Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode

[richaceg]

Dumb assessment?
That's rich coming from someone who has been making painfully idiotic comments all morning.
To broker a peace deal Trump needs to bring something to the table.
Right now he brings nothing and he is mischaracterizing a protection racket as brokering a peace deal.
Rightfully Zelensky sees right through it and is standing his ground.

yes a dumb assessment...
Brokering a peace deal means, you are able to have a relationship to both parties and draft a resolution that could get both parties to agree with...being the POTUS is what he brings to the table...LoL. and Zelensky won't have a ground to stand on if US walks away...LoL

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

After this year do you think we can spend less money on national
defence against Russia than what it would have been without Trudeau's
military aid to Ukraine?

That's a good bunch of words.
But they dont convey any meaning.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

yes a dumb assessment...
Brokering a peace deal means, you are able to have a relationship to both parties and draft a resolution that could get both parties to agree with...being the POTUS is what he brings to the table...LoL.

Then I guess there is no reason to ask Zelensky to sign a mineral deal.

 

[Valcazar]

Well, if Zelensky wants US backing, it's not for free...Trump is mandated by people to fix the economy and he promised to cut costs...you think it's advisable for him to sign over billions of dollars and not get a deal? C'mon dude...you will be crying here that he's cutting USAID and then turn around and give Ukraine billions...Americans would be pissed if he just gives away tax money without getting a minerals deal...what part of that don't you get?

I do get it.
Trump is highly transactional and thinks the US should be paid protection money.

But clarify something for me.
At this point are you arguing Trump won't end the war without being paid (well, "act as a broker and see if Putin wants to end the war") or are you arguing that Trump is demanding money to pay for weapons, but still wants to end the war regardless?

 

[richaceg]

Then I guess there is no reason to ask Zelensky to sign a mineral deal.

If you're country is in a hole for 175B...maybe asked what the guy has to offer when he asks for another 100 billions? I mean, that's americans tax money, it probably won't fly if americans don't get something back.

 

[oil&gas]

That's a good bunch of words.
But they dont convey any meaning.

Here is a better bunch of words. Those billions of free money
given to Ukraine would serve our nation's security better if spent on
our own defence in the arctic against Russian aggression. We need
to purchase more submarines and fighter jets and we also can spend
more money to pay our troops good salaries.

 

[Valcazar]

Where did I say he has no ability to broker a deal? Of all the world leaders right now, who do you think has the ability to sit down with Putin? What I said was there is no guarantee a peace deal would be meet.

So Trump just wants a cut for something he can't promise to deliver on?
Or, as you have also hinted, the mineral deal is just to get something back for weapons and Trump will broker the peace regardless?
(i.e. If Zelensky doesn't sign, Trump sends no more weapons or aid but still brokers a peace deal.)

And any leader can sit down with Putin. Unless you are arguing that Putin will refuse to negotiate a deal with anyone but Trump there, no matter what they offer?

LoL...so tell me val, is the option fund Ukraine and fight Russia? US is already 175B in on that with abysmal results...keep funding? or have a sit down and see if peace can be achieved? what's your input?

People should absolutely have a sit down.
Are you arguing that the US should stop sending any aid to Ukraine and wipe its hands of the negotiation?
Are you arguing that the US should stop sending any aid to Ukraine but still negotiate a peace deal?
Are you saying that US should send more aid if Zelensky signs the deal, but also negotiate a peace deal?

This is the thing I've pointed out from the beginning - what do you think the link is between the peace negotiations and the minerals deal?

I mean, if your issue is with the 175Billion, then Trump just stops sending money and doesn't worry about the peace deal, right?
Just save the money if that's the only issue.

 

[richaceg]

I do get it.
Trump is highly transactional and thinks the US should be paid protection money.

But clarify something for me.
At this point are you arguing Trump won't end the war without being paid (well, "act as a broker and see if Putin wants to end the war") or are you arguing that Trump is demanding money to pay for weapons, but still wants to end the war regardless?

There won't be weapons needed if he's able to have both sides to come up with an agreement... no one can predict what's gonna happen here...the US are already out 175B and zelensky wants more...war is still going on...If US will able to partner with Ukraine on rare earth minerals, I mean, that probably make Russia think twice (not guaranteed) If that partnership means, there will be 2 or 3 aircraft carriers in the black sea (no troops on the ground) that would probably make Russia stop the offensive (no guarantees). Having the deal won't make it a "wasteful spending" now is it? you guys really just expect Trump to hand over more billions without a deal...if he does that...what's next for the left to whine about? that he's weak...and gave up easily and gave away billions of $$$...the US is bleeding $$$...wouldn't it be good to have a leader who doesn't throw away money?

 

[Valcazar]

Then I guess there is no reason to ask Zelensky to sign a mineral deal.

To be fair, Trump has already said there is no reason for Zelensky to be part of the negotiations at all.
Trump and Putin will decide what is fair and impose it on Zelensky.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Vance says Trump hasn't conceded anything to Putin

TikTok - Make Your Day

 

[The Mechanic]

Can someone explain to me why the media doesn’t pick up on this? Putin wants to take over Ukraine, Trump wants Canada to be the 51st state. Other than one uses force and the other one uses economic force, what’s the difference between the two to me they’re the same. Nowhere has the media picked up on this, probably give a pass to the America media they’re all scared for their jobs. Your thoughts.

 

[richaceg]

So Trump just wants a cut for something he can't promise to deliver on?
Or, as you have also hinted, the mineral deal is just to get something back for weapons and Trump will broker the peace regardless?
(i.e. If Zelensky doesn't sign, Trump sends no more weapons or aid but still brokers a peace deal.)

And any leader can sit down with Putin. Unless you are arguing that Putin will refuse to negotiate a deal with anyone but Trump there, no matter what they offer?



People should absolutely have a sit down.
Are you arguing that the US should stop sending any aid to Ukraine and wipe its hands of the negotiation?
Are you arguing that the US should stop sending any aid to Ukraine but still negotiate a peace deal?
Are you saying that US should send more aid if Zelensky signs the deal, but also negotiate a peace deal?

This is the thing I've pointed out from the beginning - what do you think the link is between the peace negotiations and the minerals deal?

I mean, if your issue is with the 175Billion, then Trump just stops sending money and doesn't worry about the peace deal, right?
Just save the money if that's the only issue.

well US could easily walk away too?
Of course Trump wants a cut for the US...that 175B is on Biden... it's quite obvious, 175B went to waste without the war ending...

If any leader can sit down with Putin...what the fuck was going on in the last 3 years?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

If you're country is in a hole for 175B...maybe asked what the guy has to offer when he asks for another 100 billions? I mean, that's americans tax money, it probably won't fly if americans don't get something back.

So basically Trump is a loan shark pushing a protection racket.
If they want minerals, then he has got to be able to ensure Ukraine's sovereignty by offering security guarantees. (aka a formal deal where America will militarily engage Russia if the latter were to invade).

 

[The Mechanic]

To be fair, Trump has already said there is no reason for Zelensky to be part of the negotiations at all.
Trump and Putin will decide what is fair and impose it on Zelensky.

To me that sounds like dictatorship, and didn’t Trump referred to Zelensky as a dictator? Now who's the DICK ator

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Here is a better bunch of words. Those billions of free money
given to Ukraine would serve our nation's security better if spent on
our own defence in the arctic against Russian aggression. We need
to purchase more submarines and fighter jets and we also can spend
more money to pay our troops good salaries.

It isn't free. But I agree with spending money on our self defense. That is sorely lacking.

 

[countd]

There won't be weapons needed if he's able to have both sides to come up with an agreement... no one can predict what's gonna happen here...the US are already out 175B and zelensky wants more...war is still going on...If US will able to partner with Ukraine on rare earth minerals, I mean, that probably make Russia think twice (not guaranteed) If that partnership means, there will be 2 or 3 aircraft carriers in the black sea (no troops on the ground) that would probably make Russia stop the offensive (no guarantees). Having the deal won't make it a "wasteful spending" now is it? you guys really just expect Trump to hand over more billions without a deal...if he does that...what's next for the left to whine about? that he's weak...and gave up easily and gave away billions of $$$...the US is bleeding $$$...wouldn't it be good to have a leader who doesn't throw away money?

There won't be any aircraft carriers in the Black Sea, They would have to be there for at least ten years. The U.S will be cutting military spendind after Musk gets finished with his chainsaw!

 

[Valcazar]

There won't be weapons needed if he's able to have both sides to come up with an agreement...

But until there is an agreement, they keep fighting, right?
Or is part of your plan "Ukraine should lay down all arms and surrender until Trump and Putin come up with a deal"?

no one can predict what's gonna happen here...the US are already out 175B and zelensky wants more...war is still going on...

Again.
Is this a payment to keep weapons flowing or a payment to negotiate a peace deal?
I keep asking and you keep not answering, just talking about how much money is owed.
Is this a payment to pay back the previous arms?

Until you answer what Zelensky is actually paying Trump for here, I'm afraid you are going to find my answers frustrating.

If US will able to partner with Ukraine on rare earth minerals, I mean, that probably make Russia think twice (not guaranteed)

Why?
Do you even know what the rare earth deal is?
What's in the agreement?

Why would that make Russia "think twice"?
Unless you are saying that Trump is offering to fight Russia for the minerals?

If that partnership means, there will be 2 or 3 aircraft carriers in the black sea (no troops on the ground) that would probably make Russia stop the offensive (no guarantees).

So you think Trump should escalate the war by sending aircraft carriers over and confronting Russia directly?
And that the rare earth minerals deal is just cover for the excuse of spending more military assets in the region and increasing US involvement?
Interesting.
If Russia knows that the US is likely to attack in response to any future aggression by Russia, then Russia will back down.

Interesting.

Having the deal won't make it a "wasteful spending" now is it? you guys really just expect Trump to hand over more billions without a deal...if he does that...what's next for the left to whine about? that he's weak...and gave up easily and gave away billions of $$$...the US is bleeding $$$...wouldn't it be good to have a leader who doesn't throw away money?

I know you are obsessed with money, but do you really think this rare earth minerals deal is worth enough to justify all the spending that maintaining two or three aircraft carriers over to police the black sea indefinitely is worth?
Taking a more direct confrontational posture with Russia and increasing the US defense spending in order to escalate tensions?

Seems risky.

 

[oil&gas]

............................................
Are you arguing that the US should stop sending any aid to Ukraine and wipe its hands of the negotiation?
Are you arguing that the US should stop sending any aid to Ukraine but still negotiate a peace deal?
Are you saying that US should send more aid if Zelensky signs the deal, but also negotiate a peace deal?
.....................................

I think the mineral deal was meant to smooth things out
for the U.S. to cut a deal with Putin. Putin seeing that U.S.
mining engineers pouring into Ukraine would have to realize
further advancement of Russian armies would better halt
at some point. Putin would not hesitate to have captured foreign
mercenaries fighting alongside Ukrainians executed immediately.
But he has to be a fool to allow Russian troops to wipe out a
U.S. controlled mines run by American miners.

 

[countd]

Trump has already said Europeans would have to provide security.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Bill Clinton interview from 10 years ago.
He says that Putin never reneged on any deals he made

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMBJQdnoE/