy" now? Ignore what other people write, pretend you haven't been refuted, and mindlessly repaste debunked quotes over and over?

I guess your hate has led to a complete mental breakdown.

You have failed to respond to the points in post #58. But I guess you have nothing to lose by mindlessly repeating yourself after you have been debunked and refuted--you never had any credibility here anyway.
 

gryfin

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Aug 30, 2001
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Is that your "strategy" now? Ignore what other people write, pretend you haven't been refuted, and mindlessly repaste debunked quotes over and over?

I guess your hate has led to a complete mental breakdown.

You have failed to respond to the points in post #58. But I guess you have nothing to lose by mindlessly repeating yourself after you have been debunked and refuted--you never had any credibility here anyway.
Lets see what the Haganah confessed again:

"At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations." To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration". A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases...[78][79][80]

This completely obliterates your fiction. It confirms that an ethnic group, Palestinians, was caused to depart by Jewish terror groups. That's ethnic cleansing by any definition.
 
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